Couple Busted for Refusing to Pay Tip

[ig-88]

i've watched enough People's Court to know that the store owner needs to have signage indicating the conditions, and that the signage must be clearly displayed

another thing to do, imo, if you really want to fight it, and have the time, is just to stay in the restaurant, and let them call the police

the police can come in and sort it out; if you haven't left the premises, imo, you haven't stolen anything, and the police can decide if a) you're being extorted, or b) you owe the money

 

[Malibook]

wow, I never thought there would be an actual law to give a tip !

A tip is just that, a fucking TIP. Its upto the descretion of the customer based on service. It should not be based/dependent on law imo.

Really hate a place which instills a tip on you AND expects more !

There is no law to give a tip.

If an establishment has a mandatory gratuity or service charge policy, and it is clearly indicated and should be known, then you are committing yourself to paying it when you order.

The customer does not have the right to unilaterally decide they will not pay, before or after the fact.

It is hard to imagine that the manager would not try to work something out instead of the cops being called which makes me believe there is likely more to this story.
There were 8 people in the party so they are basically bitching about $2 each which also does not make sense so perhaps their behaviour and attitudes were contributing factors here.

 

[Malibook]

Q. Is a mandatory service charge considered to be the same as a tip or gratuity?

A. No, a tip is a voluntary amount left by a patron for an employee. A mandatory service charge is an amount that a patron is required to pay based on a contractual agreement or a specified required service amount listed on the menu of an establishment.

To me this is splitting hairs and the name of the charge is irrelevant.
I have seen menus label the charge a gratuity but if it is actually a service charge by definition, so what?
Am I supposed to feel better that I can tell my cell mates that I stiffed the restaurant for a service charge, not a gratuity?

 

[Gyaos]

The owner admitted that the group waited unusually long for their food, but said the pub was extremely busy that night. He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened.

There's a lie. If the tip was 16%, then free food would be more than 16%, in which the percentage of the tip would then be lower as the food was free, hense not having to pay the tip.
Hope that manager get's his butt kicked in with a comment like that. He should have been cuffed. Philadelphia, that figures.

Gyaos Baltar.

 

[spankingman]

i've watched enough People's Court to know that the store owner needs to have signage indicating the conditions, and that the signage must be clearly displayed

another thing to do, imo, if you really want to fight it, and have the time, is just to stay in the restaurant, and let them call the police

the police can come in and sort it out; if you haven't left the premises, imo, you haven't stolen anything, and the police can decide if a) you're being extorted, or b) you owe the money

Yes fine but is it a STATE LAW!!!!!!! I hardly think our MPP's in TO would debate whether to pass a law making tipping a Provincial Statute!!!!!

 

[Berlin]

Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends.

... I do understand and feel for them and I think everyone must have had their fair share of shitty services . But I would've simply complained to the management and never bring my business there any more... the service charge is mandatory in their case so the scenario is kinda sticky.

Sucks when that happens.

 

[papasmerf]

... I do understand and feel for them and I think everyone must have had their fair share of shitty services . But I would've simply complained to the management and never bring my business there any more... the service charge is mandatory in their case so the scenario is kinda sticky.

Sucks when that happens.

In this case I suspect you will find that although the establishment claims the tip is mandatory there was no contract.

 

[Malibook]

In this case I suspect you will find that although the establishment claims the tip is mandatory there was no contract.

If it is the policy and this policy is not illegal and it is clearly displayed, there is a contract just like the taxes that get added.

If you know this is the policy, or if you should know, you agree to the contract by going there and ordering.

 

[Berlin]

In this case I suspect you will find that although the establishment claims the tip is mandatory there was no contract.

... papi, are you serious ?

 

[papasmerf]

If it is the policy and this policy is not illegal and it is clearly displayed, there is a contract just like the taxes that get added.

If you know this is the policy, or if you should know, you agree to the contract by going there and ordering.

A contract is a meeting of the minds and in this case there was an expectation of good service are the waiters part of the contract. By providing substandard service the establishment did not fulfill their end of the contract. Thus voiding the contract and releasing the customers from their end.

 

[Malibook]

A contract is a meeting of the minds and in this case there was an expectation of good service are the waiters part of the contract. By providing substandard service the establishment did not fulfill their end of the contract. Thus voiding the contract and releasing the customers from their end.

This is true if the manager agrees to make changes.
They did receive the service, and substandard is subjective.
It is not up to the customer to unilaterally change the terms of the contract which they agreed to be going there and ordering and eating.

 

[papasmerf]

This is true if the manager agrees to make changes.
It is not up to the customer to unilaterally change the terms of the contract which they agree to be going there and ordering.

I think we will see this one play out in the courts.

 

[Malibook]

I think we will see this one play out in the courts.

I highly doubt it will go to court.
Both sides should not have taken it this far.

 

[papasmerf]

I highly doubt it will go to court.
Both sides should not have taken it this far.

in this case the only option was for the customers to pay the tip or not.

It was up to management to have reconsidered.

 

[Malibook]

in this case the only option was for the customers to pay the tip or not.

It was up to management to have reconsidered.

Just because it is likely not worth going to court over does not make it right to refuse to pay a mandatory service fee which the customer knew about.

It is probably not worth the time and money to take someone to court who doesn't even pay the bill at all.
Doesn't mean this should be the customer's option.

The customer should have complained and gotten what they could and then pay and never return.

If they were good customers and not trouble makers, the manager should have offered them some compensation.
If they were rude obnoxious assholes, the manager should have just told them to leave and never come back.
The fact that the cops were called leads me to believe that there may be more to this story.

 

[Aardvark154]

It will come down to what Pennsylvania law says about service charges.

Yes although I doubt there is a specific statute on it. (The Pennsylvania Statutes are not particularly well organized but knock yourself out if you want to) as I already touched on above in #12, This hinges upon whether there was notice of a mandatory service charge and hence a contractual agreement when they accepted service at the Pub and what precedent there is on this point in Pennsylvania.

I remain currious as to why the Police arrested them rather than merely summonsing them (perhaps really good insurance?).

 

[papasmerf]

Just because it is likely not worth going to court over does not make it right to refuse to pay a mandatory service fee which the customer knew about.

It is probably not worth the time and money to take someone to court who doesn't even pay the bill at all.
Doesn't mean this should be the customer's option.

The customer should have complained and gotten what they could and then pay and never return.

If they were good customers and not trouble makers, the manager should have offered them some compensation.
If they were rude obnoxious assholes, the manager should have just told them to leave and never come back.
The fact that the cops were called leads me to believe that there may be more to this story.

They will be going to court, they were charged with a criminal offense.

 

[pencilneckgeek2]

Philadelphia, that figures.

Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, but don't let facts get in the way.

 

[Malibook]

Yes although I doubt there is a specific statute on it. (The Pennsylvania Statutes are not particularly well organized but knock yourself out if you want to) as I already touched on above in #12 was there notice of a mandatory service charge and hence a contractual agreement when they accepted service at the Pub. I'm currious however as to why the Police arrested them rather than merely summonsing them.

I would think this is a standard practice and I'm sure these people would have claimed that they didn't even know about the charge if it was at all conceivable and believable for them to do so, which they did not.

 

[Aardvark154]

The fact that the cops were called leads me to believe that there may be more to this story.

Well likely having a bearing is that it was a party of both undergraduate and graduate students.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/today/index.ssf/2009/11/no_tip_leads_to_a_police_cruis.html