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Customer takes Bell to court and wins.

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Customer takes Bell to court and wins, as judge agrees telecom giant can't promise a price, then change it.
Contract law expert says Ontario case could be grounds for class-action lawsuit:

A Toronto man is elated after a deputy judge ruled that a verbal contract he made with a Bell customer service agent trumps the contract the telecom later emailed him, noting prices could increase.

In a judgment issued last month in a Toronto small claims court, Deputy Judge William C. De Lucia said that Bell's attempt to impose new terms after a verbal contract guaranteeing a monthly price for 24 months had been struck was "high-handed, arbitrary and unacceptable."

It all started in November 2016, when David Ramsay called a Bell customer service representative to inquire about TV and internet services.

The sales agent told Ramsay he could get Bell's Fibe TV and internet services "for $112.90 a month for 24 months" and then said he'd get an "email confirmation of everything that was just discussed."

But when the email arrived, it said prices were actually "subject to change" and that Bell was planning to increase its price for internet service by $5, two months later.

"I was stunned and appalled to find these buried terms in an email," says Ramsay. "I had a contract, and this ain't that contract."

Ramsay called Bell to say the emailed contract was different from the verbal contract he'd made on the phone.

In a move that was pivotal to his legal case, he requested a transcript of the call in which the customer service rep promised him a fixed price for two years.

"They kept saying, 'Everyone has to pay those price increases,'" says Ramsay. "'Everyone has to pay.'"

Undeterred, Ramsay filed a complaint with the Commission for Complaints for Telecom-television Services (the CCTS), a moderator between customers and telecom providers.

In a lengthy email exchange, a spokesperson for the CCTS insisted that Bell had the right to increase prices and since the telecom had notified Ramsay of this fact — as well as an upcoming price increase — it ruled that the telecom provider met its obligations and no further investigation was warranted.

The CCTS closed Ramsay's file.

"I couldn't believe it," says Ramsay. "They just refused to consider my argument that I had a verbal contract. I even sent them a link to that section of the law, which they ignored."

'There's a principle at stake here'

Ramsay had consulted a couple of lawyer friends, who told him they thought he was on the right track, that a verbal agreement was binding.

"Even though the dollar amount was small," says Ramsay, "I got on my white horse and thought, 'There's a principle at stake here. Let's take them to small claims court and see what happens.'"

Industry-wide problem

Ramsay also figured he wasn't the only one who had the same concerns about Bell's pricing, in part because of stories he'd seen by Go Public and other media reports.

Go Public has received over 100 similar complaints from customers who say Bell sales agents promised them a guaranteed monthly price, only to receive an emailed contract where it said prices could go up.
In a joint Go Public/Marketplace investigation earlier this year, sales agents for Bell were repeatedly caught on hidden camera falsely promising customers that prices for TV, internet and home phone deals would not change for 24 months.

Customers from other telecoms — such as Rogers and Telus — have written to say they, too, were promised a price by a sales rep only to receive an email mentioning that prices could change.

According to a recent report from the CCTS, between August 2017 and January 2018 the number 1 complaint it received — from almost 2,000 customers — was that telecom providers gave misleading information or did not disclose all contract terms.

Bell sought confidentiality agreement

Before they got to court, Bell offered Ramsay money to drop the case — $300, roughly the amount Ramsay estimated the telecom would be over-billing him for two years. He declined.

"I wanted a judge to rule on the merits of this case," he says. "And if I happened to win, I thought it'd be a useful case for others to know about."

Three weeks before the court date, Bell contacted Ramsay again. He was offered $1,000 to settle, but was required to sign a confidentiality agreement. Again, Ramsay declined.

"I thought the merits of the case were good," he says. "Not to get too self-righteous, but I thought it was a battle worth having. So I said, 'Onward, ho!'"

Off to small claims court

Representing himself, Ramsay appeared in a Toronto small claims court on March 19, armed with what he calls his "smoking gun" — the transcript of his conversation with the Bell sales rep.

He highlighted two specific comments by that agent — one in which she told him "Your total cost for the 24 months will be $112.90 per month" and "You're going to get an email confirmation of everything that was just discussed."

Bell stuck to its argument that it had emailed contract details shortly after Ramsay's call, so the contents of that email were what should be binding. It also said the customer service agent Ramsay spoke to did not know about a planned price increase, which is why that wasn't mentioned, and claimed that, because Ramsay had continued with Bell's service, he was essentially agreeing to the telecom's contract terms.

De Lucia was not swayed by those arguments, saying in his reasons for judgment, "I find that Bell can not unilaterally insert or impose new terms. Any imposition of new terms ... is unenforceable."
De Lucia said Bell has the right to impose price changes, but not during a contract when a monthly price has been agreed upon.

"To alter or change the terms, as Bell has requested," said De Lucia, "would be grossly unfair, grossly prejudicial to the plaintiff and unconscionable."

The deputy judge ordered Bell to pay Ramsay $1,110 to cover the cost of damages, his time, inconvenience and miscellaneous costs.

