Dalton's one achievement goes bust

[Moviefan-2]

It's easy to list Dalton McGuinty's failures -- the staggering deficits and debt, failure to address the economy, the Green Energy Act, eHealth, ORNGE, etc., etc.

Indeed, as his nine years in office come to an end, his only real achievement was that he brought (or should that be "bought"?) labour peace in the schools. Now, even that achievement has gone bust, as elementary teachers stage one-day strikes and high school students suffer the loss of extracurriculars.

Dalton's trying to say the one-day elementary teachers' strikes aren't so bad (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...day-walkouts-small-price-to-pay-says-mcguinty) but that's misleading, since he had to pass legislation preventing teachers from taking lengthier strike action.

With his "labour peace" boast now ended, there really isn't much of a legacy left.

 

[oldjones]

It's easy to list Dalton McGuinty's failures -- the staggering deficits and debt, failure to address the economy, the Green Energy Act, eHealth, ORNGE, etc., etc.

Indeed, as his nine years in office come to an end, his only real achievement was that he brought (or should that be "bought"?) labour peace in the schools. Now, even that achievement has gone bust, as elementary teachers stage one-day strikes and high school students suffer the loss of extracurriculars.

Dalton's trying to say the one-day elementary teachers' strikes aren't so bad (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...day-walkouts-small-price-to-pay-says-mcguinty) but that's misleading, since he thought he had to pass legislation preventing teachers from taking lengthier strike action.

With his "labour peace" boast now ended, there really isn't much of a legacy left.

Fixed your post. It was his own petard that hoisted him, not some force of nature. Now that he's got all the teachers saying it isn't about money at all and 0% will be just fine, he's having the same trouble climbing back down to reality that all extremists face—McG an extremist! This 'debate' is in FantasyLand—but in fact the level of disruption has been minor compared to pre-McG times, the rhetoric isn't heated and settlements have been made.

Unfortunately he's now left himself no proper way to undo Bill 115 and make the teachers live up to their words. Not unless he does a Harper and says, "Law, schmaw, we don' need to follow no stinkin' law".

 

[Moviefan-2]

Fixed your post.

Thanks. I didn't mean to say he was "obligated" to do it -- but rather, that he needed the legislation to obtain whatever labour peace still exists in the schools.

 

[oldjones]

Thanks. I didn't mean to say he was "obligated" to do it -- but rather, that he needed the legislation to obtain whatever labour peace still exists in the schools.

And that mistaken notion was what my wordplay was meant to highlight. He thought he needed the legislation is a far cry from anyone demonstrating—or you establishing—that is actually was needed. Thumping the Draft Bill on the table would have done him all the highly arguable good that passing it has. Declarations of war have never promoted peace, labour or otherwise. Conveying your resolute and committed purpose, while listening for real, addressable issues from the other side is what does that.

In fact passing the bill has now hamstrung him, since he has no way to respond to the teachers pronouncements that the legislation is the problem, not the money, and he's prorogued the Legislature.

As in so much of public affairs, the problem is the moronic schoolboy 'them against us' thinking that belongs in pro sports and war and has nothing to do with real life. But it plays on TV better than the give and take of genuine debate does.

 

[basketcase]

...

With his "labour peace" boast now ended, there really isn't much of a legacy left.

How about, "Still better than Mike Harris"?

 

[FAST]

Unions in a candy store

How about, "Still better than Mike Harris"?

He didn't achieve shit,...he simply opened up the vault to the teachers union,...that is NOT an a acomplishment,...even the NDP could do that.

FAST

 

[Moviefan-2]

How about, "Still better than Mike Harris"?

Certainly not.

 

[oldjones]

He didn't achieve shit,...he simply opened up the vault to the teachers union,...that is NOT an a acomplishment,...even the NDP could do that.

FAST

And all thru his post,
Not one fact was stirring,
Tho' FAST ignores most,
…

Your "…opened up the vault" was so poetic, I couldn't resist. But it's entirely fact-free. Unless you're allergic, do please supply a bit of supporting detail.

 

[FAST]

Paid in full

And all thru his post,
Not one fact was stirring,
Tho' FAST ignores most,
…

Your "…opened up the vault" was so poetic, I couldn't resist. But it's entirely fact-free. Unless you're allergic, do please supply a bit of supporting detail.

How about you confirming that the teachers did NOT get better contracts than the Conservatives,... after the Libs promised the world to their union to get elected.

Fact,...the ONLY way you get labour peace with the union,...is to "open the vault", which is exactly what they did.
Problem is now,…its empty !!!

FAST

 

[train]

I keep saying this - worst Premier in the history of the Province......by a wide margin.

 

[FAST]

Check the pants in the closet

I keep saying this - worst Premier in the history of the Province......by a wide margin.

What did you expect,...his wife is a teacher !!!

FAST

 

[oldjones]

How about you confirming that the teachers did NOT get better contracts than the Conservatives,... after the Libs promised the world to their union to get elected.

Fact,...the ONLY way you get labour peace with the union,...is to "open the vault", which is exactly what they did.
Problem is now,…its empty !!!

FAST

Still 100% fact-free. Magna opened the vault, did they? And the concessions and rollback the autoworkers took to bailout GM and Chrysler were "opening the vault" as well? Or is that "ONLY" of yours as meaningless as your 'fact'.

