Crown Appeals Penalties In Death Of Cab Driver

[Tarkus]

I think what the judge meant here is that these two made a very serious error in judgement with what they did while behind the wheel, -- compared to a drug dealer or a gangbanger that shoots up people randomly, etc.

So they killed someone when they 'raced' or drove fast competing with one another. Well, people also get killed in car accidents because someone else wasn't paying attention to driving, but instead doing their make-up, reading a book, having a full course meal and steering with their knees ..etc. But that rarely ever makes the news.

So maybe thats what was meant by the judge, and no disrespect was meant to the cab driver or his family.

Good productive people can sometimes make bad decisions that sometimes have very bad results. That doesn't mean they should be included with the those that constantly, willingly, and intentionally want to cause harm and grief to others.

I bet many here haven't been angels on the road either. And given circumstances, very tragic things could have taken place at one time or another as a result.

'So they killed someone while they raced'?

Wow. This is not a situation where two people were unaware of the potential consequences of their actions but just made an error in judgment. They were 'racing', (how else do you describe their action up that stretch of Mt. Pleasant except to say they were either aggressively racing each or or racing the street), and this issue was already big news long before their actions. They were just spared the automatic racing charge by getting into the accident before the law was changed.

I think what is particularly galling to the public is that with all the concern about street racing these two young men of privilege felt that the law probably did not apply to them... oh wait I guess they were right?

On another note .... I have noticed that some cabbies also drive quite aggressively and almost seemingly get in your path to the point that you almost have to mash on your brakes. So I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here, and say that yes, 'legally', those two should not have done what they did, but I suspect that the cab driver may, as usual have darted infront of their path, as usual, withought taking full stock of the situation, probably thinking that these two were not going much faster than people usually do on this street and he would pull out aggressively as he usually did, and make it out just in time. But didn't.
I suspect that, taking legalities aside, both parties are to blame for not using common sense on the road.

In the agreed statement of facts it was pointed out that the cabbie did nothing wrong except for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Besides when you are travelling at 120km in a 50km zone... I don't have a lot of sympathy for the misbehaviours of others.

 

[anon1]

Who was it that said "history is caused by class warfare"?

If these two rich kids get off, does that mean that the guy who shot those other two rich kids on Niagara Street recently should get off too?

 

[Tarkus]

Who was it that said "history is caused by class warfare"?

If these two rich kids get off, does that mean that the guy who shot those other two rich kids on Niagara Street recently should get off too?

He's had to provide his financials first.

 

[Thousand]

The judge blamed the incident on excessive speed and poor judgment, but took no account of the fact the two appeared to be racing each other. Their lawyers had always denied they were competing in a race and believe the punishment fits the crime. "It sends the absolute right message that we won't punish young men with no records who weren't drinking," maintains Todd White. "The law in this country says drinking and driving is the most dangerous driving you can do. But when two men are speeding, no hint of alcohol or drugs, their ability to operate their motor vehicles was not impaired ... to send two young 18-year-olds to the penitentiary in circumstances such as this, I think would be an outrage."

He's adamant that not bringing street racing into the equation was the right thing to do. "The agreed statement of facts was clear. This was not a racing case. A racing case is when two drivers make a decision ... to compete, to race, to get to some location fast."


http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_11482.aspx
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From looking at this response to the media, it seems Mr. Todd White downplayed the fact that these kids killed a person and insist that what these kids did was not the most dangerous driving a person can do, even though it caused death.

This is truly sad and disgusting.

 

[Tarkus]

Racing...

The judge blamed the incident on excessive speed and poor judgment, but took no account of the fact the two appeared to be racing each other. Their lawyers had always denied they were competing in a race and believe the punishment fits the crime. "It sends the absolute right message that we won't punish young men with no records who weren't drinking," maintains Todd White. "The law in this country says drinking and driving is the most dangerous driving you can do. But when two men are speeding, no hint of alcohol or drugs, their ability to operate their motor vehicles was not impaired ... to send two young 18-year-olds to the penitentiary in circumstances such as this, I think would be an outrage."

He's adamant that not bringing street racing into the equation was the right thing to do. "The agreed statement of facts was clear. This was not a racing case. A racing case is when two drivers make a decision ... to compete, to race, to get to some location fast."

