Cop tells me to plead not guilty - WTF?

[K Douglas]

I think infractions stay with your ins. company for 5 yrs.
I think fighting is always a best approcach because of the insurance ramifications,,,,
A freind was recently charged with not wearing seatbelt, the cop told him to fight it, go to is mechanic & get a written report of how the seatbelt was faulty and needed replacement, court day the ticket was tossed .

They stay on for 3 years from the date of conviction. However if that date falls within a policy period, it stays on until the policy expires.

 

[K Douglas]

That cop has no idea what he is talking about.

Insurance companys go by the # of points associated with a ticket, which indicates the severity of it.

a minor 2 point ticket such as a seatbelt infraction will have a very small affect on your insurance, while a major 7 pointer like a hit and run, DUI, flight from police will cause your insurance to go through the roof, if not cancelled.


ALWAYS fight a traffic ticket that will affect your insurance rates, you have nothing to lose.

Provided you are polite & sincere, 98% of the time the ticket will be substantially reduced, or thrown out all together.

The cop is right and you are right too. They don't go by points but by type of infraction. Minor convictions (speeding 20KM), major convictions (careless driving) and criminal convictions (DUI).

 

[xarir]

Thanks all for the comments. Once again the TERB collective wisdom comes through!

I'll be calling on Monday / Tuesday to get the initial court date. If Sheik doesn't move this thread to the Deleted Threads Repository I'll update it as the case proceeds.

 

[xarir]

An update - I went to RedLine Legal Services and they took my case. They charged something like $250 flat fee (+GST). For this they will do the following:

- get a court date
- prior to actual appearing in court they will request a full disclosure from the cop
- If (when) cop does not give full disclosure (it's a lot of paperwork apparently) they file for a new court date
- 2nd request for full disclosure by the cop is made
- If (when) 2nd request not fulfilled, they ask the court to dismiss the charge because of no disclosure
- If disclosure is actually made, they argue based on one of 2 things: under the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, if charges are laid a court date must occur in a reasonable time. Since the traffic courts are so backlogged, cases are rarely heard within 1 year. So Redline makes a Charter appeal for dismissal and it's usually granted. If the Charter appeal is not granted, they fight the case for you in court.

I was told that in most cases, they get a dismissal. In the other cases they at least get the charge knocked down. I was quoted a success rate (dismissal) of 80% - 90%.

For now then I wait until the court date approaches and see what happens.

 

[Tower]

Any word on this Court Date?

 

[Mongrel4u]

Cops do this all the time if you are nice, personable and not trying to be an ass...Its happened to me a few times. The cop is trying to help you out..take it and dont complain as he could have just handed you the ticket and told you to have a coke and a smile.

As for the insurance issue... well hes right and hes wrong. Some insurance companies go by the 3 strikes and your out regardless of points...and others look more at your points lost.

My advice to you is to call your insurance company and get straight on their policies

 

[KBear]

For my ticket the cop did show up. Judge was in a pissy mood, and told a guy off for not standing up when he entered the room. With the cop there I told the prosecutor that I would plead guilty, and he agreed to take my case early. The judge questioned the cop about what happened, and if the ticket was reduced, which it was slightly. In the end they found me guilty of the offence as written on the ticket.

Turns out that if I had asked for a delay in the court date the cop would not have been able to show up as he was going to Afghanistan in a couple of weeks to train cops there.

Think the cop suggested I fight the ticket so he could get the overtime, or as a way to disarm people.

I asked some other cops in the courthouse about them showing up for court, and they told me they are compelled to show up, and mostly do.

 

[El_Mariachi]

I was a passenger, riding shotgun in a vehicle. The driver had only at G2. I ended up getting a ticket as a passenger for not wearing a seatbelt. Will that affect my insurance or will I get points?

 

[21pro]

do what he says. He is the LAW.

 

[xarir]

Any word on this Court Date?

No court date set. (Or at least, none that I know of.)

 

[Ref]

Just three questions. Xarir.

Are you a girl?

and

Are you a pretty girl?

and

Are you a really pretty girl?

I rest my case.

Xarir is cute, Really cute.

At the very first TERB party (held at the Rail) he took Willy Wants and me to the bathroom and performed a duo BJ on us.

