Cross Border Price Differences

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
7,133
1
0
In the laboratory.
I thought this article from the Globe and Mail was pretty interesting.

jwm


Parity or not, Canadian shoppers are suckers

October 3, 2007

OTTAWA --
A decade ago, two U.S. economists published an intriguing Federal Reserve Board study of cross-border consumer prices and concluded that price differences between U.S. and Canadian cities defied rational explanation.

Charles Engel (University of Washington) and John Rogers (Federal Reserve) indeed found that these price differences - equivalent to the cost of shipping goods as much as 75,000 miles (120,700 kilometres) - disproved economic theory. They identified an inexplicable "border effect" that, if it exists, means that Canadians shouldn't hold their breath waiting for exchange-rate parity to reduce the price of goods that sell for much less throughout the United States.

Mr. Engel and Mr. Rogers examined the prices of 14 categories of goods in 14 U.S. cities and 10 Canadian cities, using prices from 1990 and from 1995 (before and after the North American free-trade agreement came into effect). They made the necessary adjustments for fluctuating exchange rates, for transportation costs, for labour costs, for tariffs and taxes. They controlled, in other words, for all the usual barriers to trade that influence retail prices.

"With few impediments to trade, goods should flow freely between countries, cities and provinces," they observed. "[Further], a fundamental proposition of economic theory is that identical goods should sell for the same price." They found, instead, that The Law of One Price did not apply across the U.S.-Canada border. They determined that price differences were "much greater" between a given U.S. city and a given Canadian city than they were between two U.S. cities or two Canadian cities equidistant apart. Using the most conservative assumptions, the divergence was equal to an extra 2,500 miles of transportation costs; using the least conservative assumptions, the divergence was equal to an extra 75,000 miles.

In their review of this mysterious "border effect," another two U.S. economists concluded earlier this year (with the Canadian dollar approaching parity with the U.S. dollar) that the Engel-Rogers conclusions may well have minimized the extent of the inexplicable divergences in U.S.-Canadian prices.

Yuriy Gorodnichenko and Linda Tesar (both from the University of Michigan) describe the phenomenon this way: "The magnitude is surprisingly large - some would say unbelievably large. Taken literally, it is odd that Canada and the U.S. can remain such important bilateral trading partners."

They looked at the prices of identical goods on each side of the border and accounted for all the possible costs, leaving the mysterious "border factor" as the only variable. On the U.S. side, this was the equivalent of the cost of shipping the goods an additional 47 kilometres. On the Canadian side, they found product prices were higher by the cost equivalent of shipping goods an additional 108 million kilometres - or 141 round trips to the moon. Unbelievable, indeed.

What's happening here? In what way can the U.S.-Canada border, all by itself, defy fundamental laws of economics? In its own analysis of this mystery, the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco decided that consumer prices are often set by factors that have little to do with actual cost - factors that operate independently of exchange rates.

In principle, the bank observed, retail prices of imported goods should simply reflect the cost of production multiplied by the appropriate exchange rate: "Suppose you were importing a car from South Korea. In a simple economic model, the U.S. price of the car would be the price expressed in Korean won [the Korean currency] multiplied by the dollar-won exchange rate. If the dollar depreciates against the won, then the cost of the car in dollars would increase."

In practice, however, the bank says, "final goods prices are not very sensitive to the exchange rate [and] consumer prices are much less sensitive to exchange rate prices than import prices." Thus, "national borders play a more important role than physical distances in explaining consumer prices."

(The bank observed that, in a globalized economy, distribution costs can be quite significant. It noted that Mattel buys a Barbie doll from a manufacturer in China for $2 [U.S.], sells it in the United States for $10 - but keeps only $1 for itself. The company spends $7 to get the doll to the store shelf where it will be sold.)

What explains the extraordinary divergence in retail prices between the U.S. and Canada? Put it down, in the end, to a deeply entrenched Canadian willingness to pay more for many goods than they are worth. Put it down to consumer laziness. Especially now, Canadians can pay much less by crossing the border or by ordering direct from the U.S. Most Canadians, though, won't.

Merchants will continue to price to the market - to charge what people will pay. This is why we will keep paying intergalactic prices - whether we have parity or beyond.

nreynolds@xplornet.com
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
50,947
9,689
113
Toronto
I think I can summarize that article.

WE'RE A BUNCH OF SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!
 

FOOTSNIFFER

New member
Jan 23, 2004
1,506
0
0
We're creatures of habit, and we're very conservative in that we hesitate to try out new suppliers. That's been my observation.
 

pblues

AKA Exorcist
Dec 21, 2001
1,165
0
36
If you are into books...

I have ordered books from Chapters on line. If you have one of their $15 a year memberships, you get the books at a discount price. I am finding that I am actually paying less than the US cover price. Sweet deal!
 

rcw

I have a Really Cool Wife
Jul 19, 2006
116
0
16
The Really Cool Wife and I come north for your hot strippers, you might as well come south for our prices. Seems like fair trade to me. You pump cash into our economy keeping our prices down so I can afford time in the VIP. :D
 

bananaman

Temporarily humbled
Dec 23, 2002
235
0
0
Anywhere but here
Don't you think that the fact we have 1/10 the population has an effect on prices? Wholesalers and distributors in Canada purchase much smaller volumes than the US wdistributors. That is a factor in pricing for sure.

