I'm sorry, but this is a very bad practice—and quite unsafe—that Toronto's 4way red traffic lights have encouraged over the years.
NO one should move into an intersection unless and until the way is clear to leave it on the other side. Not ever.
Driving peeves
- Thread starter Worf
- Start date
NO one should move into an intersection unless and until the way is clear to leave it on the other side. Not ever.
Actually, you aren't quite correct there OJ. If take any drivers ed course they will tell you stop at the line, proceed into the intersection in preparation to make your turn and stop if it is unsafe to proceed. Then complete your turn when it is safe to do so. What you CANNOT do is enter the intersection after the light has changed to amber or red......(except on a one way to one way street).
What IS unsafe is to have your wheels cranked left. If you should get hit from behind from another vehicle that vehicle will push you into oncoming traffic. You should keep your wheels straight so if it does happen, it will just push you straight through.....
Disagree. You only stop at the stop line if there is a Stop sign or a traffic light in it's amber or red phase. Since you stop and stay stopped for both of those (and merrily make your turn without stopping at an uncontrolled intersection) then you must be talking about that stop sign situation. And the rule is that you stay stopped until the way is clear for you to procede.
What you do when making a left turn with a green light is not move into an intersection unless and until the way is clear to leave it on the other side. You do that at a stop line because that's where the intersection begins. But IF the way forward is safe, you make that left turn without stopping. If you did, you'd likely be creamed from behind and demonstrate that DO NOT crank your wheels is a good rule.
I cannot speak for all driver's ed courses; my son's instructor in the course he recently took said 'everyone pulls into the intersection and waits. No one should. You shouldn't either'. What I have seen countless times is an intersection snarled after the lights changed, because some bozo with a left signal flashing drove into the middle of it and parked, as if a break in traffic would come just for him, knowing the only guaranteed break will be against the light after it goes red.
And in all honesty I must concede this is sometimes a 'do as I say, not as I do' situation.
My Personal Peeves: Are both bad lane changes. Guys turning left who think it's OK to switch lanes during the turn so they can finish in the right lane (and pass on the right to boot). And guys who start up from a parked postion and try to move into traffic without ever a signal. Both of them make me wish for the Bondmobile with the blade equipped hubcaps.
What you do when making a left turn with a green light is not move into an intersection unless and until the way is clear to leave it on the other side. You do that at a stop line because that's where the intersection begins. But IF the way forward is safe, you make that left turn without stopping. If you did, you'd likely be creamed from behind and demonstrate that DO NOT crank your wheels is a good rule.
I cannot speak for all driver's ed courses; my son's instructor in the course he recently took said 'everyone pulls into the intersection and waits. No one should. You shouldn't either'. What I have seen countless times is an intersection snarled after the lights changed, because some bozo with a left signal flashing drove into the middle of it and parked, as if a break in traffic would come just for him, knowing the only guaranteed break will be against the light after it goes red.
And in all honesty I must concede this is sometimes a 'do as I say, not as I do' situation.
My Personal Peeves: Are both bad lane changes. Guys turning left who think it's OK to switch lanes during the turn so they can finish in the right lane (and pass on the right to boot). And guys who start up from a parked postion and try to move into traffic without ever a signal. Both of them make me wish for the Bondmobile with the blade equipped hubcaps.
The operative word there is "should", that indicates a personal opinion not a fact. If you say no one "should" pull into an intersection you have to assume it is for safety reasons. Then by that logic (because of the safety factor) no one "should" drive due to the dangers of doing so. To extrapolate that logic, no one "should" leave their house due to the possible dangers and for that matter no one "should" live in a highrise due to the fire hazards and for that matter, no one "should".......get where I'm going with this?
See, the thing about those lines at intersections: they are designated so that you stop there on a red or an amber. NOT on a green. If the light is green you proceed to make your manouver, whether it be driving straight through or a turn) and then stop if and when it isn't safe to proceed. If the intersection is blocked, then no, you shouldn't pull into it and cause more of a log jam, but to naturally assume that you won't be able to make the turn during the course of the green would cause a traffic jam for miles.
