Does WALMART bring your home value down?
- Thread starter bmwguy
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bmwguy said:
It would only bring the value of your home down as much as living around a BMW dealership will bring the value up......
LateComer said:
The Leslieville proposal is from Smart Center/Rose Corp. Development to build a 700,000 sq ft retail space on the land now occupied by Toronto Film Studio's. To give you some perspective Sherway Mall is only 500,000 sq ft. Another fact to consider is the near 2000 parking spaces needed for a retail development of this size.
At the moment the main tenant has not been divulged. Smart Centre has been the developer of choice for WalMart for some time, but the main tenant list could also include Lowes and Target. Smart Centre most likely will not reveal the tenants until well after any approval and further appeal's are exhausted.
As to whether the Walmart would reduce home prices, the answer is yes. Virtually every similar sized retail development in Canada and the US has resulted in a severe deterioration of the local neighborhoods and business's. It's a well documented fact that a Walmart is not good for anyone but Walmart. Google search and you'll find endless documentation.
This development has been turned down by the City planning Dept. and City council and is currently in the pre-hearing appeal stage to the OMB.
Mark: for the record, I bet those historical numbers are for walmart US which operate totally differently than in Canada. For eg: it is walmart US's practise to "surround" a medium sized town/city with stores, cut their prices to just below cost to drive competitors out of business, then raise their prices back to normal levels.
There are laws in Canada to prevent this from happening which is why walmart canada hasn't grown as expected. In fact, they recently closed the store on warden at eglinton.
There are laws in Canada to prevent this from happening which is why walmart canada hasn't grown as expected. In fact, they recently closed the store on warden at eglinton.
I'd have to say a home buyer would be more concerned with things like: dry rot, crime, schools (if they have or plan to have kids), features of the house, the overall property values of the neighbourhood, etc. I don't think the type of stores nearby necessarily affect housing prices. (as long as they are legitimate businesses and aren't all crappy dumps like you see in Chicago's east side).
House prices have gone up almost 50% everywhere! Last week I put a large cardboard box at the foot of Spadina and King and sold it for $50,000 above asking!t8rs said:
But seriously, here are some things to consider though - and assuming we're talking about Leslieville, I live in the area.
First, let's consider what else could be built there besides a Wal-Mart. Perhaps public spaces, parks, other mixed use developments. Is there something else that could go there that could increase the value more? Could there be a revitalization like the Distillery District or some sort of other unique development going in there?
Now, let's consider traffic for a bit. While the area is not congested, most people drive to Wal-Mart as they tend to make large purchases there - plus Wal-Marts "draw" from a large area. There's not much room for improvement of the roads, so traffic would be affected. Add to that the 18-wheelers that would roam through the area. They're the kicker - just this morning, an 18-wheeler held-up traffic for three lights around the area trying to make a right-hand turn.
There's also a growing, but not fully stable retail community on Queen East. I don't suspect that it will be decimated, but I would hate for even one merchant there to be negatively affected.
Finally, you need to consider the people that live in the area. If we wanted to live near a Wal-Mart or big boxes, we wouldn't have bought here.
3T, you make some valid points, but really, did local businesses or the retail environment really come into play when you bought here? I know location (within the city, NOT what was nearby) played a major role in why I bought here.
If you are worried about the possible increase in traffic, hell, that will be a growing problem no matter where you live. That's life!
I for one cannot WAIT until the CTC store is open at leslie and lakeshore, it will save me $$$ having to travel to either main and danforth, laird, or Yonge. As for a lowes opening, YIPPPEEE that way I'll never have to shop at that dump of a home depot ever again.....