The other factor is large land mass, with small population. When you ship smaller quantities of anything, it is more expensive per piece than shipping large quantities.

All industries I have been involved with in Canada have built in higher distribution costs, mostly due to the middleman. The wholesaler obviously needs to make money, and does provide a service. They bring in products that otherwise would never see the light of day in Canada because of the smaller population.

Overall, compared to the rest of the world, our prices our competitive. We happen to be next door to a huge economy, with massive buying power, and so our igher prices are more obvious.
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
15,972
2
0
63
way out in left field
Good article Morrice but can I make a comment? Please use black for your type colour from now on. The low contrast colours make it more difficult to read (at least for me)........

The "we are suckers" comment isn't really applicable. Up until ebay and net shopping, we didn't really have a choice in the matter. If everyone sells Bread at $1.69 a loaf, how can we buy it cheaper? Same for just about any other product. Even with the "low price guarantees" from many electronics outlets the bottom line price has always been about 25% higher than the US.

However, with ebay and net shopping, retailers in Canada are going to have to start waking up to lost sales. If they don't adjust their prices they may find themselves closing stores.

For eg: In the past 6 yrs, I have only ever bought 1 dewalt drill at retail here (12 volt, on sale for the same prices as ebay) but I have bought all my other dewalt tools (about 8 pieces total) on ebay at about half the cost of retail here.
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
15,972
2
0
63
way out in left field
bananaman said:
Don't you think that the fact we have 1/10 the population has an effect on prices? Wholesalers and distributors in Canada purchase much smaller volumes than the US wdistributors. That is a factor in pricing for sure.

The other factor is large land mass, with small population. When you ship smaller quantities of anything, it is more expensive per piece than shipping large quantities.

All industries I have been involved with in Canada have built in higher distribution costs, mostly due to the middleman. The wholesaler obviously needs to make money, and does provide a service. They bring in products that otherwise would never see the light of day in Canada because of the smaller population.

Overall, compared to the rest of the world, our prices our competitive. We happen to be next door to a huge economy, with massive buying power, and so our igher prices are more obvious.
In the article posted above, those doing the study took that into account and stated that the price difference equated to x million miles difference. I don't know about you but Canada isn't THAT big lol.

Yes, a smaller market does affect the bottom line price but as the article stipulates, many Canadian distributors and customers are buying the same products sold south of the border. Therefore if x manufacturer makes 10,000 units, the bottom line cost of those units will be the same no matter where you ship to. ie: Canadian distributors should be purchasing the items at the same price as their US counterparts. Even factoring the shipping, import taxes, etc the prices are way out of whack up here.

Just take vehicles for example. Many are priced 25 - 40% higher here than the US especially now with our dollar being so strong. That's significant!!!
 

Primetime21

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2001
688
1,167
93
internet
If something that is made in the US is sold up here there is no way that a business up here could sell it for the same price as in the US unless they wanted to lose money on it. If you have product A made in Florida and it has to be shipped all the way up here the extra transport costs will have to be factored in to the cost here. And then when you factor in that we aren't purchasing as high a quantity of product A then that will also increase the cost. The more you buy from a company the better the deal should be if you are a valued customer.
Also factor in that things here in Canada are priced differently between provinces as well. You think a 24 of beer is priced the same in BC as it is in Ontario think again. We can't even compete between prices in our own provinces how are we supposed to compete with the US. Between the quota boards here for food, to the higher taxes here. The only way some things are priced lower here are because the stores are losing money on those items to get us in the building.
 

jwmorrice

Gentleman by Profession
Jun 30, 2003
7,133
1
0
In the laboratory.
tboy said:
Good article Morrice but can I make a comment? Please use black for your type colour from now on. The low contrast colours make it more difficult to read (at least for me)........
Sorry tboy. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

jwm
 

Robio

New member
Dec 28, 2005
1,494
1
0
53
I found with any type of marketing it isn't the fact something cost less or it is a good deal .It is the illusion that it is a good deal and if people think it is a great deal they will flock to it even if its not.
If you do some shopping around in Toronto you can find great deals. When I was showing some clients from the USA around Toronto they freaked when they saw a Factory direct Flyer, A Canadian tire Job mate 4-1/2 "Grinder for $9.99 and Princes auto they found some deals far better then what they had available to them .They even made a comment that the prices were better then ebay and without the shipping
 

rama putri

Banned
Sep 6, 2004
2,993
1
36
shack said:
WE'RE A BUNCH OF SUCKERS!!!!!!!!!
Plus Canadian retailers are some of the worst in the world.