I fully get the concept that under our legal system everyone has the right to a strong defence. I recall an interview with a lawyer that defended some real sicko that he believes it is a civic duty to provide a good strong defence since a failure to do so may result in an appeals reversal down the road. I get all this and agree with all this.

But since when did is become fashionable, and or legal as they are officers of the court, to starting lying to or misleading the media/public? They stand there with all the microphones in their face with this look of total outrage as if somehow we the public just don't get it and why are we all worried about prosecuting their client who admittedly raped and then dismembered a four year old girl when clearly she was either asking for it or probably would have grown up to be the next Hitler anyway. They weren't drinking and driving? Why not suggest they get the Order of Canada for also not firing hand guns out the window since that a real serious problem as well?

When two teens are traveling up a somewhat isolated road, (and yes at night Mt. Pleasant between Eglinton, (especially Blythwood), and Lawrence is quite deserted at night, at the speeds they were going does not represent in any manner an organized and planned effort to get from location A to location B. Were that the case they would seen the headlights of the taxi and quickly reduced speed except that reducing speed would have meant losing the race... err whoops.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_11482.aspx
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From looking at this response to the media, it seems Mr. Todd White downplayed the fact that these kids killed a person and insist that what these kids did was not the most dangerous driving a person can do, even though it caused death.

This is truly sad and disgusting.

But you have it all wrong. These are two kids that are going to contribute to society, they are not criminals, and the immigrant taxi driver... well is he really a person anyway?

 

[nottyboi]

Look, the role of the court here is to find the best outcome for our society as a whole. Many people scream "throw them in jail" like bleating sheep. WTF will that accomplish? Also, did anyone consider the possibility that the taxi driver did bare SOME responsibility for his fate? After all, he did make a left turn into oncoming traffic. Justice would be if the taxi driver could be made to live again, real justice is not possible. What we are left with, is trying to create the best possible outcome from a terrible incident, and to ensure improper behavior is corrected. Everyone who has driven for any length of time has done something stupid, and if you claim you have not, you are probably not AWARE of the stupid things you have done (which makes it worse BTW). People want to hang these kids because they are rich kids driving mercedes, lets face it. Just another form of bigotry IMHO. All this silly frenzy about race is pathetic. The incident up north where a drunk driver turned in front of some kids and they were charged, I found that conviction particularly unjust. Drunk driving vs speeding?? WTF!!

 

[anon1]

He's had to provide his financials first.

Total assets: 1 Schwinn and 1 Glock

 

[tboy]

Look, the role of the court here is to find the best outcome for our society as a whole. Many people scream "throw them in jail" like bleating sheep. WTF will that accomplish? Also, did anyone consider the possibility that the taxi driver did bare SOME responsibility for his fate? After all, he did make a left turn into oncoming traffic. Justice would be if the taxi driver could be made to live again, real justice is not possible. What we are left with, is trying to create the best possible outcome from a terrible incident, and to ensure improper behavior is corrected. Everyone who has driven for any length of time has done something stupid, and if you claim you have not, you are probably not AWARE of the stupid things you have done (which makes it worse BTW). People want to hang these kids because they are rich kids driving mercedes, lets face it. Just another form of bigotry IMHO. All this silly frenzy about race is pathetic. The incident up north where a drunk driver turned in front of some kids and they were charged, I found that conviction particularly unjust. Drunk driving vs speeding?? WTF!!

So do you think the best possible outcome for our society was to teach those two kids that if you have money, you get a lesser penality for your errors?

As stated, if you don't have the $$ for a good lawyer (aka poor) they'd be doing jail time. This is why they have sentencing regulations so that everyone is supposed to be treated equally under the law but we ALL know this isn't the case.

I think what the real problem is that the message isn't getting through and while yes, we've all done stupid things, we didn't kill anyone!

 

[Stoo]

I think what the real problem is that the message isn't getting through and while yes, we've all done stupid things, we didn't kill anyone!

Actually lots of people doing stupid things behind the wheel of the car and they DO kill people and they DON'T go to jail.