As for affecting retailers currently in the area. Really, other than Zellers there isn't much around here that Walmart competes with. People shopping at the various retro furniture stores won't be shopping at walmart, people shopping in the smaller retailers in the beaches won't be shopping there. You MIGHT find that some of walmart's food items may affect the 3 or 4 larger grocery stores but I for one won't change my shopping habits (food).In fact, just thinking, I don't shop at walmart now, even if I'm in the area of one and I think I've only ever been in one twice or 3x so I doubt I will shop there if and when it opens. But I just might because I'm always looking for cheap work clothes and the zellers selection blows dead donkey dicks.
If you get right down to it, this area is really hurting for a major dept store since Sears left and walmart will fill that need.
If you are worried about the possible increase in traffic, hell, that will be a growing problem no matter where you live. That's life!
I for one cannot WAIT until the CTC store is open at leslie and lakeshore, it will save me $$$ having to travel to either main and danforth, laird, or Yonge. As for a lowes opening, YIPPPEEE that way I'll never have to shop at that dump of a home depot ever again.....
As for affecting retailers currently in the area. Really, other than Zellers there isn't much around here that Walmart competes with. People shopping at the various retro furniture stores won't be shopping at walmart, people shopping in the smaller retailers in the beaches won't be shopping there. You MIGHT find that some of walmart's food items may affect the 3 or 4 larger grocery stores but I for one won't change my shopping habits (food).In fact, just thinking, I don't shop at walmart now, even if I'm in the area of one and I think I've only ever been in one twice or 3x so I doubt I will shop there if and when it opens. But I just might because I'm always looking for cheap work clothes and the zellers selection blows dead donkey dicks.
If you get right down to it, this area is really hurting for a major dept store since Sears left and walmart will fill that need.
Walmart's current business growth plan is to move into urban centres.
They built a store at Jane and St. Claire north of me. I've only set foot in there once looking for xmas lights and they were sold out. Other than that, I don't bother with Big Wally.
They are on a tight parcel of land there, so what they did was build underground parking. The area around there is definitely working class neighbourhood. They do have a market there and they transformed a derelict railway field into a shopping centre. All down St. Claire from Jane to St. Claire, for better or for worse is becoming a big box store haven.
If bucks are really tight and you can stretch your money by shopping at walmart, then be my guest.
They built a store at Jane and St. Claire north of me. I've only set foot in there once looking for xmas lights and they were sold out. Other than that, I don't bother with Big Wally.
They are on a tight parcel of land there, so what they did was build underground parking. The area around there is definitely working class neighbourhood. They do have a market there and they transformed a derelict railway field into a shopping centre. All down St. Claire from Jane to St. Claire, for better or for worse is becoming a big box store haven.
If bucks are really tight and you can stretch your money by shopping at walmart, then be my guest.
The WalMart will only be built if the existing Toronto Film Studios shuts down. Thousands of well-paid manufacturing jobs replaced by a few hundred low-paid retail ones—and all the pollution and congestion of people who have to drive there to get those bargains home to their WalMart-free neighbourhoods. Ah! Progress!
Hey tboy:
Good points too... Actually, I did buy in the area because of local retail, but it was more because of the presence of small owner-operated shops than it was the ABSENCE of large big-boxes. There's something about owner operated shops that is much more appealing to me than big-boxes. I like strolling into shops and getting to know the owners - much better service. They actually know and and support the area - so there is a community feel to local shops.
Also, my purchases and buying patterns generally do not take me to malls or big-boxes. The exceptions are some clothes and electronics, but both are infrequent purchases.
Will Wal-Mart kill Queen Street East? More than likely not - however, I do support small retailers, and I think that Queen East is not firmly established yet, and I don't want anything in the area that could hurt some of them.
Anyhow, you're right about traffic - it will increase, but there are two kinds of increases. There's an organic increase because of natural population growth and a transit system that is virtually beyond repair. I can accept that. What I can't accept is something that is put into the neighbourhood that increases traffic beyond what is normal.
What I do agree with is that the current malls and big boxes do need a good swift kick in the ass. The HD is horrible, and Zellers barely has a pulse - but again since I don't shop at these places much anyhow, Wal-Mart won't make a difference. See, I think that most any HD and Zellers and Wal-Mart for that matter are horrible, regardless of where they are.
