Deportation of Portugeese Construction Workers

[Fred Zed]

Harper out of synch with GWB

Bush said. "No one should pretend that immigrants are threats to American identity because immigrants have shaped American identity. No one should claim that immigrants are a burden on our economy because the work and enterprise of immigrants helps sustain the economy."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/28/MNGIRHV4KC1.DTL

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14200094.htm


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/04/02/EDGIFI0RDH1.DTL

 

[tboy]

Hey Fred, I couldn't agree wholeheartedly more... without the italians of yesterday we wouldn't have been able to create all the buildings etc.

I totally support immigration because all it does is enhance our Canadian society. The only drawback to our immigration policies is when they bring their fights here.

 

[Malibook]

With regards to the immigration and refugee system, information from someone close to me who has worked >20 years in (non-government) immigration and refugee:

Short term (<3 years) statistics show approximately 3% fraud and mistakes.
Long term statistics show approximately 1% fraud and mistakes.

A lot of scammers do get in but apparently they are the vast minority.

I fail to see why these people should be rewarded for illegally jumping ahead of the numerous people going through the proper procedure/channel.

 

[Malibook]

Bush said. "No one should pretend that immigrants are threats to American identity because immigrants have shaped American identity. No one should claim that immigrants are a burden on our economy because the work and enterprise of immigrants helps sustain the economy."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/28/MNGIRHV4KC1.DTL

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14200094.htm

Now you want Harper to be more like Bush?
Make up your mind.

 

[Fred Zed]

Now you want Harper to be more like Bush?

I thought he was already ? You think he is more to the right of GWB ( on the immigration issue ) then ?

 

[Malibook]

I thought he was already ? You think he is more to the right of GWB ( on the immigration issue ) then ?

The issue is being debated in congress and it is these lawmakers who will determine the fate of the illegal immigrants and their employers.

What makes you think that Harper is stepping up the deportation process, not that there is anything wrong with that?

The government claims that the numbers are in line with recent years yet you seem to think you know better.

 

[Fred Zed]

The issue is being debated in congress and it is these lawmakers who will determine the fate of the illegal immigrants and their employers.

What makes you think that Harper is stepping up the deportation process, not that there is anything wrong with that?

The government claims that the numbers are in line with recent years yet you seem to know better.

I think the Canadian Border agency received more funding, but I seriously hope they use the additional resources to remove violent criminals as opposed to working families with kids in school.
How does the new govt. know their numbers are in line with recent years when they just got elected ?

 

[continual11]

Why weren't the original European settlers considered illegal?

You guys really need to stop whining. Your crying makes it seem like you're the lazy ones. Accept the fact that theres more competition in the workforce who will do you menial labour jobs for less wages than your average white Canadian. Thats how capitalism works. Quit complaining and improve your own skills.

 

[goodtime]

I know about the triage situation and due to my circumstance, yes I was bumped to the head of the line. All that meant was I got a bed really quickly. BUT while there, 8 out of 10 cases were items that were not emergency in nature. ie: colds, flu, aches from overwork etc. I remember one specific case where the doc was in the next cubicle/curtain area and the couple had a baby with them that was crying and fussing the whole time (guess the baby was around 3 ?) well when the doc came in I heard them tell him he has been to the family doc, he had a cold, but was fussing and crying all night.

The doc said: did your family doc tell you to give him anything? They said yes, baby tylenol... He said: Did you? They said: no, we brought him here...

2 minutes later a nurse shows up with a bottle and a teaspoon. 10 minutes later baby isn't crying or fussing and they leave....

Now what the fuck was that?

Talk to ANY OR nurse, intern or Doc and besides being overworked, the main cause of them being overworked is dealing with NON-emergency cases....

One case makes it the norm?

OR nurse don't work in Emerg, btw.



3 common excuse for higher building cost:

a) Cost of building material gone up.
b) Trademen wages gone up.
c) Cost of develop land went up.

I don't recalling hearing home cost went up result of banks profitting too much from it. It's true bank takes the biggest pie, if down-chain cost are up, it just snowball down the chain, everybody mark up accordingly.



The only reason Bush is for foreign workers is to stay in power. Without his home state Texas & Calif, the dense Latino population he may as well go back to his farm.

 

[rama putri]

Once again, I have no sympathy for illegal immigrants. They knew the risks of getting in the country illegally. They got caught, they pay the price. Simple. No sympathy here. Ship'em out. Kids and all.

 

[tboy]

One case makes it the norm?

OR nurse don't work in Emerg, btw.



3 common excuse for higher building cost:

a) Cost of building material gone up.
b) Trademen wages gone up.
c) Cost of develop land went up.

I don't recalling hearing home cost went up result of banks profitting too much from it. It's true bank takes the biggest pie, if down-chain cost are up, it just snowball down the chain, everybody mark up accordingly.



The only reason Bush is for foreign workers is to stay in power. Without his home state Texas & Calif, the dense Latino population he may as well go back to his farm.