 

[goodtime]

Good advices from the traffic cop. I've been sitting in court case for self & accompany friends. Even for tickets in US.

I asked some other cops in the courthouse about them showing up for court, and they told me they are compelled to show up, and mostly do.

It's part of their duty no longer optional. Too much loss court fines with case thrown out as traffic cop not there.

 

[xarir]

Another update to this thread - in late Sept / early October I had a court date set for Dec 2. The notice was mailed to me.

Today the RedLine Legal Services guy left me a vmail - charge has been withdrawn! They brought the case forward at a defence motion to have it changed because of lack of disclosure. The prosecutor just chose to withdraw the charge and the court date is cancelled. "The charge is totally gone and it will not appear on your record, and there is no fine to pay."

Well, I certainly can't complain about the result! So in this case, RedLine Legal Services came through for me. Well worth the $250 they charged me for their services.

 

[a 1 player]

Excellent, glad to hear it!

 

[RicePatty]

An update - I went to RedLine Legal Services and they took my case. They charged something like $250 flat fee (+GST). For this they will do the following:

- get a court date
- prior to actual appearing in court they will request a full disclosure from the cop
- If (when) cop does not give full disclosure (it's a lot of paperwork apparently) they file for a new court date
- 2nd request for full disclosure by the cop is made
- If (when) 2nd request not fulfilled, they ask the court to dismiss the charge because of no disclosure
- If disclosure is actually made, they argue based on one of 2 things: under the Charter of Rights & Freedoms, if charges are laid a court date must occur in a reasonable time. Since the traffic courts are so backlogged, cases are rarely heard within 1 year. So Redline makes a Charter appeal for dismissal and it's usually granted. If the Charter appeal is not granted, they fight the case for you in court.

I was told that in most cases, they get a dismissal. In the other cases they at least get the charge knocked down. I was quoted a success rate (dismissal) of 80% - 90%.

For now then I wait until the court date approaches and see what happens.

Thanks for laying out all the steps. It looks simple enough that you should be able to do it yourself and save some money.
Here's a useful thread on how to fight your traffic ticket (including steps on how to ask for full disclosure..)
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=704798

 

[Larry_Fyne]

So I was out driving to the video store to return a couple of DVDs. I'm on a one-way residential street. It's about 10 at night and traffic is very very light. There's a section of the street where there are 2 stop signs within about 20 metres. I always stop at the first but very often only slow down at the second one.

Tonight I slow down at the second one - I'm probably doing 20 - 25 km/h but I'm clearly not stopped. So a cop who happens to be there (I didn't notice him) stops me and gives me a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign. He was quite nice about it and said it's just a small mistake - no biggie at all.

Then, as he's giving me the ticket he says that he notices I have an infraction from 2005. I tell him it's true, I got a speeding ticket then. He replies that again, it's no big deal, it's just a small mistake that's all. He's being all disarming and even in a way charming if that's actually possible.

So then he tells me I should plead not guilty to the ticket he's just given me. He tells me the insurance guys don't look at points anymore but they do look at total number of infractions. He tells me it's like baseball - 1 strike, 2 strikes ... But he notes that strikes are wiped out after 3 years. "So a quick little math" he tells me, in 2008 my speeding ticket vanishes. He advises that if I show up to court in 15 days to ask for a trial, I'll get a date 1 year from now and that furthermore the judge will likely knock the fine down from $110 to $50 or $60. I'll go on having only 1 infraction on the record and the insurance boys won't notice.

So what do you guys think I should do?

Stupid question, how can you slow down to 20-25 km /h for a stop sign that is 20 metres away from the previous stop sign? I would think that you would have had to smoke your tires and appear to be very reckless if that was case. Pay the fine and suck it up!

 

[Questor]

I think the cop's point was that you already had a least 3 demerits for speeding from 2005. If you plead guilty to not stopping at the stop sign, that will be another 3 demerits or 6 demerits in total on your record until some point in 2008.

If you plead "not guilty", the 3 new demerits won't appear on the MOT abstract until after your trial. Even thought the insurance company keeps records for 5 years about tickets *they know about*, the MOT driver's abstracts only go back 3 years.