I think the ones in Leslieville are particularly bad because they're small and the demographics don't support the selection and availability at other stores.
Anyhow, if it comes, my two concerns are whether something could have been put there that would make better use of the space, and the traffic brought with it. To answer the original question - it won't lower property values and will not horribly impact the area, but my opinion leans towards not having it there.
Now - how about putting in 700,000 square foot red-light district there instead!
Good points too... Actually, I did buy in the area because of local retail, but it was more because of the presence of small owner-operated shops than it was the ABSENCE of large big-boxes. There's something about owner operated shops that is much more appealing to me than big-boxes. I like strolling into shops and getting to know the owners - much better service. They actually know and and support the area - so there is a community feel to local shops.
Also, my purchases and buying patterns generally do not take me to malls or big-boxes. The exceptions are some clothes and electronics, but both are infrequent purchases.
Will Wal-Mart kill Queen Street East? More than likely not - however, I do support small retailers, and I think that Queen East is not firmly established yet, and I don't want anything in the area that could hurt some of them.
Anyhow, you're right about traffic - it will increase, but there are two kinds of increases. There's an organic increase because of natural population growth and a transit system that is virtually beyond repair. I can accept that. What I can't accept is something that is put into the neighbourhood that increases traffic beyond what is normal.
What I do agree with is that the current malls and big boxes do need a good swift kick in the ass. The HD is horrible, and Zellers barely has a pulse - but again since I don't shop at these places much anyhow, Wal-Mart won't make a difference. See, I think that most any HD and Zellers and Wal-Mart for that matter are horrible, regardless of where they are.
I think the ones in Leslieville are particularly bad because they're small and the demographics don't support the selection and availability at other stores.
Anyhow, if it comes, my two concerns are whether something could have been put there that would make better use of the space, and the traffic brought with it. To answer the original question - it won't lower property values and will not horribly impact the area, but my opinion leans towards not having it there.
Now - how about putting in 700,000 square foot red-light district there instead!
3tees: You're right about the queen east retailers not fully developed yet. There are too many dives along queen between broadview and leslie. The area is slowly getting better, but still too many "rubbies" around for my liking.
As for some of the furniture Kitch shops lol. I was walking along there one day and saw these white bucket type plastic chairs in the window with a white plastic table. I think the price was somewhere around 8 bones and what I found REALLY funny is that when I was in the trade show biz, these were the standard rental units you got with your std booth and every body hated them. I bet I could get my hands on 20,000 sets at a buck a piece and here's buddy thinking (and probably selling it too) he's got a collector's item.....
As for what to do with the area if the studios actually move....yeah, a red light district would work too but with the beaches so close, it'd have to be totally geared towards what a REAL red light district is (aka amsterdam).
Now if someone had some deep pockets and some foresight a really hot developement with shopping below, and condos/apartments above would go over well there. Just imagine the view you'd get from all directions? Heck, if it was tall enough you'd be able to see the other side of the lake on a clear day.....
As for some of the furniture Kitch shops lol. I was walking along there one day and saw these white bucket type plastic chairs in the window with a white plastic table. I think the price was somewhere around 8 bones and what I found REALLY funny is that when I was in the trade show biz, these were the standard rental units you got with your std booth and every body hated them. I bet I could get my hands on 20,000 sets at a buck a piece and here's buddy thinking (and probably selling it too) he's got a collector's item.....
As for what to do with the area if the studios actually move....yeah, a red light district would work too but with the beaches so close, it'd have to be totally geared towards what a REAL red light district is (aka amsterdam).
Now if someone had some deep pockets and some foresight a really hot developement with shopping below, and condos/apartments above would go over well there. Just imagine the view you'd get from all directions? Heck, if it was tall enough you'd be able to see the other side of the lake on a clear day.....
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