Does he deserve to live?

[langeweile]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150994,00.html

This punk goes in to a 9 year old girls bedroom.Kidnaps her, rapes her and then kills her.
My daughter is 10 if this would happen to her I probably kill the bastard myself.
There is a lot of talk as to the effectiveness of the death penalty. Personally I don't give a shit as to the effectiveness. This guy is a repeated sex offender and now a little girl has paid the price.

Personally all sex offender should be castrated on the first offense and shoud have to wear an electronic chip so they can be constantly tracked.

Sorry for the rant......but I feel better now.

 

[Peeping Tom]

What amazes me is that this scumbag has a police file a foot thick - 24 arrests prior - yet he still was free to kill. Three strikes would have prevented this but now its time to fry.

 

[oldjones]

What amazes me is that this scumbag has a police file a foot thick - 24 arrests prior - yet he still was free to kill. Three strikes would have prevented this but now its time to fry.

At least langeweille's frank about wanting revenge. Not an outrageous thought given the circumstances. Although we should remember before the lynching, that lots of confessions to heinous crimes have turned out to be false. It's why we have trials. But let's cut the crap about the death penalty/three strikes/minimum sentencing as prevention. Never worked, never will. If it ever had, you'd have the statistics to prove your point.

California—where the first three strikes law was passed—is no safer than it was before, the jails are full to bursting, and they can't build (or pay enough taxes for) new ones fast enough. Meantime prosecuters don't lay the third charges, judges won't hear them and juries won't convict, because for every 'deserving' bad guy there's a dozen just plain hard-luck cases where no interest is served by putting them away for life. And ya know something? When you're an overworked underpaid cop, probation officer, jailer, DA, PD, judge, jury member, social worker, you can't always tell the difference, or convince anyone even if you think you can tell. But of one thing you can be sure: the taxpayers will scream when it's time to pay for it.

This stuff has been baffling people for millenia; the kind of knee-jerk answer you offer does nothing but increase the volume level without contributing any content to the debate.

 

[jwmorrice]

...the kind of knee-jerk answer you offer does nothing but increase the volume level without contributing any content to the debate.

Well, you are talking about Peeping Tom!

jwm

 

[slowandeasy]

At least langeweille's frank about wanting revenge. Not an outrageous thought given the circumstances. Although we should remember before the lynching, that lots of confessions to heinous crimes have turned out to be false. It's why we have trials. But let's cut the crap about the death penalty/three strikes/minimum sentencing as prevention. Never worked, never will. If it ever had, you'd have the statistics to prove your point.

California—where the first three strikes law was passed—is no safer than it was before, the jails are full to bursting, and they can't build (or pay enough taxes for) new ones fast enough. Meantime prosecuters don't lay the third charges, judges won't hear them and juries won't convict, because for every 'deserving' bad guy there's a dozen just plain hard-luck cases where no interest is served by putting them away for life. And ya know something? When you're an overworked underpaid cop, probation officer, jailer, DA, PD, judge, jury member, social worker, you can't always tell the difference, or convince anyone even if you think you can tell. But of one thing you can be sure: the taxpayers will scream when it's time to pay for it.

This stuff has been baffling people for millenia; the kind of knee-jerk answer you offer does nothing but increase the volume level without contributing any content to the debate.

Devil's Advocate:
-Anyone over the age of 16, convicted of a sexual assault/rape, sexual
touching etc of children under the age of 13 should be sentenced to death.
- Anyone with more than one conviction for rape,sexual assault etc should
sentenced to death;
- Anyone with a murder/manslaughter conviction etc, with more than one
other violent crime conviction should be sentenced to death;
- Anyone else want to fill in your request?
How many jail cells do you think that will free up?
More importantly, how many future crimes will this prevent?

For the record, I do not feel that the death penalty is an ideal solution.... but
then again we do not live in the ideal world.

 

[Coach]

The issue of the death penalty definitely has many grey areas. However, this individual most certainly desrves to be put to death. He rans down there with Cliiford Olson and Paul Bernardo. Lowest form of garbage on this earth.
Of course, the option is to put them in jail among the general population. Justice would prevail in an unusual manner!

 

[Vietor]

I have had an idea for a long time of what to do with the excess of violent criminals that our society produces. I conclude that we need a penal colony where the inmates labor on something productive to the whole. Only very basic human rights need be observed, since the inmates forfeited any further rights by their actions. Deviation from strict standards would be dealt with by immediate due process.

I propose that a large portion of Siberia be purchased from Russia to serve as the penal colony. This would provide Russia with the hard currency that it desperately needs and provide the U.S. with the "wild west" that may be a requisite part of our collective Psyche.

