Drug pushers pushing on SP's

[fuji]

The weak and vunerable shouldn't be in this industry...this is for the head strong.

How are you proposing to change that?

Because certainly in my experience while I have met a good number of smart, strong willed SP's, I've also met a bunch who were plainly young women still trying to figure things out.

Certainly when I visit an SP I absolutely do assess her mood and feelings and do not push her into doing something she's uncomfortable with, simply out of basic respect for a fellow human being. It's important to me that the transaction be a win-win for both parties. I am not there, perhaps unlike you, only to "climb on an get you moneys worth" which I guess to you means pushing for the maximum number of services without any regard whether or not the SP is happy to provide them.

In the context of hard drugs, I guess pushing an SP who is not comfortable giving a BBBJ to give one is pretty much the equivalent of pushing her to do hard drugs with you when she doesn't want to. The consequences are a bit different, though, she'll probably get over giving the BBBJ without any ill effects, but may wind up addicted to the drugs you pushed on her. That said, there's little difference in the fact that either way you're abusing your position and basically failing to cut it as a decent human being.

And again, I think in an *incall* situation SP's are generally slightly more empowered to set their own ground rules, in a way that they are not when they arrive on your home turf and potentially "join your party" which already has certain expectations.

Plainly there is an important role for agency owners here, in making sure that new SP's feel empowered to say "no", and are made to understand that it's OK to piss off a client who asks for something they don't want to provide, that there are other clients, and that it's not a big deal.

 

[Brill]

The average person can be influenced or subtly coerced easily, an escort wants to be social and agreeable. It might be a weakness and makes her vulnerable but we should look out for them instead of encouraging them with drugs or alcohol to release their inhibitions.
Should they be head strong? Sure, but if they aren't it doesn't necessarily mean they shouldn't be in the business.

 

[miles@divas]

How are you proposing to change that?

Because certainly in my experience while I have met a good number of smart, strong willed SP's, I've also met a bunch who were plainly young women still trying to figure things out.
Certainly when I visit an SP I absolutely do assess her mood and feelings and do not push her into doing something she's uncomfortable with, simply out of basic respect for a fellow human being. It's important to me that the transaction be a win-win for both parties. I am not there, perhaps unlike you, only to "climb on an get you moneys worth" which I guess to you means pushing for the maximum number of services without any regard whether or not the SP is happy to provide them.

In the context of hard drugs, I guess pushing an SP who is not comfortable giving a BBBJ to give one is pretty much the equivalent of pushing her to do hard drugs with you when she doesn't want to. The consequences are a bit different, though, she'll probably get over giving the BBBJ without any ill effects, but may wind up addicted to the drugs you pushed on her. That said, there's little difference in the fact that either way you're abusing your position and basically failing to cut it as a decent human being.

And again, I think in an *incall* situation SP's are generally slightly more empowered to set their own ground rules, in a way that they are not when they arrive on your home turf and potentially "join your party" which already has certain expectations.

Plainly there is an important role for agency owners here, in making sure that new SP's feel empowered to say "no", and are made to understand that it's OK to piss off a client who asks for something they don't want to provide, that there are other clients, and that it's not a big deal.

I bet you had sex with the ones who where "still trying to figure things out" anyways.

 

[kono]

Serendipity, you won? It's a difference of opinion. There's no right or wrong. I agree with some of your points but I also disagree with a lot of your points also.

I'm surprised how many people on here assume that these girls know how to say no to a drug “pusher” . Not all girls are strong willed especially fresh out of high school.
Here's a scenario for you - Let's say you're recruiting a bunch of girls (high school graduates) for a ski team. Now you'll have girls from a broad range of experience who will try out. Some may have never skied before but they’ve always wanted to learn, you’ll have some who think they're amazing but they're not. You have some that are intermediate and then finally you have some who are experts skiers. These girls can anticipate every bum and turn before it even comes at them.
So to assume that these girls know how to say no it's stupid. Easier said than done. These drugs dealers can be very intimidating and persuasive. A million things will run through her head. Will I get bad reviews, will he hurt me, will I see him again, what if I just try it this one time just to shut him up, maybe it won’t be so bad.... etc
You could also take it from a different approach – Dealer - "These drugs aren't as bad as what people say they are, you should try it I promise you'll like it. If you don't I'll give you your money back". There's all kinds of ways to manipulate the situation. Bottom line is don't assume these girls fresh out of high school know how to say no. It’s not as cut and dry and you may think. That’s my opinion

 

[Serendipity]

It's obviously "On like Donkey Kong" with you Mr. Fuji.....

Mr. Fuji - just so we are all clear then.....at what age is someone PERSONALY RESPONSIBILE for their OWN CHOICES AND/OR ACTIONS? 18? 19? 20? 21? 22? 23? 24? 25? 26? 27? 28? 29? 30? 31? Is it different if you work at another job or career?

