DOJ says Russia is meddling in the 2024 election,

[Valcazar]

It was a good tactic during the primaries but after seeing that the majority of democrats rejected their goals, all they are doing now is ensuring the democrats get punished which will only result in Palestinians (and Muslims in general) being punished under Trump.

They aren't though.
Uncommitted isn't angling to "punish Democrats".

They aren't endorsing, because you can't make the ask and then do nothing in response to not getting the ask addressed.
But they are encouraging anti-Trump votes and stopping him and educating people what that means in the US system.

They are also looking at their long-term options to influence policy and who they want in power in order to do that.

 

[Valcazar]

Your argument with me is that I am against the genocide.

LOL

 

[Frankfooter]

They aren't though.
Uncommitted isn't angling to "punish Democrats".

They aren't endorsing, because you can't make the ask and then do nothing in response to not getting the ask addressed.
But they are encouraging anti-Trump votes and stopping him and educating people what that means in the US system.

They are also looking at their long-term options to influence policy and who they want in power in order to do that.

Uncommitted is trying to get Harris to shift policy.
If she won't, she won't get their votes.
Activist pressure or 'punishment', that's the tactic.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1836760479517270218

 

[Frankfooter]

LOL

Through this nearly year long discussion you've never once suggested alternate or better tactics politically. All you've done is try to argue that not backing or endorsing Harris is either 'punishment', 'naive' or 'wasting a vote'. While you've admitted that you accept that Israel is committing genocide you have tried to argue that its not important, not a big enough issue to sway voters and 'pragmatic' to support the US/Israeli genocide.

What you refuse to say or discuss makes your position clearer than you think.

 

[Valcazar]

Uncommitted is trying to get Harris to shift policy.
If she won't, she won't get their votes.
Activist pressure or 'punishment', that's the tactic.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1836760479517270218

Uncommitted isn't saying she won't get their votes, they are not endorsing her.
Please pay attention to what the groups are saying.

"Abandon Harris" is saying she won't get their votes and that the explicit goal is to punish the Democrats to teach them a lesson, even if it requires getting Trump elected.

 

[Frankfooter]

Uncommitted isn't saying she won't get their votes, they are not endorsing her.
Please pay attention to what the groups are saying.

"Abandon Harris" is saying she won't get their votes and that the explicit goal is to punish the Democrats to teach them a lesson, even if it requires getting Trump elected.

They are also not endorsing rump or Stein.
Equal status for all right now, no vote.

 

[Valcazar]

Through this nearly year long discussion you've never once suggested alternate or better tactics politically.

Because I have no interest in a useless discussion.
We have fundamentally different understandings of the voting and political systems.
There is no meaningful discussion of tactics or strategy to be had in such a circumstance.

 

[Valcazar]

They are also not endorsing rump or Stein.
Equal status for all right now, no vote.

When you won't even read or pay attention to what groups you claim to support/be on the same side of are saying, why do you think it would be worth having a discussion about the subtleties of political strategy and tactics?

 

[Frankfooter]

Because I have no interest in a useless discussion.
We have fundamentally different understandings of the voting and political systems.
There is no meaningful discussion of tactics or strategy to be had in such a circumstance.

And yet here you are again.
This is the tactic you use when you are called out, you pull a skoob and declare you won the debate or that what was posted is 'immaterial'.

When you won't even read or pay attention to what groups you claim to support/be on the same side of are saying, why do you think it would be worth having a discussion about the subtleties of political strategy and tactics?

I'm paying attention, val.

Uncommitted is leaving the door open that they can and will rally votes if Harris changes policy.
They are not saying vote for Harris right now. They don't want rump to win, they don't want to back Stein but they won't back Harris either.
Likely this means they will do what they did this summer, sign 'uncommitted' if Harris continues the genocide. Its essentially what I've been arguing here all year, though you will argue that they will be 'pragmatic' and think they will vote Harris if there is no change.

You are trying to split hairs by arguing that this is all just a stance and that Harris doesn't need to listen to them because they will vote for her regardless.
Harris may believe that as well, but its a massive risk.