As someone else pointed out, the cabbie shares part of the blame. He misjudged the speed of the other car and turned in front of it. If these guys had not been speeding, and the outcome had been the same, they wouldn't have even been charged. So really, their crime is speeding... not "murder"... And who here has never driven too fast and gotten away with it?

This is an accident brought about by two drivers BOTH making errors in judgment. The cabbie obviously paid a much more severe penalty for his bad decision.

Taking two kids who probably have promising lives ahead of them, and slapping them in prison for years is going to do little more than make real criminals out of them and ruin their lives too. The justice system isn't about exacting revenge. I don't disagree that their sentence should have been more harsh...

There is no good outcome to this situation. But shit like this happens every day on the highways. Drivers do stupid things and other people die as a result. The bad drivers "generally" get sentenced in ways that must seem incredibly lax to the families of the victims. At least they should be able to seek financial compensation from the "at fault" driver's insurance.

 

[nottyboi]

So do you think the best possible outcome for our society was to teach those two kids that if you have money, you get a lesser penality for your errors?

As stated, if you don't have the $$ for a good lawyer (aka poor) they'd be doing jail time. This is why they have sentencing regulations so that everyone is supposed to be treated equally under the law but we ALL know this isn't the case.

I think what the real problem is that the message isn't getting through and while yes, we've all done stupid things, we didn't kill anyone!

Show me some proof they got of easy? House arrest seems quite common in these cases. It was a plea bargin. As I said, a trial would consider if the cab driver bore any of the fault. Sure our stupid actions may not have killed anyone, but that is more a chance outcome. The death of someone does not decide the penalty, it is the INTENT and CULPABILITY that decide that. BTW, yes we do want to teach our kids that money is useful stuff and without it you are screwed. (or in the case of this board not screwed lol)

 

[nottyboi]

From looking at this response to the media, it seems Mr. Todd White downplayed the fact that these kids killed a person and insist that what these kids did was not the most dangerous driving a person can do, even though it caused death.

This is truly sad and disgusting.

Can you say conclusively that the cab driver's actions played no role in the accident? He did, after all, turn into oncoming traffic where he had no right of way. I'm not sure of the exact speeds involved, but in a t-bone accident, one does not have to be travelling that fast to kill. I wonder if the airbag black boxes were able to provide the exact speed at impact....

 

[nottyboi]

For those that get seduced by public hysteria and cries for vengence disguised as cries for justice:

http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/Crime/article/460704

 

[Tarkus]

Blaming the victim...

Look, the role of the court here is to find the best outcome for our society as a whole. Many people scream "throw them in jail" like bleating sheep. WTF will that accomplish? Also, did anyone consider the possibility that the taxi driver did bare SOME responsibility for his fate? After all, he did make a left turn into oncoming traffic. Justice would be if the taxi driver could be made to live again, real justice is not possible. What we are left with, is trying to create the best possible outcome from a terrible incident, and to ensure improper behavior is corrected. Everyone who has driven for any length of time has done something stupid, and if you claim you have not, you are probably not AWARE of the stupid things you have done (which makes it worse BTW). People want to hang these kids because they are rich kids driving mercedes, lets face it. Just another form of bigotry IMHO. All this silly frenzy about race is pathetic. The incident up north where a drunk driver turned in front of some kids and they were charged, I found that conviction particularly unjust. Drunk driving vs speeding?? WTF!!

Once again, and I wish people would take the time to learn about a topic before responding, the two convicted agreed to the statement of facts that they were traveling 120 km/h plus. To suggest the taxi driver turned into oncoming traffic and as such bears responsibility is absurd. At the speeds they were traveling they removed all ability for him to determine a safe distance. This is why people get hit trying to cross the 401 on foot... once the speed reference becomes double you do not have the ability make a rational judgement. They would have come from a curve blind spot from where he was hit and a rational judgment would have told him he tons of time to make his turn... unless of course they were driving at 140 km/h.

As per the suggestion that people want them lynched because they are a couple of rich kids is playing right into their lawyers hand. Is their behaviour any more reprehensible than two poor kids who performed the same act in two Hondas? Of course not but nor is it any less and to use the excuse that due to their position of privilege that they will someone have a 'more important life' and thus should be spared penalty is in an example of justice gone wrong.