Just a thought.

 

[oldjones]

Trouble with the deterrence argument is the huge number of periods and places in human history where it has not worked. There's just no evidence for it working. I'd venture an explanation: the kinda guy dumb enough to do this sorta stuf, or to shoot cops, or…, or… is just too dumb to process the thought of the consequences.

But I guess there must be a kind of bloodthirsty, self-righteous pleasure in devising imaginary torments and punishments for his sort. We get this kind of catalogue every time there's a case like this in the news. Somehow I never hear the "throw away the key" guys at election time asking which candidate will promise to raise our taxes so we can have bigger and better jails, and court systems to fill them.

Personally, I'd say our habitual offender laws already offer a decent chance at the only worthwhile objective here; getting the proven badguys off the street.

 

[Peeping Tom]

I'm not advocating a lynching. This guy had 24 arrests in his history and was wanted on parole violations including provisions of the act governing registered sex offenders. This guy is a dangerous offender that slipped through the cracks of the criminal justice system thanks to the efforts of the criminal coddlers: He served less than two years of a ten year sentence for child molestation during a burglary - had he remained in prison it is likely a better profile could have been made concerning the future of this career criminal. Three strikes would have kept him behind bars and saved a girl's life - demonstrating just how highly effective such a policy is. If anything, this demonstrates the need for three strikes on a Federal level.

At least langeweille's frank about wanting revenge. Not an outrageous thought given the circumstances. Although we should remember before the lynching, that lots of confessions to heinous crimes have turned out to be false. It's why we have trials. But let's cut the crap about the death penalty/three strikes/minimum sentencing as prevention. Never worked, never will. If it ever had, you'd have the statistics to prove your point.

I notice a contradiction here - it doesn't work, yet the jails are bursting. Where are your stats?

California—where the first three strikes law was passed—is no safer than it was before, the jails are full to bursting, and they can't build (or pay enough taxes for) new ones fast enough.

 

[Peeping Tom]

I usually don't agree with you but heck, when you're right you're right. I'll add that for cases where the proof is irrefutable, i.e. DNA evidence, all avenues of appeal get shut down to speed up the course of Justice.

Devil's Advocate:
-Anyone over the age of 16, convicted of a sexual assault/rape, sexual
touching etc of children under the age of 13 should be sentenced to death.
- Anyone with more than one conviction for rape,sexual assault etc should
sentenced to death;
- Anyone with a murder/manslaughter conviction etc, with more than one
other violent crime conviction should be sentenced to death;
- Anyone else want to fill in your request?
How many jail cells do you think that will free up?
More importantly, how many future crimes will this prevent?

For the record, I do not feel that the death penalty is an ideal solution.... but
then again we do not live in the ideal world.

 

[someone]

Devil's Advocate:
-Anyone over the age of 16, convicted of a sexual assault/rape, sexual
touching etc of children under the age of 13 should be sentenced to death.
- Anyone with more than one conviction for rape,sexual assault etc should
sentenced to death;

Of course this means that he has nothing to lose by killing the victim and possibly a great deal to gain in terms of having no witnesses to his crime. This is why few jurisdictions still have the death penalty for kidnapping.

 

[slowandeasy]

Of course this means that he has nothing to lose by killing the victim and possibly a great deal to gain in terms of having no witnesses to his crime. This is why few jurisdictions still have the death penalty for kidnapping.

Never thought of this... makes good sense...

I am not a psychiatrist or psychologist or anything else that starts with psy, so do not take this as any kind of informed opinion: I really do not believe that someone who sexually assaults/molest/rape (or whatever the legal terms are) a very young child really can be "reformed or rehabilitated". More importantly, we need to protect our children at any cost.

I do not know anything about these studies indicating that "Capital punishment is not a deterrent", and therefore I am in no position to comment.

I have seen some statistics about the following:
Convicted felons have a very high tendency to repeat their crimes. This means that we tend to put a person in Jail two or three times for the same types of crimes. If this person gets the death penalty after just two similar crimes, then I would say that it cannot help but reduce crime. Does the 80/20 rule apply here? Are 80% of our crime caused by 20% of the population? Hmm.... we eliminate 1/2 of that 20%, do our crime rates
fall by 40%? A little far fetched perhaps??? More than a little you say???

However, research results tends to prove the point that the researcher was intent on proving. Did we not recently have a massive recall of some medications that were "heavily researched" but recently found to have direct links to heart attacks?