It is a difference of opinion Mr. Fuji and I strongly feel that ANYONE who pays for sex (most likely behind the back of their spouse, child(ren), family, etc. is no better than the drug pusher, the user, the alcoholic - all are scum in the majority of socities eyes. If you disagree then try telling someone about your secret life, what happens when you play and with who.

If you don't have the balls to do that then just take a hard long look in the mirror and ponder if you would be loved, respected for your secret personal, playtime stress relief sessions.

You believe your lies and are in denial. Just as much denial as the alcoholic or drug user.

 

[Serendipity]

Man in the Mirror Mr. Fuji.....Man in the Mirror brother....why don't you start with him??

 

[kono]

Serendipity

I don't understand why you're at Fuji's throat? So he has a different opinion from yours so what!
BTW not all of us on here are married and have girl Friend's. I'm actually single by choice.

 

[Ladyraven]

Serendipity, you won? It's a difference of opinion. There's no right or wrong. I agree with some of your points but I also disagree with a lot of your points also.

I'm surprised how many people on here assume that these girls know how to say no to a drug “pusher” . Not all girls are strong willed especially fresh out of high school.
Here's a scenario for you - Let's say you're recruiting a bunch of girls (high school graduates) for a ski team. Now you'll have girls from a broad range of experience who will try out. Some may have never skied before but they’ve always wanted to learn, you’ll have some who think they're amazing but they're not. You have some that are intermediate and then finally you have some who are experts skiers. These girls can anticipate every bum and turn before it even comes at them.
So to assume that these girls know how to say no it's stupid. Easier said than done. These drugs dealers can be very intimidating and persuasive. A million things will run through her head. Will I get bad reviews, will he hurt me, will I see him again, what if I just try it this one time just to shut him up, maybe it won’t be so bad.... etc
You could also take it from a different approach – Dealer - "These drugs aren't as bad as what people say they are, you should try it I promise you'll like it. If you don't I'll give you your money back". There's all kinds of ways to manipulate the situation. Bottom line is don't assume these girls fresh out of high school know how to say no. It’s not as cut and dry and you may think. That’s my opinion

You do make it sound like almost every guy that see's a SP is a pusher.. well in all my time I have been a SP I have never had 1 person try to push drugs on me.. ask me if I were 420 friendly and when I say no they are fine with it .. I do not really think that there are as many *drug pushers* as you seem to think..And anyone fresh out of highschool should not be getting involved in this industry right away at all.. and not all fresh out of highschool girls are legal.. 15 year olds do drop out.. so I hope to god no one is seeing them

 

[miles@divas]

420?

 

[genintoronto]

You do make it sound like almost every guy that see's a SP is a pusher.. well in all my time I have been a SP I have never had 1 person try to push drugs on me.. ask me if I were 420 friendly and when I say no they are fine with it .. I do not really think that there are as many *drug pushers* as you seem to think..And anyone fresh out of highschool should not be getting involved in this industry right away at all.. and not all fresh out of highschool girls are legal.. 15 year olds do drop out.. so I hope to god no one is seeing them

Really? You and I have a very different experience. I've been offered to do a line (or more) way more often in the context of escorting than I've ever been in my "civilian" life. It actually wasn't rare at all for me to be offered some sort of hard shit when I was working outcall with an agency. Not so much with incalls, and rarely anymore, but probably in large part because I see few new clients, and because I filter the shit out of potential new clients.

I'm way too much of a control freak to find any appeal in those drugs, and I've always been in a position to relatively easily say no, refuse a client or walk out of a call, but it's not difficult for me to understand how many women put in a similar situation can find it difficult to say no. Especially since, in my experience, the offers aren't rare at all, and from what I can tell, there's a lot of money to be made (at least before an addiction starts eating up all your revenu) for a woman who is willing to "party".

I wouldn't call those clients "drug pushers" though (which implies that they have a financial stake in offering drugs). Maybe some are, but in my experience, most seemed to simply be very successful guys, with lots of money, and with expensive hobbies and a taste for partying hard. Sex, drugs and rock and roll and all that.

 

[fuji]

Mr. Fuji - just so we are all clear then.....at what age is someone PERSONALY RESPONSIBILE for their OWN CHOICES AND/OR ACTIONS?

At the same age as you are PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for your behavior if you go around pushing people to do hard drugs they otherwise don't want to do.

Does the girl have some responsibility for not taking a stronger stand in saying no? Absolutely. But that does not get you off the hook for pushing her into it. You have responsibility too there, for your act of pushing.

And again, taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture simple common sense tells us that some girls are susceptible to this, and no amount of you ideologizing about personal responsibility is going to change that basic fact.