 

[Valcazar]

And yet here you are again.
This is the tactic you use when you are called out, you pull a skoob and declare you won the debate or that what was posted is 'immaterial'.

Your inability to understand isn't my fault, Frank.

I'm paying attention, val.

No, you're not.
You're making up what you want to be true.

 

[Frankfooter]

Your inability to understand isn't my fault, Frank.



No, you're not.
You're making up what you want to be true.

Then use your superior language skills to clearly articulate the actual errors in my views instead of the blanket dismissal you use when you are called out.

 

[basketcase]

They aren't though.
Uncommitted isn't angling to "punish Democrats".

They aren't endorsing, because you can't make the ask and then do nothing in response to not getting the ask addressed.
But they are encouraging anti-Trump votes and stopping him and educating people what that means in the US system.

They are also looking at their long-term options to influence policy and who they want in power in order to do that.

I agree that some people are looking long term but the reality at this point in the election cycle, it's a close race between Trump and Harris. For a campaign to successfully influence Democratic policies and their implementation in the near term, a Democratic electoral victory is required. I see a comparison to Bernie's run in the primaries where he proposed policies to the left of the mainstream party but once the primaries were over, he backed the party's nomination, likely realizing that a small influence in the ruling party is better than zero influence if the opposition was in charge.

Similarly a movement to change alignment to less back Israel and provide more backing to Palestinians makes sense in the primaries but a continuation of the campaign when democrat non-voters in swing states will result in an administration that far worse for their movement. On a policy matter like economic policy, waiting 4 years is an acceptable stance but if the motivation of the voter is people dying in war, that wait of 4 years doesn't seem reasonable.

 

[basketcase]

Uncommitted is trying to get Harris to shift policy.
If she won't, she won't get their votes.
Activist pressure or 'punishment', that's the tactic.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1836760479517270218

Interesting post for a guy who believes American Jews have no business lobbying for a foreign population.

 

[Frankfooter]

I agree that some people are looking long term but the reality at this point in the election cycle, it's a close race between Trump and Harris. For a campaign to successfully influence Democratic policies and their implementation in the near term, a Democratic electoral victory is required. I see a comparison to Bernie's run in the primaries where he proposed policies to the left of the mainstream party but once the primaries were over, he backed the party's nomination, likely realizing that a small influence in the ruling party is better than zero influence if the opposition was in charge.

Similarly a movement to change alignment to less back Israel and provide more backing to Palestinians makes sense in the primaries but a continuation of the campaign when democrat non-voters in swing states will result in an administration that far worse for their movement. On a policy matter like economic policy, waiting 4 years is an acceptable stance but if the motivation of the voter is people dying in war, that wait of 4 years doesn't seem reasonable.

Harris/Biden sent $8 billion in bombs to Israel.
The next day they enacted a 9/11 on Beirut to kill Nasrallah because he said he'd only stop defending Palestinians if there was peace.
Israel couldn't take that.

The world shunned Israel at the UN while only Biden/Harris is allowing them to continue.

Backing your genocide could cost her the election.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1840161354394530059

 

[basketcase]

Harris/Biden ...

So continuing to avoid the simple logic of the US' two party system.
And the way you accuse me of genocide shows how desperately you need some help.


p.s. Nasrallah was a terrorist according to Canada, the US, most of the western world and much of the Arab world. Don't know many groups which are more widely considered terrorists.

 

[Frankfooter]

So continuing to avoid the simple logic of the US' two party system.
And the way you accuse me of genocide shows how desperately you need some help.


p.s. Nasrallah was a terrorist according to Canada, the US, most of the western world and much of the Arab world. Don't know many groups which are more widely considered terrorists.

Russia, Turkey and the Pope say Israel are terrorists.
You'll find more people globally are going to say Israel and the US are acting as terrorists.

Now Israel is attacking Christians too.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1840449273831256470

 

[basketcase]

Russia, Turkey and the Pope say Israel are terrorists.
...

What a surprise that you align yourself with Russia and Turkey instead of the rights respecting western world.

I support Canada's perspective far more than those of totalitarian dictators and wannabes.

Currently listed entities

Introduction to the terms of reference and listing of terrorist entities according to Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act

www.publicsafety.gc.ca

 

[SchlongConery]

Trump is definitely comromised by Russia, a collasal liar and/or grossly misinformed and/or stupid.