I don't know what the answer is to this dilemna... but I too often hear about ideal solutions for a problem when we do not live in an ideal world!!!!

I have heard the stats that the Death Penalty is not a deterrent.... Has anyone got the crime stats from Cuba... I bet you it's pretty low!!!!

 

[oldjones]

I usually don't agree with you but heck, when you're right you're right. I'll add that for cases where the proof is irrefutable, i.e. DNA evidence, all avenues of appeal get shut down to speed up the course of Justice.

Where did you get the idea any evidence, including DNA, can be irrefutable?

First of all DNA experts are quite meticulous in accurately expressing their findings as a set of probablilities only, no more. As we have seen here and in the US, sworn testimony by accredited and respected DNA experts has been blown out of the water more than once. They lie, are sloppy, and get it wrong like anyone else. And if the defence can afford their own DNA testing, it's not at all uncommon for them to produce quite different results in court. So where's irrefutable then?

Don't tell me: someone would have to judge! I know, let's have jury help the judge! Which would be irrefutable right up 'til you didn't like the verdict, wouldn't it? I know, we'll have appeals to keep you happy!

You're still imagining the hard, messy job of exacting justice can be accomplished by easy answers. Childish. If it was that easy, we'd have been doing it forever. Grow up.

 

[Peeping Tom]

Punishment under the US criminal justice system is exactly that - punishment. It was never intended to be anything else, this in part to the fundamental definition of the State's ability to inflict a punishment in the first place. Indeed, one would not be able to define the State's ability to punish in terms of deterrence, lest one at the same time define the most tyrannical regime imaginable.

The consequence of considering deterrence in terms of sentencing results in reduced sentences and increased recidivism. One can't be deterred so the conclusion is then why punish - the criminal coddling of liberalism.

The most effective deterrent is strong lighting. The harshest sentences in the books have never deterred anyone.

For followup on the State's duty to punish I recommend John Locke's Second Treatise on Government. It is volume 51 and doesn't like to be linked directly so you have to go get it.

linky

I do not know anything about these studies indicating that "Capital punishment is not a deterrent", and therefore I am in no position to comment.

 

[cyrus]

PUNISHMENTS, DETERRENCE then read this and learn how it should be done!

Iran town rejoices at public hanging
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4355029.stm

 

[batista7777]

PUNISHMENTS, DETERRENCE then read this and learn how it should be done!

Iran town rejoices at public hanging
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4355029.stm

I did not read the same article, but there was an article in the Globe & Mail in regards to this- where it said they whipped him w/ chains and then hung him (Angabunga to death). Wowthey kill him once to suffer, then kill again to remember what pain he caused to those families and victims. Now that's capital punishment.

 

[oldjones]

…edit…

I have heard the stats that the Death Penalty is not a deterrent.... Has anyone got the crime stats from Cuba... I bet you it's pretty low!!!!

You might check out the stats for Texas while you're at it. For some reason the murder rate and the number of executions are both high. Way higher than non capital punishment states or Canada.

Cuba's rate is 7.8/100,000, a bit higher than the US's 7/100,000 (source: the first site on the list when I Googled for "murder rates by counrty" an anti-gun control site FWIW.) Those stats don't suggest a deterrent effect do they?

 

[Peeping Tom]

The theatrical punishments typically enacted by a prince's wild acts of will often go beyond what a life can endure and the physical corpse's integrity. Some of the punishments involving regicide were rather elaborate.

I did not read the same article, but there was an article in the Globe & Mail in regards to this- where it said they whipped him w/ chains and then hung him (Angabunga to death). Wowthey kill him once to suffer, then kill again to remember what pain he caused to those families and victims. Now that's capital punishment.

 

[slowandeasy]

You might check out the stats for Texas while you're at it. For some reason the murder rate and the number of executions are both high. Way higher than non capital punishment states or Canada.

Cuba's rate is 7.8/100,000, a bit higher than the US's 7/100,000 (source: the first site on the list when I Googled for "murder rates by counrty" an anti-gun control site FWIW.) Those stats don't suggest a deterrent effect do they?

I was just being silly with the Cuba reference, but I am shocked that it's higher than the US....

 

[oldjones]

I was just being silly with the Cuba reference, but I am shocked that it's higher than the US....

Silly me for ever taking you seriously. Now, let's stick to the US, where lots of stats are available, and it's easier to avoid comparing apples and oranges; Where are the statistics, or any evidence at all to support your assertion that the death penalty deters? Time to put up.

PS: About the apples and oranges and Cuba: you mean you expected the socialist workers' paradise would have a lower murder rate than the streets-paved-with-gold capitalist one?