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Creba suspect, 17, granted bail; WTF?

RogerRabbit

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Unbelievable!!!

The young offender act needs to be rethought?

Should anyone over 12, charged with a gun crime/ murder, be held in custody until trial?

re:

Creba suspect, 17, granted bail
Virtual house arrest for manslaughter accused

Judge's reasons can't be reported under ban

Jul. 1, 2006. 01:00 AM
TRACY HUFFMAN
CRIME REPORTER

A 17-year-old boy charged with manslaughter in the Boxing Day shooting that left 15-year-old Jane Creba dead was released on $100,000 bail yesterday.The boy, whose identity is protected by the Youth Criminal Justice Act, is the first of six people charged with manslaughter to be freed from jail."Well, the first thing he said was, `I'm really happy I'm going to be out and able to watch the England soccer game tomorrow morning,'" said the boy's lawyer Gordon Goldman outside court.Three other males — two adults and a youth — are charged with second-degree murder and remain behind bars.A publication ban prevents the media from reporting the evidence heard at the bail hearing or the reasons why Justice Kathleen Caldwell granted the boy bail.As Caldwell read detailed reasons, family members of the boy sat quietly together in the front row of the courtroom at Old City Hall.When it appeared the judge was going to grant bail, Goldman turned around and gave the boy's family a thumbs up.Once bail was decided, the boy's grandmother quietly said "thank you" to the judge.The boy was ordered to live with his grandmother under a virtual house arrest. The retired grandmother put her house up as collateral."He's very close to his grandmother and he's very anxious to get back home," Goldman said of his client.As a condition of his bail, the boy may only leave his house if he is accompanied by his grandmother, uncle or aunt, all of whom live in the home, or his mother who lives elsewhere in the city.The maximum sentence for a youth convicted of manslaughter is three years.Goldman said he understands some may view the decision as unjust and added it is unfortunate that a ban restricts the public from getting the whole picture. "If members of the public ... had heard the evidence at this bail hearing, most of the members of the public would not be shocked that he was released," he said.Two lawyers representing others accused in the case immediately requested a copy of the judge's ruling to assist in preparation for bail hearings in the coming weeks.On Dec. 26, gunfire erupted on Yonge St. near Dundas St. around 5:15 p.m. Creba was shopping with her sister when she was caught in the crossfire. Six others were wounded in the melee.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Without knowing the judge's reasoning, it's pointless to try and speculate on whether it's a reasonable decision.

FWIW Gordy Goldman is one of the notorious idiots of the local defence bar.
 

RogerRabbit

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oagre said:
Without knowing the judge's reasoning, it's pointless to try and speculate on whether it's a reasonable decision.

FWIW Gordy Goldman is one of the notorious idiots of the local defence bar.
I am not questioning the Judges ruling/ decision to date (yet, until I know all the facts/ evidence; bail was only a 100K?), as I sure it was based on some interpretaion of current 'law', as most Judges want to keep their jobs. My concern/ issue is with the current status of the 'Young Offenders Act':

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/8613-e.htm

http://www.lawyers.ca/sbiss/pages/yoa.htm

So again, my expanded questions to you & everyone else are:

Should the law/ Act be updated to reflect the 'current gun rage/ times' so that anyone over 12, charged with a gun/ violent crime/ murder/ etc., be held in custody until trial, with out chance of bail? What other changes/ updates are needed to 'Young Offenders Act' to reflect the current times?

I agree with you about Gordy Goldman, he said something to the effect, on CFTO yesterday that his client was looking forward to watching soccer, as he is a big fan...How sad...

I hope to obtain a deeper understanding of the law, the kind of power that it exercises, and its role in human societies.

At a practical level, I hope we the people/ cdn. civil society through our MP's/ media/ etc., can improve society by studying what the law is, what it ought to be, and how it actually operates; in simple terms good or bad, reasonable or unreasonable, et cetera. Some of us seek a deeper understanding behind law's seemingly unpredictable and uncertain nature....

:)
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Does it surprise you?

I am more surprised that they all didn't get bail.

Just wait till the trial. There will be more moaning and groaning and charges of systemic racism, and the cops are racist, and I didn't do it, and you have to understand that this young man who stands before you "came from a broken home" and he's so hard done by because he didn't have a nice car and watch, and society made him do it, etc.

Just wait till you hear the sentences. Betcha most of them get off with a few months, one or two might get 5 years, of which they will serve 18 months.

It's our pathetic justice system at its finest.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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RogerRabbit said:
Should the law/ Act be updated to reflect the 'current gun rage/ times' so that anyone over 12, charged with a gun/ violent crime/ murder/ etc., be held in custody until trial, with out chance of bail? What other changes/ updates are needed to 'Young Offenders Act' to reflect the current times?
IMHO, get caught walking the streets with a gun, manditory 5 year sentence with no parole.