I wonder what will happen to Ravi Badwhar, Prab Multani and Naumin Nusrat who were involved in the death of the truck driver up near Barrie? It should prove interesting to see if they are considered as having lots of potential? Or do their last names and the fact that they killed a white man more indicative of what will result, (keeping in mind I am fully behind these three facing full justice... just like the our two privileged boys).

 

[LancsLad]

Once again, and I wish people would take the time to learn about a topic before responding, the two convicted agreed to the statement of facts that they were traveling 120 km/h plus. To suggest the taxi driver turned into oncoming traffic and as such bears responsibility is absurd. At the speeds they were traveling they removed all ability for him to determine a safe distance. This is why people get hit trying to cross the 401 on foot... once the speed reference becomes double you do not have the ability make a rational judgement. They would have come from a curve blind spot from where he was hit and a rational judgment would have told him he tons of time to make his turn... unless of course they were driving at 140 km/h.

As per the suggestion that people want them lynched because they are a couple of rich kids is playing right into their lawyers hand. Is their behaviour any more reprehensible than two poor kids who performed the same act in two Hondas? Of course not but nor is it any less and to use the excuse that due to their position of privilege that they will someone have a 'more important life' and thus should be spared penalty is in an example of justice gone wrong.

I wonder what will happen to Ravi Badwhar, Prab Multani and Naumin Nusrat who were involved in the death of the truck driver up near Barrie? It should prove interesting to see if they are considered as having lots of potential? Or do their last names and the fact that they killed a white man more indicative of what will result, (keeping in mind I am fully behind these three facing full justice... just like the our two privileged boys).

Interesting similarities in the two cases, yet many differences as well.

Hy 400 case. three muslames out for a toot kill a truck driver . (truck driver is white as you mention but that has no bearing on the case)

mt pleasant case . two immigrants of wealth kill another immigrant taxi driver.


This should not be about race. All 5 of them should be severely punished. I hope the cabbies family gets a major civil suit win against the punks families, and they do a long stretch in the can, so that other cons ( of woody's persuasion) can really stretch their cans. pun intentional.

The three muslames should get a trial then be toe tagged and shipped back collect to wakistanabia. Their families should also face civil damages.

They knew what they were doing and should face up to it.


.

 

[JohnLarue]

Race should not be an issue.
It is tragic for the cabbies family.
I will add that I have seen many a cab driver make very aggressive U-Turns, left hand turns ad I have be cut off by cab drivers many times.
I think they must be quite aggressive drivers just to make a living

None of us saw what happened that day, so it may be best to let our legal system sort it out in due course & hope what ever punishment they receive is reflective of their crime/ bad judgment

 

[nottyboi]

Once again, and I wish people would take the time to learn about a topic before responding, the two convicted agreed to the statement of facts that they were traveling 120 km/h plus. To suggest the taxi driver turned into oncoming traffic and as such bears responsibility is absurd. At the speeds they were traveling they removed all ability for him to determine a safe distance. This is why people get hit trying to cross the 401 on foot... once the speed reference becomes double you do not have the ability make a rational judgement. They would have come from a curve blind spot from where he was hit and a rational judgment would have told him he tons of time to make his turn... unless of course they were driving at 140 km/h.

As per the suggestion that people want them lynched because they are a couple of rich kids is playing right into their lawyers hand. Is their behaviour any more reprehensible than two poor kids who performed the same act in two Hondas? Of course not but nor is it any less and to use the excuse that due to their position of privilege that they will someone have a 'more important life' and thus should be spared penalty is in an example of justice gone wrong.

I wonder what will happen to Ravi Badwhar, Prab Multani and Naumin Nusrat who were involved in the death of the truck driver up near Barrie? It should prove interesting to see if they are considered as having lots of potential? Or do their last names and the fact that they killed a white man more indicative of what will result, (keeping in mind I am fully behind these three facing full justice... just like the our two privileged boys).