 

[cye]

Mcguinty clearly bought the teachers support and was pissed when they wouldn't help him out of his deficit mess. The teachers were fools they should have taken the freeze and ran because Hudak if he wins will cut positions and wages. You can say education improved under Mcguinty but it was paid for with revenue from a low dollar and an American economy super charged on credit. The teachers should read Satyjit Das and settle for the possible not a principal that will crumble anyway under shrinking government revenues and the possibility of another credit downgrade.
If everything Mcguinty did is undone because he went to far he is just Mike Harris in the middle.

 

[FAST]

1 + 0= 1 ... except for civil servants

Still 100% fact-free. Magna opened the vault, did they? And the concessions and rollback the autoworkers took to bailout GM and Chrysler were "opening the vault" as well? Or is that "ONLY" of yours as meaningless as your 'fact'.

A few more FACTS for you !!!

You bring up another VERY good example of THE VAULT being empty,...problem is,...your example is for PRIVATE sector unions,...although it is also a good example of how the real world shakes out when reality happens !!!

As far as Magna goes,...I'll try to enlighten you, what Stronach did when the CAW world was going to shit,...even BUZZ BRAIN was smart enough to get out,...was to explain to enough intelligent employees that forming a union that had the right to strike, was only going to REDUCE their life style.
Guess what happened,...intelligence ruled,...a union WITHOUT the right to strike, end result...far better than the little 3.

So why don't public sector unions have to face reality,...is it because they feel they are entitled,...or ignorant, or arrogant, or just plain stupid ???

FAST

 

[Moviefan-2]

So why don't public sector unions have to face reality,...is it because they feel they are entitled,...or ignorant, or arrogant, or just plain stupid ???

Actually, public sector unions don't have much pressure to face reality.

Their workplaces never face any risk of going out of business. Therefore, there isn't much incentive to be reasonable.

 

[FAST]

And their teaching our kids

Mcguinty clearly bought the teachers support and was pissed when they wouldn't help him out of his deficit mess. The teachers were fools they should have taken the freeze and ran because Hudak if he wins will cut positions and wages. You can say education improved under Mcguinty but it was paid for with revenue from a low dollar and an American economy super charged on credit. The teachers should read Satyjit Das and settle for the possible not a principal that will crumble anyway under shrinking government revenues and the possibility of another credit downgrade.
If everything Mcguinty did is undone because he went to far he is just Mike Harris in the middle.

We keep on hearing here how bright and educated teachers are,...problem is,...they are just as dumb as the garbage collectors under Chairman Miller.

He gave them what ever they wanted,...he called them,..."our employees",...but when he over spent, and asked to be reasonable,...the losers went on strike.
I'll never forget how furious he was,...thought he was going to have a stroke on the news.

Gee,...their much better off now.

FAST

 

[omegaphallic]

The vault is empty because the rich and thier corporations already looted it and left nothing as usual for ordinary Canadians. Wait shouldn't we be enjoying the benifits of all the taxes cuts that would provide Jobs? Oh wait the jobs only existed in the fantasies of the right.

Maybe Harper will let Dalton hirer Forgien Temporary workers to teach students. Sure you kids won't be able to read and write in English or French, but thier Manderin will be flawless I'm sure

In all serious Cye you don't need to worry about Hudak, Andrea will win the next Provincial election, even Tories can't stand Hudak.

Here's my prediction. Sandra runs and wins the Liberal leadership race via connections. She then runs in Windsor during a byelection and loses it to the NDP. A General Election then occurs and shattered Liberal supporters drift over to Andra Horwath who wins and becomes Premier.

 

[cye]

The Tories don't really like Hudak but I think two things could happen. Timbit keeps his rural seats and maybe picks up a few more while the NDP hurt the liberals in the urban areas making Tiny Tim a small minority victor with no easy alliance or Andrea cuddles up to Wynne and we wait a year for an election.

 

[oldjones]

Actually, public sector unions don't have much pressure to face reality.

Their workplaces never face any risk of going out of business. Therefore, there isn't much incentive to be reasonable.

Well said. I was sure if I waited long enough, that someone would offer something insightful about this situation and the public sector in general.

Allied with that is the direct and vocal pressure from the tax-paying 'customer base' since public sector services are so often both essential and monopoly-based. Nor does it make for more rational consideration that their price is so often hidden and bundled in an overall tax collected at some distant time. No private sector boss ever faced anything from her customers like the push-back a Mayor or Premier faces from voters and taxpayers.

But then Mayors and Premiers get to ace their job interviews with promises like Magic Gravy. And they can get back to work laws passed and make all the voters happy again. No automaker CEO can do either.

I think it's highly useful to realize the public and private sectors are very, very different. But it's not at all useful to imagine only one of them is real. Neither David Miller, nor Rob Ford, nor Dalton McGuinty would agree with you, never mind any of the union members or executive they've had their troubles with.

 

[basketcase]

How about you confirming that the teachers did NOT get better contracts than the Conservatives,... after the Libs promised the world to their union to get elected.

Fact,...the ONLY way you get labour peace with the union,...is to "open the vault", which is exactly what they did.
Problem is now,…its empty !!!

FAST

If I remember right, teachers had a pay freeze under Rae and Harris. Under McG they got raises a little above inflation (and comparable with everyone else in the public sector). Doesn't sound so vault like.