Do a crime with a gun, or a knife for that matter, automatic 20 year sentence with no parole, whether you're the trigger man or not. If you're the trigger man, you get life with no parole. Life should mean life.

(Note, I am an easy touch cause I certainly don't believe in the death penalty.)
 

gramps

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james t kirk said:
IMHO, get caught walking the streets with a gun, manditory 5 year sentence with no parole.

Do a crime with a gun, or a knife for that matter, automatic 20 year sentence with no parole, whether you're the trigger man or not. If you're the trigger man, you get life with no parole. Life should mean life.

(Note, I am an easy touch cause I certainly don't believe in the death penalty.)
I think they should bring back the death penalty then these lowlife f**ks would end up where they belong.
 

Esco!

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james t kirk said:
IMHO, get caught walking the streets with a gun, manditory 5 year sentence with no parole.

Do a crime with a gun, or a knife for that matter, automatic 20 year sentence with no parole, whether you're the trigger man or not. If you're the trigger man, you get life with no parole. Life should mean life.

(Note, I am an easy touch cause I certainly don't believe in the death penalty.)
Yepper, I agree, you have no excuse to be walking around with a gun!!!!
Only disagreement I have with Kirkie is the knife part, other then that I wholeheartedly agree with him!!

So for the fecord, you gotta a gun, we build you a house of fun!! :)
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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RogerRabbit said:
Should the law/ Act be updated to reflect the 'current gun rage/ times' so that anyone over 12, charged with a gun/ violent crime/ murder/ etc., be held in custody until trial, with out chance of bail? What other changes/ updates are needed to 'Young Offenders Act' to reflect the current times?:)
This would be clearly unconstitutional as it would violate the presumption of innocence and amount to arbitrary detention.

Maybe in Iran or Alabama, RR.
 

RogerRabbit

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You forgot to mention North Korea?

oagre said:
This would be clearly unconstitutional as it would violate the presumption of innocence and amount to arbitrary detention.

Maybe in Iran or Alabama, RR.

Interesting argument...How innocent is someone carrying a gun and commiting crimes like murder? What about protecting the innocent & law abiding citizens?

So oagre what do you suggest/ support now, the status quo?

:eek:
 

tboy

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Aug 18, 2001
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Oh we can't go overboard and protect the INNOCENT, don't forget we have to protect the guilty!

As for reasons to carry a gun? I bet the FIRST one out of the defence's mouth will be "he was afraid for his life because of the area he was in..." and then they will get off...

Like that one that started the shoot out with the cops earlier this week. I read the article and saw: he was found guilty in 2002 and sentenced to 9 years in jail....wait a second, 2002 + 9 = 2011.

WHat the fuck was he doing out in 2006 shooting up neighbourhoods? Someone explain to me how THAT happens....wait, don't bother, I know I know, they let him out early.....
 
O

Oil Please

Im surprised he wanted bail. Those scumbags normally stay in Jail without bail so they can get more time served and cash in on their 2for 1!
 

juanbrujo

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RogerRabbit said:

"Well, the first thing he said was, `I'm really happy I'm going to be out and able to watch the England soccer game tomorrow morning,'" said the boy's lawyer Gordon Goldman outside court.
Just a sample of the kind of fans the England national football team has...:rolleyes:
 

thompo69

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Two things. The Young Offenders Act has been updated, and it no longer exists. The current statute is the Youth Criminal Justice Act. Honestly, I'm not familiar enough with it or its predecessor to know if its a significant improvement or simply housekeeping.

As for the kid being released on bail, he has not been convicted of anything at this point. Bail provisions exist to ensure that he shows up for trial. The judge obviously didn't think he was a flight risk. I'll wait to see if he's convicted and what kind of sentence he gets before I start worrying about the current state of the criminal justice system in relation to youth.
 

Cobster

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gramps said:
I think they should bring back the death penalty then these lowlife f**ks would end up where they belong.
!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

tboy

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Well, for one thing, he was released on bail and his gramma had to put up her house as collateral. His lawyer says he cares deeply for gramma so let's hope he cares enough not to skip out. Afterall, HE didn't have to put up anything....

So can anyone explain what this young offenders act or it's recent incarnation the youth criminal justice act is supposed to do? I mean, if we had all the facts then our opinions may differ.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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RogerRabbit said:
Interesting argument...How innocent is someone carrying a gun and commiting crimes like murder? What about protecting the innocent & law abiding citizens?

So oagre what do you suggest/ support now, the status quo?

:eek:
But he has the right to be tried and proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt under our and all other Western judicial systems. So you can't punish him ahead of time by just assuming he's guilty. What if they arrested the wrong person?

Interestingly the Ontario Court of Appeal (the highest and most authoritative court in the province) considered the "get tough on gun offences" issue in the context of refusing bail a few weeks ago and royally wrist-slapped a lower court judge who denied bail to a juve in order to implement the "get tough" policy.
 
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