(but this is another example of why roundabouts are THE way to go and for that matter, secondary turn streets NOT at major intersections is a underutilized concept. This is where you cannot make any turns at a given intersection but use a side street 1/2 block before or after the intersection). If you know the bloor and church intersection there is a small side street just east of church, north off bloor. If you have to turn North or South on Church, you turn down this small side street and 9 times out of 10, you can complete the turn without having to pause for traffic. This is easy to do because the majority of pedestrian traffic is due to the office building on the corner of Bloor and Church. 1/2 block away, very little pedestrian traffic. It is rare to be able to make a right turn there without having to stop for the entire light due to pedestrians.....
See, the thing about those lines at intersections: they are designated so that you stop there on a red or an amber. NOT on a green. If the light is green you proceed to make your manouver, whether it be driving straight through or a turn) and then stop if and when it isn't safe to proceed. If the intersection is blocked, then no, you shouldn't pull into it and cause more of a log jam, but to naturally assume that you won't be able to make the turn during the course of the green would cause a traffic jam for miles.
(but this is another example of why roundabouts are THE way to go and for that matter, secondary turn streets NOT at major intersections is a underutilized concept. This is where you cannot make any turns at a given intersection but use a side street 1/2 block before or after the intersection). If you know the bloor and church intersection there is a small side street just east of church, north off bloor. If you have to turn North or South on Church, you turn down this small side street and 9 times out of 10, you can complete the turn without having to pause for traffic. This is easy to do because the majority of pedestrian traffic is due to the office building on the corner of Bloor and Church. 1/2 block away, very little pedestrian traffic. It is rare to be able to make a right turn there without having to stop for the entire light due to pedestrians.....
Very true. Some 16 year old girl got killed a few years ago making a left turn to her friends house. She was a new driver and I guess was waiting for all the traffic to clear when some jerk rear ended her car and pushed it in to oncoming traiffc and was killed!
Drivers who think they have more entitlement to the road than everyone else...
Seriously though, Cyclists have just as much "right" to be there, unless its a 400 series highway, in which case it is not only illegal for cyclists... but just farkin stupid for them to try it!
Wrong Go into the intersection to await your left turn
Do not follow someone else into the intersection until clear . One vehicle at a time
If no one went into the intersection, then there may very well be no left turn, since on a busy street, the only way you sometimes get to turn left is if you are already in the intersection.
How about people who don't use indicators at all. Those who just go from lane to lane without letting you know what they are doing.
B
burt-oh-my!
Oh c'mon, any busy traffic intersection you would NEVER MAKE THE TURN THAT WAY! The drivers across from you going straight are going to be solid all the way until the light turns yellow, then 1 or 2 are going to run the yellow light. meanwhile, YOU HAVEN'T EVEN ENTERED THE INTERSECTION, RIGHT? Only AFTER that ( and by then the light is red) can you go through?
You said as much yourself, "knowing the only guaranteed break will be against the light after it goes red." Well if THEY ( the guys who head out into the intersection) snarl the traffic, how the hell is the guy who hasn't even started across yet ever going to make it?
In Ontario, if the light is green, you go into the intersection and get ready to make your left turn, lined up for the proper receiving lane. The green light is the equivalent of having an open road while it is green.
In a big intersection, there's room for a couple of cars to line up for the turn. That's legal, I believe. What's not legal is entering the intersection after the light turns red.
Some jurisdictions have anti-gridlock rules. (Not sure about Ontario.) Ie if traffic is backed up in your destination lane, do not proceed into the intersection until traffic is clear. This may be tripping some people up. The difference here is that you're waiting for oncoming traffic to clear, not for congestion to clear in your destination lane.
People who don't signal nor look when changing lanes.
People who 80 on the 401. On the left lane.
People who merge on to highways at 60kmh.
Road signs so small you can't read them.
Those signs that say, "No turning left between 6-8:00am." Again, because they are usually small. And, whenever I see them, the sunlight is usually shining in my eyes, making them even harder to notice.
Drivers who won't go at a four way stop, even when it is their turn to go.
People who 80 on the 401. On the left lane.
People who merge on to highways at 60kmh.
Road signs so small you can't read them.
Those signs that say, "No turning left between 6-8:00am." Again, because they are usually small. And, whenever I see them, the sunlight is usually shining in my eyes, making them even harder to notice.
Drivers who won't go at a four way stop, even when it is their turn to go.
No. The four-way red is there precisely to allow cars who have moved into the intersection to clear it. Every advanced drivers' course I've taken has supported this view and it makes sense; otherwise only one car would turn left per light-change during rush hour. You are part of the problem and not the solution.