Bell won't comment on judgment

Go Public asked Bell for an on-camera interview, but the the request was declined.

It also refused to comment on the deputy judge's findings, and would not address complaints by other customers who say they were not [verbally] told prices were subject to change when they purchased services.

In an email, Bell's senior manager of media relations admitted the call centre rep did not tell Ramsay that prices were subject to change and said Bell had "informed the customer service team involved and they are using it as a coaching opportunity."

The Bell spokesperson also said the company had offered to cancel Ramsay's contract without penalty.

Ramsay told Go Public that he didn't cancel, because he wanted the services at the price he had [verbally] negotiated.

CCTS changes tune

In an apparent turnaround, when Go Public contacted the CCTS to discuss Ramsay's victory, commissioner Howard Maker said the organization believes an oral contract is binding.

"If a customer calls a service provider on the phone and they make a deal for a package of services for a fixed price, that's a deal," said Maker.

It's also the opposite of what the CCTS employee handling Ramsay's case determined.
"We are human," said Maker. "So did we make an error? Maybe ... we'll do our analysis ... and we'll take appropriate steps."

Ramsay wants the CCTS to re-open similar cases where staff erroneously told customers they had to pay price increases when a telecom sales rep didn't inform them of those changes before locking them into a contract.

"I'm sure they have hundreds of cases just like mine," says Ramsay. "So I think it's incumbent on the CCTS to take notice of this and review a bunch of those cases."

Grounds for class action

Meanwhile, an expert on contract law says he foresees a lot of consumer interest in this "David vs. Goliath" case.

"It should really make consumers feel very confident," says Anthony Daimsis, a contract law professor at the University of Ottawa.

"Should they choose to all get together, instead of having to deal with these claims one at a time, they could probably make a very good case for one big class action."
Even though the case was heard in small claims court, Daimsis says the judgment was "persuasive" and likely how a higher court would rule.

Daimsis considers the judgment a warning to all telecom providers.

"What it should signal to other outfits that are operating this way, is that this is not the way Canadian courts will accept how larger parties act with consumers."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bell-customer-wins-court-battle-over-contract-1.4635118
 

K Douglas

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Jan 5, 2005
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Props to this man. I endured the same crap with Bell a few years ago. Agreed verbally with the sales agent on a fixed price for 3 years for office telephone and internet. Within 6 months they tried to jack up the price by almost 10%. So I just continued to pay what I agreed upon and a few months later Bell cut me off. I fought them for almost 2 months and they finally agreed to waive all increased fees and late charges and re connect my office phone. Every time a new increase would show up I'd call a specific person at Bell and she'd get it them to reverse it. At end of the 3 year contract I swore I would never use Bell again. They're cheats and liars.
 

Occasionally

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May 22, 2011
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Utility companies are technically correct, but it's the shady sales reps that get you.

What the asshole sales guy will tell you is..... "I guarantee you a discount where your bundle is $150/month"

To everyone, it sounds like $150/month. Fixed for 12 or 24 months or whatever the term is.

But what the rep does is apply a "Discount" of let's say -$50/mth, so the bundle is $150/month instead of the regular price of $200/month. You read the fine print, and you think his word overrides whatever piece of paper he has that has terms pre-printed at the bottom. Wrong.

That -$50 discount does apply and is a fixed amount. But the regular price may go up $20, but the discount is still $50. So what happens is it changes from $220/month to $170/month.

In order to get around this, you either complain, or ensure the asshead guarantees you a totally fixed price, where any price increases don't apply. Good luck with that.
 

JaimeWolf

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Aug 19, 2017
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Props to this man. I endured the same crap with Bell a few years ago. Agreed verbally with the sales agent on a fixed price for 3 years for office telephone and internet. Within 6 months they tried to jack up the price by almost 10%. So I just continued to pay what I agreed upon and a few months later Bell cut me off. I fought them for almost 2 months and they finally agreed to waive all increased fees and late charges and re connect my office phone. Every time a new increase would show up I'd call a specific person at Bell and she'd get it them to reverse it. At end of the 3 year contract I swore I would never use Bell again. They're cheats and liars.
Of course, if you try to cancel within the "contract" period, Bell or Rogers will try to slaughter you with cancellation charges. But when it's their turn to jack up the price, they do it at any time.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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This guy is my hero.

Bell has pulled that stunt on me too. You strike an agreement and 6 months into it they move the yard stick.

Cudos to this guy for seeing it through.
 
"high-handed, arbitrary and unacceptable." INDEED there should be a class action lawsuit against these companies .... AND THE CRTC. It is because our Government PROTECTS these scumbags & PROVENTS the U.S.A. companies from coming in & providing REAL competition .... That this crap happens & will continue. Also Canadians are too nice . They need to fight back a whole lot more!!
 

wally777

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Sep 16, 2015
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This guy is my hero.

Bell has pulled that stunt on me too. You strike an agreement and 6 months into it they move the yard stick.