Claims US has given THREE HUNDRED BILLION to Ukraine for the war and ALL of Europe has only given a "tiny fraction" of that. According to the US State Department the amount of TOTAL US aid to Ukraine is $58 billion. That includes ALL military aid, humanitarian, direct financial assistance etc. Fucking liar.

Als says there is no sense is Ukraine fighting Russia since Russia always wins wars, Russia defeated Hitler etc. Fucking guy is ABSOLUTELY compromised by Russia. And that has SERIOUS implications for us and the entire world. The possibility that there could be a US President that Russia has compromat on is horrifying. Not just to do with Ukraine.

Fucking cult followers...


I;ve winnowed and reorganized the highpoints of the article below for those who want a short version, but the full version of the article is here

FACT CHECK: Trump Outburst – US Support to Ukraine ‘Close to $300 billion,’ Europeans: Deadbeats

Trump told prospective Georgia voters the US is getting taken for a ride but European support to Ukraine outmatches the US by practically all metrics.

www.kyivpost.com

FACT CHECK: Trump Outburst – US Support to Ukraine ‘Close to $300 billion,’ Europeans: Deadbeats

During his Savannah campaign speech, Trump led off with a diatribe that slammed Ukraine, the Zelensky government, the Biden administration and the whole of Europe.

US Presidential candidate Donald Trump at a recent campaign stop said American taxpayer-funded support to Ukraine was close to an eye-watering $300 billion, and that Europe isn’t even close to paying its fair share.

The reality is that Trump’s figure – “revealed’ to prospective voters in Savannah Georgia – was wrong and overstated US support to Ukraine by at least a factor of four, and maybe more, a Kyiv Post fact check found.

In the same Tuesday stump speech, Trump claimed that Ukraine’s European allies were dodging payment of their fair share of Ukraine assistance, and leaving America to pick up the tab.

In fact, total US military assistance for the duration of more than 30 months of the war in Ukraine is actually less than total European military assistance provided to Ukraine.

“(You) know what Europe has given them, which is approximately our size. When you add up the countries together, their economy, it's very close to our size. They've given them like a small fraction of that [$300 billion] number. Just a small, very small, fraction and we have an ocean separating [the US from Europe and the War in Ukraine].”

During his Savannah campaign speech, Trump led off with a diatribe that slammed Ukraine, the Zelensky government, the Biden administration and the whole of Europe.

Those Trump claims are also demonstrably false in multiple ways.

If military hardware and pure military assistance is totted up, then total non-US, primarily European, aid up to June 2024 is around $58 billion, compared to the US $55 billion over the same period.

From September 2023 through March 2024, US military assistance to Ukraine plummeted to less than $2 billion because of the funding block imposed by Congress, which many say was at Trump’s instigation. This coincided with the Russian offensive that captured the city of Bakhmut. The value of military material delivered by European states to Ukraine, during those critical six months was more than 12 times that of the US. Trump, of course, made no mention of Europe stepping in as Ukraine’s arsenal during that period.

Later in his speech, Trump told listeners that Ukrainian resistance to Russia was futile as Russia always wins its wars: “What happens if they [Russia] win? That's what they do. They fight wars. As somebody told me the other day, they beat Hitler, they beat Napoleon. That's what they do. They fight and it's not pleasant.”

The Ukrainian internet was quick to point out that in slightly more than the last century the Russian / Soviet military was repeatedly defeated, by: Japan – 1905, Germany – 1918, Poland – 1919, Afghanistan – 1989 and Chechnya – 1996. Trump made no reference to those facts.

 

[Frankfooter]

What a surprise that you align yourself with Russia and Turkey instead of the rights respecting western world.

I support Canada's perspective far more than those of totalitarian dictators and wannabes.

Currently listed entities

Introduction to the terms of reference and listing of terrorist entities according to Canada's Anti-Terrorism Act

www.publicsafety.gc.ca

I think you use the word 'terrorism' to label any group you think are sub human and should be killed so their land can be taken.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1842543565647593507

 

[SchlongConery]