This way, if the insurance company does a random check, only one conviction will appear in your abstract at a time to possibly affect your rate (assuming that they didn't find out about the first ticket already). If you plead guilty, there will be a period of time where 2 convictions will appear.

The object of the exercise isn't to be found "not guilty". The object is to delay being found guilty until after the first ticket disappears from your record.

This trick used to work a few years ago to keep points off your record for insurance purposes:

1) Plead not guilty. The first trial date will be set about 6-8 weeks from now. A few days before the trial date, ask that it be postponed due to an "illness" in the family or whatever. Two things could happen:

a)Because you asked to be postponed, there's no obligation to give you a speedy trial and they'll set a new date a up to a year later.
b) They will decline to postpone the trial. Have a friend go in your place, but remain "quiet" to see if the cop shows. If the cop doesn't show, the friend comes forward and presents your case since you aren't present because of the illness that you previously informed the court of. If the cop does show, your friend stays "quiet" and you get convicted in absentia.

2) Assuming you got convicted in absentia, go before a JP and explain what happened. Tell him that you had informed the court in advance to try to delay the trial, but couldn't. You truly believe you were innocent etc, etc. If it sounds reasonable, the JP will schedule a court hearing to see if you should get a retrial. The hearing for a retrial will be scheduled about a year later. The conviction won't appear on your abstract because it is under appeal.

3) At the hearing before a judge, explain about the illness; how you tried to inform the court in advance to get the trial moved but couldn't; how you couldn't get someone to represent you, etc, etc. Remember, this is a hearing to see if you should get a retrial, not the retrial itself. If you sound reasonable, the judge will grant you a retrial and set a date about a year more into the future.

4) At the retrial, it's been more than 2 years since you got the ticket so there's a pretty good chance the cop won't show (moved, quit, etc). If he does show, do your best but in all likelihood you will be convicted and pay the fine plus some nominal court cost.

5)If you timed this properly, 3 years has already elapsed, so the conviction won't appear on your abstract anyway and there's no insurance rate increase. You've won the war, even though you lost the battle. That's why you really don't need Points or XCoppers.

So you are out a few days pay, the fine and court costs vs. the insurance rate increase. You have to decide if it's worth it all.

This is all very interesting, not to mention strategically brilliant. Personally, I'd rather not enter that Byzantine legal maze and endure it for 3 years. For me, there is a psychological cost to all this. Stress related. I don't want to deal with that. Imagine if you get another ticket. Now you are juggling your way through this process twice at the same time. Court dates, lying to justices, etc. And someone pointed out that after all that time, chances are the cop has quit or moved away. Well what about your life? If you move away, you've got to come back for some stupid court date to fight a $100 ticket. Not to mention scheduling vacation time around the court dates. No thanks. I think I'll pay the fine, take the points, and change my driving behavior so that I don't get another one in the next 3 years. But hey, to each his own.

 

[Questor]

Another update to this thread - in late Sept / early October I had a court date set for Dec 2. The notice was mailed to me.

Today the RedLine Legal Services guy left me a vmail - charge has been withdrawn! They brought the case forward at a defence motion to have it changed because of lack of disclosure. The prosecutor just chose to withdraw the charge and the court date is cancelled. "The charge is totally gone and it will not appear on your record, and there is no fine to pay."

Well, I certainly can't complain about the result! So in this case, RedLine Legal Services came through for me. Well worth the $250 they charged me for their services.

I posted above before reading to learn the final outcome. It seems RedLine did a good job for you. And it was only delayed 1 year from date of infraction. No court appearances, no lying to justices. Okay, I'll buy that. It worked out with minimum hassle. Seems like something to keep in mind for the future.

 

[landscaper]

police are required to show for court dates it is part of their salary package, overtime does come into it due to court date changes etc.

It is possible that the cop was on work to rule or was just being leinient. The question of his ticket quota also comes up. If it was near the 15th or end of the month he needs to make sure he has about the same number of tickets as everybody else or his supervisor will have a look at what he is doing.

 

[syn]

If you get a ticket from a traffic cop (TSU) it is likely he/she will show as the dates are selected with their schedule in mind.

Syn