One case doesn't make it the norm, but 75% of the cases seen in the ER are similar to my experience. Least according to a study done last year by the liberals and the CMA.....

Yeah, I know, ER not OR, mistype.....

As for your reasons for the rising cost of new home construction, you are correct, all those add to the cost of building a home. BUT you also forgot land taxes, utilities, and the ever popular: there just isn't that much land to develope. Like the saying goes: invest in land, cause God isn't making any more of it.....

BTW, banks don't take the biggest slice of the pie in new home construction, the loans etc developers take are at very favourable rates. Banks make the biggest money off of the homeowner who ulitimately purchases the home and mortgages it. That is why many developers work out financing for buyers because they cut a deal with the banks who finance their development.

BTW, FYI: the reason nails, structural steel etc has risen so much over the past few years is the building boom in China. A lot of our steel goes there, and since steel is a commodity, everyone pays more....

 

[goodtime]

And you listen to government that wants to do the cuts?

CMA is suppose to know Hospital Administration?

You probably believe what U.S. media are saying, the oil crisis is because of China.

Right...

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

I know more than you think...

And yet another poster who doesn't know squat about the building/construction industry......If you don't know what you're talking about, why talk? Here's some flaws in your statement:

1) Instaed of curtailing their huge profits: Where the fuck do you get your data? This was discussed before in another thread but home developers make, after expenses about $8 - $10 K per house. This works out to about 5% THAT'S huge profits? Credit card companies and Banks are making ten times that amount

2) Wages: Unskilled labour is cheap. Well, at $12 - $15 cheap. Skilled construction general workers make $20.00 per hour, Plumbings, welders, steel workers a lot more.

3) Why should the construction companies pay for someone's schooling? What do we have schools for that are paid for by our government? Companies hire trained workers or apprentices.

4) there are PLENTY of un/underemployed people who'll do this work. BULLSHIT, you show me a group of 20 kids under 18 yrs old and I will show you NONE want to do this...why? CAUSE IT IS HARD PHYSICAL LABOUR. Oh yeah, they want to work outside when the temp is -35, -45 with the windchill. Oh yeah, they are dying to work in mud up to their knees....Oh yeah, they want to work outside in the hot sun when the temp is +45

5) paying to retain them when there's a downturn WTF you talking about? You show me ONE company in Canada that will keep a full staff employed when their business is cut by 80% Dude, you're whacked.....

Just a head's up, and the names will remain hidden to protect the innocent, Someone I know recently was involved with bidding on a major high profile construction job here in TOronto. They made it to the final cut but lost out to another company. On this project, know what their final profit would have been if they had got it? ZERO NO PROFIT NOT A PENNY OVER COST. this project was in the neighbourhood of $14,000,000.00 too...

back to the workers being deported: I see nothing wrong with any nationality wanting to help their own. This is the same thing Italians have been doing for generations....

With this current spate of portugese workers being deported, I have this to say: I was involved with a portugese girl when I was younger and knew her entire family for years. Her parents constantly harped on how much better portugal was than Canada and how much they hated it here. Through this family I met probably a dozen more families and you know, they all said the same thing. My advice now to those being deported? Hey, if you're anything like the 13 families I ran into, you're finally getting your wish to go home to your beautiful beloved wonderful country on OUR dime....

Thanks for the typical canuck mode of debate....shitting all over the other guy. Toll Brothers in the States has done exactly what you say is impossible. They dealt with labour shortages on many of their sites by devising an entirely new way of building upper-end homes; they manufactured entire modules off-site and assembled them using teams of labourers supervised by experienced carpenters. I've made quite alot of money investing in its stock. Oh, and by the way, they also give bonuses to workers who've been with the company for a long time.....and they keep people on through downturns. They even TRAIN them!!!!

Japan has no immigration. So in the building boom of the 80s which made the islands of Japan more valuable than the USA, they couldn't resort to cheap immigrant labour to do the work. And the construction industry just happened to be experiencing many retirements of the workers who started after the war. Last but not least, young people just wouldn't do physical labour anymore. So how did the japanese deal with this perfect storm? They---gasp--INNOVATED. They built those mini-escavators to lessen the burden of the actual work, they used jacks that lifted the entire building as the floors were built and they payed vastly more for the work. And that's what canadian contractors would have to do...and if they couldn't or wouldn't then let them go out of business.

From the tboy's evidence...of contractors doing work for nothing....it sounds like there's too many people in the industry anyway.

Oh yeah, that's right, we can't do that here. It's because of tboys ' you're full of shit' narrow-mindedness that I NEVER buy stock in canadian-managed companies. This country hates innovation. I've missed some moves in the resource plays, but I just can't stand canadian companies. America and asia rule and they'll always rule us.

