Cop tells me to plead not guilty - WTF?

[xarir]

So I was out driving to the video store to return a couple of DVDs. I'm on a one-way residential street. It's about 10 at night and traffic is very very light. There's a section of the street where there are 2 stop signs within about 20 metres. I always stop at the first but very often only slow down at the second one.

Tonight I slow down at the second one - I'm probably doing 20 - 25 km/h but I'm clearly not stopped. So a cop who happens to be there (I didn't notice him) stops me and gives me a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign. He was quite nice about it and said it's just a small mistake - no biggie at all.

Then, as he's giving me the ticket he says that he notices I have an infraction from 2005. I tell him it's true, I got a speeding ticket then. He replies that again, it's no big deal, it's just a small mistake that's all. He's being all disarming and even in a way charming if that's actually possible.

So then he tells me I should plead not guilty to the ticket he's just given me. He tells me the insurance guys don't look at points anymore but they do look at total number of infractions. He tells me it's like baseball - 1 strike, 2 strikes ... But he notes that strikes are wiped out after 3 years. "So a quick little math" he tells me, in 2008 my speeding ticket vanishes. He advises that if I show up to court in 15 days to ask for a trial, I'll get a date 1 year from now and that furthermore the judge will likely knock the fine down from $110 to $50 or $60. I'll go on having only 1 infraction on the record and the insurance boys won't notice.

So what do you guys think I should do?

 

[Gentle Ben]

I think infractions stay with your ins. company for 5 yrs.
I think fighting is always a best approcach because of the insurance ramifications,,,,
A freind was recently charged with not wearing seatbelt, the cop told him to fight it, go to is mechanic & get a written report of how the seatbelt was faulty and needed replacement, court day the ticket was tossed .

 

[Hybridel]

He tells me the insurance guys don't look at points anymore

That cop has no idea what he is talking about.

Insurance companys go by the # of points associated with a ticket, which indicates the severity of it.

a minor 2 point ticket such as a seatbelt infraction will have a very small affect on your insurance, while a major 7 pointer like a hit and run, DUI, flight from police will cause your insurance to go through the roof, if not cancelled.


ALWAYS fight a traffic ticket that will affect your insurance rates, you have nothing to lose.

Provided you are polite & sincere, 98% of the time the ticket will be substantially reduced, or thrown out all together.

 

[tboy]

Funny you bring this up because yes, it is all about timing.

For eg: when I was younger (as many are) I tended to speed a lot and got nailed for it. So I had some tickets on my licence and then got one while I was up north for 2 weeks vacation. Well on my last day, I paid the ticket because I didn't want to be bothered going back up to fight it.

Well, when I paid the ticket it put me over the limit for points so I lost my licence.....The kicker was that I paid it on a friday, on the following TUESDAY I had points coming OFF my licence for the first ticket I received....FUCK was I pissed....I didn't even wait for the 2 or 3 week delay they give you after you get the ticket...>DOH

 

[gordie 269]

I think he was trying to pick you up.

He just wants you to plead not guilty so he can see you again in court. .... or for the court money they get.

 

[Berlin]

Cop tells me to plead not guilty - WTF?

Exactly, WTF ?

xarir did ya slap his ass while he's writing your ticket ?


Seriously, I'd contest it.

 

[Terminator2000]

Just three questions. Xarir.

Are you a girl?

and

Are you a pretty girl?

and

Are you a really pretty girl?

I rest my case.

 

[TRX]

I think he was trying to pick you up.

He just wants you to plead not guilty so he can see you again in court. .... or for the court money they get.

some good cops if he advised you to plead not guilty, he will not show up in court, he just want to give you a lesson for your mistake.

 

[FailsW0rth]

i was told that cops get paid overtime if they have to go to court.

 

[xarir]

Fair enuff. Looks like I'm off to court. It's really just a pain in the ass. If there were no insurance ramifications I'd just pay the damn thing and be done with it.

Anyway, since I'm court-bound does anyone have recent experience with XCoppers or similar?

 

[KBear]

I was also given a ticket for speeding and the cop suggested I take it to court. He also told me that if he did not show up to court, it is not because he does not care, just that he has more important things to do.

I challenged a parking ticket type offence, and it was dropped, never went to court.

 

[2wheeljunkie]

Never go to Xcoppers or POINTTS those bastards don't get you off they plea bargain down and you still pay them and the reduced fine. I would suggest going to Redline Legal Services.

http://www.charged.ca

They have a flat menu service and they pretty much give 1000 percent to get you off.

2WJ

 

[gww]

Had the same thing a year plus ago except he said he would be on "vaction" on the court date. And sure enough he must have been .. .didn't find him at the court house.

 

[l69norm]

Fair enuff. Looks like I'm off to court. It's really just a pain in the ass. If there were no insurance ramifications I'd just pay the damn thing and be done with it. Anyway, since I'm court-bound does anyone have recent experience with XCoppers or similar?

I think the cop's point was that you already had a least 3 demerits for speeding from 2005. If you plead guilty to not stopping at the stop sign, that will be another 3 demerits or 6 demerits in total on your record until some point in 2008.