I would suggest that in the future when you find your ideology is contradicted by common sense and basic fact that you should try to adjust the ideology rather than trying to adjust the facts.

 

[afterhours]

What do I have left other than altering my mind and getting high on drugs?

Well without getting to personal I can't tell you about my hobbies and past times because the combination is pretty unique and some of them are higher profile and could identify me. Plenty of them are simply incompatible with drug use. And my social circle is so far away from the low life drug use culture that I would be ostracized if it was a part of my life.

I call bullshit on many levels
1. fucking whores presumably is part of your life and your social circle is fine with it
2. Keith Richards and Mick Jagger somehow manage to not get ostracized for their drug use, but your highness would be?
etc etc

 

[Who's That Girl?]

I've known about this problem for a while now but it just hit me when I spoke to one of my close friend's who works in the industry. This has happened to her on several occasion where one of her client's tried to push drugs on her.
Get her hooked and now she's a slave to the drug/s.
That's great for the client because now he only has to pay her drugs.
These people sicken me! They have no respect for human life or dignity. Think about it. You get someone hooked on heavy drugs and they're F-ed quite possibly for life. And it's almost an impossible hole to dig yourself out of.
I can think of a few high profile EE girls who've had to deal with these issues and are still fighting the addiction. And PLEASE don't name names here. this is just a general thread regarding drug pushers. I just want people's opinion and or experiences on the matter. Personally, I would like to see this industry drugs free (Heavy drugs). It ruins people lives! But that's wishful thinking I guess. For SP's on here who are new to the biz, don't let these guys persuade you into taking drugs because it won't end good.

I think its the other way around, some girls start working because they are already hooked on something. Some get into drugs once into the business because so many clients are doing it and want them to as well! Of course most smart girls will decline, but it doesn't help when agencies supply clients like some shady party agencies here in Toronto...

 

[SS Sharla]

I think the OP here was talking about real "pushers", not just "hey we are all at a good party so you want to try some of this shit". Real "pushers" sit outside of rehab centers and blow the smoke in your face as you walk by on your weekly out time. Real "pushers" find girls on the streets who have $0 and give them a place to live for a week and then call in the favor by bringing their buddies over to gangbang her or throw her out on the street and then offer her some oxy for her aching jaw. They pray on people in harsh situations. Situations that the people sitting in nice homes behind $1000 computers don't understand.

I have met people like this. No they never got advantage over me, but had I been in the same life situation as someo of the people they target I can't say whether I would have faired so well. People have choices indeed. But "pushers" do exist.

In many cases they look for girls that are already addicted and feed them drugs worth $20 and take their $200 session money. The girl is too young and doesn't understand the cost of drugs or how much men pay for a session with her. She doesn't know how to rent a place with no credit or anyone to help her leave this situation.

Are these the people we are defending, just for the sake of having an arguement. Of course some of you have never incountered people like this. Because you are older, stable, non addicted, have a home, have at least one friend in the world . . . not everyone is so lucky and they are the ones that meet these "pushers".

 

[kono]

That's is true and I'm sure you see it more then most being an agency and all. But there are also girl who get into the biz who are drug free and get hooked. And who's to say that these girls who were addicts didn't get into drugs when they first got into the biz. By that I mean before they walked in your doors?

SS Starta

What's people definition of a "Pusher"? I've always thought it was someone who persuades you to take drugs. So it could be a dealer, a co-worker, and friends etc..
Your co-workers and friends won't push as hard as a drug dealer but more of a nudge.
Example
Friend - "Hey man, I just bought some coke from this guy and you should totally do a rail/bump with me" There's some preasure there. Maybe not the same as a drug dealer but pressure none the less. I dunno maybe I'm over analyzing things? Maybe I should have changed the headin to Pushers and Nudgers?

 

[Serendipity]

At the same age as you are PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for your behavior if you go around pushing people to do hard drugs they otherwise don't want to do.

Does the girl have some responsibility for not taking a stronger stand in saying no? Absolutely. But that does not get you off the hook for pushing her into it. You have responsibility too there, for your act of pushing.

And again, taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture simple common sense tells us that some girls are susceptible to this, and no amount of you ideologizing about personal responsibility is going to change that basic fact.

I would suggest that in the future when you find your ideology is contradicted by common sense and basic fact that you should try to adjust the ideology rather than trying to adjust the facts.

Well I am not a pusher, nor an alcoholic.....I am very much like Mr. Fuji......a scumball who likes to enjoy some stress relief with some very pretty, fun, sexy girls. Like you, I cloak my actions to by lying what I am doing, with whom and what I like to do with them. Unlike you I am man enough to admit I am a scumball for doing this and realize I have NO RIGHT TO think I am better than anyone else who plays in this world.