 

[short]

I'm gonna get a lot of heat over this, but before replying think hard about it cause its true......................................

illegal immigrants in general - aside from the Portuguese - consists of Italian, Chinese, Russians, Indians, Spanish/Latin......................recent media events have seemed to focus in on the Portuguese and in the US, South American. Now, compare both to the others (ie. Italians, Russians, etc.). Tell me, which of the bunch are more affluent (of course there are some Portuguese/South Americans with $$ as well)? In the mind of the government, it would make sense to keep those around with more $$, who can contribute more to the economy, than those who cannot - Portuguese. Sure they do the odd labour jobs, but they ain't the only ones who occupy them. Anyway to sum it up, those with $$ can stay but those with no $$ unfortunately have to go.

 

[tboy]

Footsniffer:

You show me specifically where I "shit all over the other guy"???? When some presents flawed data, and they know NOTHING about the industry, I will point out that fact.....

As for innovation: what's that got to do with deporting illegal workers? Sure, modular homes has been around for oh, I don't know, maybe 45 yrs???? It just didn't catch on here in Canada....why? Maybe because the start up costs are so high that to build a factory to produce the modules isn't cost effective....I agree, there would probably be a tremendous savings on materials and impact on the environment. I think I read somewhere that on an average home, during construction, about 2 tons of waste is produced.

In addition: I never said contractors ARE doing work for nothing, I said why SHOULD they work for nothing? And there IS a shortage of workers out there (as I stated) because our youth is too lazy to want to actually work for a living.

Dude, before you misquote me, and criticize me, go back to school and take another introductory to reading course, then you might understand what people write here......

 

[Primetime21]

About this myth that there is a shortage of workers, and that the youth are too lazy to do the work is complete bullshit. I prepare income taxes and when these teenagers and 20 somethings come in to do their returns and you ask them if they had any cash income the majority say they worked under the table. When you question them some more they say they worked construction,roofing, etc. for cash. When you tell them they have to report that income the majority walk right out the door because they don't want to pay taxes, they are looking for a free ride. These kids will work when they need some money to party or to buy something. These contractors know that. They are the real problem, as are the unions as both seem to allow illegals to do the jobs as long as everyone keeps their mouths shut. If it was mandatory for everyone that worked on construction jobs to have a SIN# as well as be paid regular wages with deductions for EI and CPP then the vast majority of these problems would be settled. But the majority involved only care about the bottom line, so we have this problem.

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

Amen

About this myth that there is a shortage of workers, and that the youth are too lazy to do the work is complete bullshit. I prepare income taxes and when these teenagers and 20 somethings come in to do their returns and you ask them if they had any cash income the majority say they worked under the table. When you question them some more they say they worked construction,roofing, etc. for cash. When you tell them they have to report that income the majority walk right out the door because they don't want to pay taxes, they are looking for a free ride. These kids will work when they need some money to party or to buy something. These contractors know that. They are the real problem, as are the unions as both seem to allow illegals to do the jobs as long as everyone keeps their mouths shut. If it was mandatory for everyone that worked on construction jobs to have a SIN# as well as be paid regular wages with deductions for EI and CPP then the vast majority of these problems would be settled. But the majority involved only care about the bottom line, so we have this problem.

...My point exactly. Maybe my use of the term 'venal contractors' was a bit over the top but if people in the industry didn't rely on, frankly desperate undocumented workers so much in order to make a profit then the industry would change. The work has to get done and it will be done, but by better trained and taxpaying young people who are being paid enough money to compensate for the risk and dangers of that job. People respond to incentives....

 

[tboy]

About this myth that there is a shortage of workers, and that the youth are too lazy to do the work is complete bullshit. I prepare income taxes and when these teenagers and 20 somethings come in to do their returns and you ask them if they had any cash income the majority say they worked under the table.

Funny, how everyone said teenagers/youths and you bring up 20 somethings....20 something is no longer a "youth".

If they are going to someone to do their taxes, of course they would be hard workers since they need someone to figure out all their income. The lazy ones DON'T have an income, hence they are lazy..get it? LOL

OK, speaking in averages, we had 8 co-op students go through a cabinet shop I worked at. Of those 8 only 1 really wanted to work and even then he didn't want to work, ALL the time, only when HE felt like it. The other 7 you basically had to grab em by the shoulders and force em to work. They were more interested in sitting on their asses. So, based on that recent experience 1 out of 8 is about 12 percent. Extrapolating that I'd say the majority are lazy....BTW these co-op students were 17 & 18 and chose a cabinet shop as opposed to other businesses to co-op at.

 

[goodtime]

Dude, before you misquote me, and criticize me, go back to school and take another introductory to reading course, then you might understand what people write here......

Should try to carry a debate without insults.

FYI, Co-op students are not part of the work force. Co-ops are students just want to get their credit. Sure there're lazy people that rather not work, regardless of age.

It seems some are imtmidated by hard working individuals.

Sure, we don't want to turn Canada into another U.S. with tons of underground workers & related problems. If it's up to me, the deport priority should first target the criminals that harms our society.

 

[papasmerf]

So let me get this straight
Canada hates the Portugese?