When the Canadian dollar was $0.65US, many Canadians were still buying stuff from the States as the quanity and range of goods was small. Retailers were complaining about the weak dollar, smaller market base, sales tax plus they never marketed their goods to Americans as a cheaper alternative. Now what are they going to do?

Oh actually, in good Canadian predictability, they're blaming the governament for the difference in import duties.
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
15,972
2
0
63
way out in left field
Robio said:
I found with any type of marketing it isn't the fact something cost less or it is a good deal .It is the illusion that it is a good deal and if people think it is a great deal they will flock to it even if its not.
If you do some shopping around in Toronto you can find great deals. When I was showing some clients from the USA around Toronto they freaked when they saw a Factory direct Flyer, A Canadian tire Job mate 4-1/2 "Grinder for $9.99 and Princes auto they found some deals far better then what they had available to them .They even made a comment that the prices were better then ebay and without the shipping
Robio: the only problem is you have to compare apples to apples. The jobmate and princess auto stuff is THE bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality. For comparison, look at house brands of stores like Val-U-Centre and maybe big lots.

If you look around the net there are a lot of off brand re-sellers that have the same crap at a lower price.

To compare anything by jobmate or Power Fist even to Black and Decker is just ludicrous.
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
15,972
2
0
63
way out in left field
Primetime21 said:
If something that is made in the US is sold up here there is no way that a business up here could sell it for the same price as in the US unless they wanted to lose money on it. If you have product A made in Florida and it has to be shipped all the way up here the extra transport costs will have to be factored in to the cost here. And then when you factor in that we aren't purchasing as high a quantity of product A then that will also increase the cost. The more you buy from a company the better the deal should be if you are a valued customer.
Also factor in that things here in Canada are priced differently between provinces as well. You think a 24 of beer is priced the same in BC as it is in Ontario think again. We can't even compete between prices in our own provinces how are we supposed to compete with the US. Between the quota boards here for food, to the higher taxes here. The only way some things are priced lower here are because the stores are losing money on those items to get us in the building.
The problem is with your argument is that there really isn't too much manufacturing in Florida. In fact, there is little heavy industry. You can tell by the amount of air pollution. Just wander around Orlando and the only air pollution is from POV's....

You hit on a very important subject though: beer aka booze. We have SO much sin tax on those items it's ridiculous....In the US you can buy a 24 of Old Milwaukee for $4.99 and a 12 of pepsi for $5.99. When it comes to booze and smokes, there is no comparison just because of the amount of tax.

If you want to really compare, look at a Sony Plasma TV. In the US they are about 30% cheaper than here and your shipping argument would hold true if you compared the price to a retailer in SoCal to Toronto. But when you can get the same pricing in Buffalo or just order it online, then the shipping cost argument is negated.

As for volume discounts. You could use that argument if you compared say, Canada Computer to Circuit city. But when you have best buy here, and best buy in the US, that argument too is negated. Because a sony plasma sold in the US, and the same model sold here, with the 30% price difference, they all come through the same warehouse in the US.
 

agentman

Member
Oct 12, 2005
241
5
18
On the news, Canadian consumers are catching on by purchasing items thru online US retail sites instead. Kind of funny they reported a lady wanting to pay for a book at a local Chapters Store in US funds cuz the price was less but the store would not accept the currency.
 

fmip75

New member
Jun 21, 2007
3
0
0
Amherst NY
one word....Thanks!

I work in retail in Buffalo....with the cross border shoppers....all I can say is Thanks! Keeping me busy, and employed lets me see your strippers and SP's. Long live par currency. Now if julie st.clair would just forgive me....
:rolleyes:
 

Papi Chulo

Banned Permanently
Jan 30, 2006
2,556
0
0
I wonder if it is still cheaper for most americans to purchase their prescription drugs in Canada
 
Last edited:

ig-88

New member
Oct 28, 2006
4,729
4
0
Papi Chulo said:
I wonder if it is still cheaper for most americans to purchase their prescription drugs in Canda
Depends on the drug.

If you have insurance, there's no point, since you're paying a $20 co-pay for a $500 bottle of drugs. Sweet deal, if your employer gives it.
 

Robio

New member
Dec 28, 2005
1,494
1
0
53
Apples to Apples

tboy said:
Robio: the only problem is you have to compare apples to apples. The jobmate and princess auto stuff is THE bottom of the barrel when it comes to quality. For comparison, look at house brands of stores like Val-U-Centre and maybe big lots.

If you look around the net there are a lot of off brand re-sellers that have the same crap at a lower price.

To compare anything by jobmate or Power Fist even to Black and Decker is just ludicrous.
They were comparing there low end shit to our low end shit plus the Factory direct had memory cards for less they what they would buy them for

Funny you said Black and Decker (are they high end? LOL) that grinder was on sale for $19.99 they claimed that was $32+ US.They said the Cheapest no name grinder they ever saw was over $20 . This was a while ago and when there dollar was still a bit higher and they were from relatively small towns.

P.S. They love our strip joints and Massage parlors but morally they would get any escorts if I was buying.
 
Toronto Escorts