Cudos to this guy for seeing it through.
+1!!!

I've been pissed for so long about it but caved when they adjusted my pricing to reflect. Back then I though if this happens to enough people who are as upset as me, there could be a class action suit! I'd join it in a second! Being told one thing, then locking in and seeing your rates go up? That's crazy! Why the hell would I lock in then?
 

IM469

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Jul 5, 2012
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"Undeterred, Ramsay filed a complaint with the Commission for Complaints for Telecom-television Services (the CCTS), a moderator between customers and telecom providers.

In a lengthy email exchange, a spokesperson for the CCTS insisted that Bell had the right to increase prices and since the telecom had notified Ramsay of this fact — as well as an upcoming price increase — it ruled that the telecom provider met its obligations and no further investigation was warranted."
Canada shares a similar characteristic that our cousins to the south share - filling Industry Regulator/ Arbitrator positions with industry hacks from the same companies they are suppose to be controlling.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Has anybody used Primus? Their prices look tgtbt.
I have my phone and internet bundle with Primus that was purchased at COSTCO. They gave me a sweetheart of a deal at the COSTCO store and told me that it was the last day that the deal was available. But then the Primus customer service called me up a couple of days later to say that the deal did not exist and it was actually $10 more expensive. I did fight it all the way, and then they eventually gave it to me. But after the contract was up, they started putting the rates up by $5 per annum. Their excuse - the costs have gone up!!
 

The "Bone" Ranger

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Aug 5, 2006
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I have my phone and internet bundle with Primus that was purchased at COSTCO. They gave me a sweetheart of a deal at the COSTCO store and told me that it was the last day that the deal was available. But then the Primus customer service called me up a couple of days later to say that the deal did not exist and it was actually $10 more expensive. I did fight it all the way, and then they eventually gave it to me. But after the contract was up, they started putting the rates up by $5 per annum. Their excuse - the costs have gone up!!
Do you mind sharing what your monthly rate all in before taxes is? I checked the website and it looks like it will be about $70 plus tax. Right now I am north of $150 with Bell after taxes. I called them and told them I can't pay that much and they wasted fifteen minutes of my time and said they can't do anything.
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Did have the Bell sales reps going door to door in my neighbourhood. They offered a great deal but I told them that I have to think it over as I had really bad experiences in the past with Bell. They came back the next day to try and get me to sign the contract, and so I turned them down. All the same this deal was too good to be true, although they categorically said that it was just a one year contract and rates are fixed for the whole year. My neighbour bought it and then noticed that the special rate was for just three months and then the rates went up by a certain amount. He was really ticked off and is still disputing it with the customer service.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Do you mind sharing what your monthly rate all in before taxes is? I checked the website and it looks like it will be about $70 plus tax. Right now I am north of $150 with Bell after taxes. I called them and told them I can't pay that much and they wasted fifteen minutes of my time and said they can't do anything.
It was initially $82 including taxes and unlimited downloads as well as Long Distance calls to Canada and the USA. The downside is a speed of just 7 mbps.
If you have always been with Bell, they have probably been raising the rates every year and that is why you are paying that much. Best to change suppliers every times the contract runs out.
 

The "Bone" Ranger

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Aug 5, 2006
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Thanks - you are right changing suppliers is the way to go because these companies do not value loyalty. Bell's cousin Virgin has a good deal of 50 per month for internet.

It was initially $82 including taxes and unlimited downloads as well as Long Distance calls to Canada and the USA. The downside is a speed of just 7 mbps.
If you have always been with Bell, they have probably been raising the rates every year and that is why you are paying that much. Best to change suppliers every times the contract runs out.
 

bigshot

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Aug 16, 2003
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I know a guy who had received one of those telemarketing calls from Bell offering an unusually sweet deal, so of course he took it. A few days later he got a call from the scumbags at Bell saying that they would not honour the deal as the price was too low. So how in hell can a large corporation offer you a contracted price and then just change their mind?

These guys need to be brought down a few notches. And where is the consumer's protection in all of this. I applaud this guy for taking Bell to task, but not everyone has the ability or the resources to keep up this fight. I wish my friend would have gotten more aggressive with then at the time and kept their feet to the fire.

I had a big fight over billing with these jerks many years ago and fought for months to get it corrected. I decided to change service providers and no longer have any Bell services. A few months after leaving, they called me and told me that they would correct the situation, so why not come home to Bell. Yes, after changing all of my records and informing all of my customers of the change, printing need business cards and such, sure, I'd be happy to drop my deal with Rogers and any penalties that might be in place. What kind of drugs are these guys taking? They could have done the right thing in the first place, but their default setting is to screw the customer first and worry about the fall out later...
 

Mable

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Sep 20, 2004
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I would like to know how one gets their hands on the transcript of conversations one has with the operatives at bell, or any other institution for that matter. That was critical to him winning the suit.

Conversations are "recorded/monitored for quality control" we are always told; but how do you get a copy of them?
 
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