If you plead "not guilty", the 3 new demerits won't appear on the MOT abstract until after your trial. Even thought the insurance company keeps records for 5 years about tickets *they know about*, the MOT driver's abstracts only go back 3 years.

This way, if the insurance company does a random check, only one conviction will appear in your abstract at a time to possibly affect your rate (assuming that they didn't find out about the first ticket already). If you plead guilty, there will be a period of time where 2 convictions will appear.

The object of the exercise isn't to be found "not guilty". The object is to delay being found guilty until after the first ticket disappears from your record.

This trick used to work a few years ago to keep points off your record for insurance purposes:

1) Plead not guilty. The first trial date will be set about 6-8 weeks from now. A few days before the trial date, ask that it be postponed due to an "illness" in the family or whatever. Two things could happen:

a)Because you asked to be postponed, there's no obligation to give you a speedy trial and they'll set a new date a up to a year later.
b) They will decline to postpone the trial. Have a friend go in your place, but remain "quiet" to see if the cop shows. If the cop doesn't show, the friend comes forward and presents your case since you aren't present because of the illness that you previously informed the court of. If the cop does show, your friend stays "quiet" and you get convicted in absentia.

2) Assuming you got convicted in absentia, go before a JP and explain what happened. Tell him that you had informed the court in advance to try to delay the trial, but couldn't. You truly believe you were innocent etc, etc. If it sounds reasonable, the JP will schedule a court hearing to see if you should get a retrial. The hearing for a retrial will be scheduled about a year later. The conviction won't appear on your abstract because it is under appeal.

3) At the hearing before a judge, explain about the illness; how you tried to inform the court in advance to get the trial moved but couldn't; how you couldn't get someone to represent you, etc, etc. Remember, this is a hearing to see if you should get a retrial, not the retrial itself. If you sound reasonable, the judge will grant you a retrial and set a date about a year more into the future.

4) At the retrial, it's been more than 2 years since you got the ticket so there's a pretty good chance the cop won't show (moved, quit, etc). If he does show, do your best but in all likelihood you will be convicted and pay the fine plus some nominal court cost.

5)If you timed this properly, 3 years has already elapsed, so the conviction won't appear on your abstract anyway and there's no insurance rate increase. You've won the war, even though you lost the battle. That's why you really don't need Points or XCoppers.

So you are out a few days pay, the fine and court costs vs. the insurance rate increase. You have to decide if it's worth it all.

 

[Hard Idle]

Maybe he just wants to get paid for the court time.

Or maybe he's telling you in not so many words that the charge will be dropped if you contest it?

Could be he just wanted to give you something to think about every time you approach a Stop sign - having to plead the ticket and maybe show up in court might serve as a better reminder than just a verbal warning.

Even if the offence is very harmless, cops can't let people think they can ignore traffic signs right under the nose of a squad car just because it's late at night - but they might not always go for the conviction if you have a good attitude and seem to have gotten the message.

 

[l69norm]

The other possibility is Peel Regional Police are on "work to rule", so they are refusing to do overtime:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2007/09/26/peel-police.html

But the story goes that they are issuing warnings instead of tickets.

 

[Worf]

I was browsing and came across this post. The EXACT same thing happened to me 2 days ago. I was on a residential street and heading home. I went through a stop sign (I usually only slow, but didn't stop fully). I don't know where the cop came from but he had his lights flashing (no siren) and I pulled up in front of my house.

I also have a speeding ticket from last year, and have 3 points already. I got stopped at that time for speeding on Bayview, in a 50km zone. It was a stupid ticket. They just needed to make some extra revenue for the province at that time, and I was one of a few suckers around to donate.

BUT, this time the cop he said he wouldn't give me a ticket, and he let me off with a warning. Maybe it was because I was in from of my house and my son in the house would see his father becoming a criminal and getting a ticket in front of his face.

The funny thing is, when I went inside and told him I didn't get a ticket, he was kind of disappointed. Oh well....

 

[goodandkind]

the cops are told not to lower tickets now because they do it in court, and yes they are paid overtime for going. On the ticket at the bottom it says code if the cop put an r in there it means they have already reduced it and will go no lower in court. The reason they rarely reduce it is because of al the idiots who still pleadnot guilty after a cop knocks down a ticket from 40over t0 15 over not realising at court the original speed can be reinstated

 

[trisket]

Some people have a deep need to be liked, to always prove they are regular folk behind the uniform of authority.
This is even when they're writing up a ticket, they want you to believe they are really nice guys. I wouldn't read anything into it.

If you have time on your hands, go ahead and contest it. It's healthy for the system to be forced to prove it's fair.

 

[ragingbull666]

The cop is absolutely right. Insurance companies do look at demerit points but you're also penalized for the number of infractions you have even if no points are given on that ticket (10k over the speed limit eg).I think you can have 1-2 tickets without being penalized with a premium increase. If you can hold off on the conviction on that ticket until you're previous one comes off then it benefits you from an insurance point of view. And yes I'm speaking from experience.