And again, "taking a simple step back" I do know we are all scum though.....we pay $$$$ to play and satisfy our shelfish urges.......all the while people starve, are homeless, etc. Common sense would tell us this right Fuji?

You somehow believe ALL the lies you tell yourself and/or loved ones. Is it that easy for you to pretend to be a righteous loving husband, father, member of socitey?

MAN IN THE MIRROR FUJI! MAN IN THE MIRROR!!

Start with yourself if you really want to change the world Fuji.

"People in glass house shouldn't throw stones"

 

[Serendipity]

Serendipity

I don't understand why you're at Fuji's throat? So he has a different opinion from yours so what!
BTW not all of us on here are married and have girl Friend's. I'm actually single by choice.

Simply because he is a classic hypocrite who is no better than the subject he critiques. He makes excuses for everyone that chooses not to use their own FREE WILL. I am simply sick of people that refuse to own up to their own life choices/actions, the shit they get themselves into and people who enable them.

 

[SS Sharla]

Oh sorry Kono I was trying to back you up, because I thought you were talking about "pushers" in the street slang sense. People who take advantage of the worst situations in order to make money off of young girls by feeding them drugs and keeping them too incohearant to fight back or leave the situation.

If you just mean girls who are in the business by their own means and have people asking them to party - that is going to happen and they need to take a stance on not being under the influence as it effects their service level and safety. Being offered is different than being taken advantage of.

 

[fuji]

Serendipity I don't know what your issue is--you want to change the topic to avoid the issue huh? Have we now agreed that guys who push drugs on escorts bear some responsibility for that?

As for your ideological diatribe against cheating, I don't share your ideology. I've posted on this before, it generates a long debate. You don't agree with my view--that's fine, but I think you're wrong.

Specifically here is where I think you are wrong: Your notion that you cannot be both a loving husband, father, member of society, AND engage in sexual cheating--you are wrong, you can be all those things. I believe our moral codes are pretty well defined when it comes to interactions between people at arms length. And for certain things, like violence or otherwise forcibly controlling people, well defined even for people who are not at arms length. When it comes to sexual behavior, though, a whole world of complexity enters into the question that I simply don't think our moral codes have figured out.

In an abstract philosophical sense I think we are direct products of sexual behavior in such a fundamental way that it's beyond our ability to comprehend it. A kind of Godel incompleteness, of the "a program cannot prove it's correct" sort. We are so fundamentally sexual in our nature, that we cannot possibly craft a moral code that fully covers what is or isn't proper or correct sexual behavior. We just don't understand ourselves that well, and probably can't. Evolution is in full force most especially around sex, it's the driving point of it. There is so much complexity, change, and adaptation in this area that it's a mug's game to try and apply black and white morality here. This sort of intrinsic complexity does NOT enter in the same way to most moral questions in quite the way it does in this area.

In short, I don't agree that it's wrong. You think it is, and that's fine--but I think you've limited yourself by thinking that.

 

[Wizard Merlin]

Serendipity I don't know what your issue is--you want to change the topic to avoid the issue huh? Have we now agreed that guys who push drugs on escorts bear some responsibility for that?

As for your ideological diatribe against cheating, I don't share your ideology. I've posted on this before, it generates a long debate. You don't agree with my view--that's fine, but I think you're wrong.

Specifically here is where I think you are wrong: Your notion that you cannot be both a loving husband, father, member of society, AND engage in sexual cheating--you are wrong, you can be all those things. I believe our moral codes are pretty well defined when it comes to interactions between people at arms length. And for certain things, like violence or otherwise forcibly controlling people, well defined even for people who are not at arms length. When it comes to sexual behavior, though, a whole world of complexity enters into the question that I simply don't think our moral codes have figured out.

In an abstract philosophical sense I think we are direct products of sexual behavior in such a fundamental way that it's beyond our ability to comprehend it. A kind of Godel incompleteness, of the "a program cannot prove it's correct" sort. We are so fundamentally sexual in our nature, that we cannot possibly craft a moral code that fully covers what is or isn't proper or correct sexual behavior. We just don't understand ourselves that well, and probably can't. Evolution is in full force most especially around sex, it's the driving point of it. There is so much complexity, change, and adaptation in this area that it's a mug's game to try and apply black and white morality here. This sort of intrinsic complexity does NOT enter in the same way to most moral questions in quite the way it does in this area.

In short, I don't agree that it's wrong. You think it is, and that's fine--but I think you've limited yourself by thinking that.

totally agree with you.

Serendipity can characterize all hobbyists as scumballs, but I'll take exception to that. There are many reasons why men hobby, Maybe Serendipity is a typical scumbag, but some of us aren't.

He also obviously doesn't want to acknowledge the power of external pressures and manipulations against even strong willed people never mind vulnerable young SP's with money dangled in front of their eyes.

In his view if you aren't a saint don't judge any evil. How convenient...