What makes you think a "Statement of facts" has anything to do with facts? The only case in which such an agreement would be struck, is in a plea bargin, ergo, if they felt the sentence was reasonable, they would agree to any set of facts. I think you should brush up on our justice system. I think you'd be pretty surprised how little truth and facts have to do with any outcome. It all depends on who can distort the evidence more effectively. How can you equate what they did to what the kids drving the Hondas did? Frankly, those kids should have received no more then a fine and a dangerous driving conviction as the guy they hit was DRUNK and turned into traffic in a 80 zone where they were accused of going around 120.

 

[nottyboi]

Interesting similarities in the two cases, yet many differences as well.

Hy 400 case. three muslames out for a toot kill a truck driver . (truck driver is white as you mention but that has no bearing on the case)

mt pleasant case . two immigrants of wealth kill another immigrant taxi driver.


This should not be about race. All 5 of them should be severely punished. I hope the cabbies family gets a major civil suit win against the punks families, and they do a long stretch in the can, so that other cons ( of woody's persuasion) can really stretch their cans. pun intentional.

The three muslames should get a trial then be toe tagged and shipped back collect to wakistanabia. Their families should also face civil damages.

They knew what they were doing and should face up to it.


.

When did we start letting retarded brits into the country anyway?

 

[Tarkus]

Typical LEFT/RIGHT Rhetoric

For those that get seduced by public hysteria and cries for vengence disguised as cries for justice:

http://www.thestar.com/SpecialSections/Crime/article/460704

Somewhere along the road thinking got tossed out in favour of dogma.

Did DANIEL GRIMSHIRE deserve to be hung for stealing a loaf of bread? Obviously not.

Does my next door neighbours son deserve to go to jail for a minimum sentence because he is caught with a joint? Obviously not.

Does someone carrying a gun into a public place and shooting it deserve a 10 year minimum sentence? Yeah probably?

Why... because we can recognize the nuances of the crime and even then I would suggest that in the last case an objective board should look at the sentence and see if it makes sense, ie: did Bobby bring a gun to school because he was told he was going to be killed etc.

However we cannot forget that despite your arguments that 'things happen' and 'people screw up' is the corner stone of our legal system. After all what is an attempted murderer other than an jerk who couldn't get it right or was lucky enough to have a dedicated EMS team who saved him from a murder charge. What was the intent?

And yes there is a part of me that says that if you are of a privileged life, (and I include myself in that grouping), that you need to be better. My Maxima GLE can blow away most punk cars but I let them win because I want them to think they won so they are not out hunting for a new victory only now angry. I make sure when I am at Baskin Robbins and the Islamic family in front of me is a bit short that I ask for the privilege to buy such well behaved children whatever they want because I want them to see that not every Infidel is out to get them.

And yes I want two kids of privilege to face the same justice that anyone else would face and not have that justice diminished by ideas that because they come from a wealthy family that they somehow deserve a different path.

 

[Tarkus]

As an offside..

I like your responses but wonder about your tagline.. "too many liberals".

I somehow sense like most Americans you wouldn't recognize one if you tripped over one and even then the term is more mask than reality.

 

[Tarkus]

Cabbies!

Race should not be an issue.
It is tragic for the cabbies family.
I will add that I have seen many a cab driver make very aggressive U-Turns, left hand turns ad I have be cut off by cab drivers many times.
I think they must be quite aggressive drivers just to make a living

None of us saw what happened that day, so it may be best to let our legal system sort it out in due course & hope what ever punishment they receive is reflective of their crime/ bad judgment

Trust me I have no love for cabbies.

Last time I was downtown I got cut off by one who figured he owned the road because he is a cabbie and I said out loud (dumb) "ASS". He pulled in behind me to block me off, (with passengers I may add).

I got out and apparently Mustafah must have figured I was 5'2 and 110 lbs. not 6'1 and 220 lbs. and made a hasty retreat...

So please recognize I am not suggesting for a moment that taxi drivers cause a pile of accidents. Years ago, and by years I mean there were cars, horse and carriages and even some riding Paleosaurs, I delivered bills for an Insurance Company during a postal strike, (no idea how they were supposed to pay except for showing at the office since there was little bill presentation options then), and after a few days of sitting in the car 12-16 hours a day you become an asshole. A victory at a red light where you make it is vital etc.

Still doesn't mean this cabbie did anything and I resent the premise that the dead are being slagged especially since the guilty admitted up front that they screwed up.