Constable James Forcillo Arrested for Breaching Bail Terms

cunning linguist

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Oct 13, 2009
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How about cutting power to the street car, locking the doors and waiting for the kid to throw the knife away and put his other hand on his dick, pull out his phone, start dancing and singing and / or any of the other nutty ass things he was likely to do after 5 minutes on non interaction?
Could have been a viable option, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm not even necessarily defending Forcillo's actions, I do however note that he was acquitted of the first volley of shots.

What I am arguing against are the armchair quarterbacks who clearly know nothing about LE tactics, who think that they could have shot the knife out of his hand, or shot him in the leg, or even used OC spray. Those aren't taught as appropriate courses of action, not should they be. OC spray is considered an "intermediate weapon", notice how intermediate weapons become options as soon as "active resistant" behaviour. OC isn't what cops use when the subject has a knife; that's when guns are drawn (note that I've never said anything for or against the actual shooting itself).
 

HEYHEY

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Nov 25, 2005
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From this article:

https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/cr...le-talking-with-driver-witness-testifies.html



Some of what eyewitnesses testified they saw and heard the night Sammy Yatim was shot dead on an empty Dundas streetcar by Const. James Forcillo does not match up with the multiple videos and audio recordings of the shooting, the jury heard Wednesday.

...

On Wednesday the jury heard from two witnesses who had been on the streetcar with Yatim on the night of July 26, 2013.

One was Duff Campbell, who was sitting near the front and was one of the last passengers to get off the streetcar as Yatim walked towards the front of the streetcar with a four-inch switchblade in his outstretched hand.

Campbell said he heard Yatim say, under his breath, “You think you can kill me.”

He was acting tough — like Clint Eastwood in a movie, Campbell testified. “He looked like he was not having a very good night.”

At one point, Yatim “flicked” the knife towards him, Campbell said. He testified that he did not see Yatim strike or lunge towards any of the passengers as they fled.

Campbell remained close to the streetcar after he exited and observed that Yatim became more relaxed as he spoke with the streetcar driver.

When the police arrived on the scene, he heard Forcillo command Yatim to drop the knife.

Brauti pointed out that Campbell described Forcillo as “pretty calm and focused” in his interview with the SIU. Campbell responded that Forcillo seemed “agitated and aggressive” rather than calm, but that he appeared less “frantic” than another officer at the scene.

Campbell testified that before the shots were fired, he heard Forcillo say: “Take one step towards me and I’ll f---in’ pop you.”

According to an audio recording played to the jury, Forcillo says: “You take one step in this direction and (unclear) shoot you. I’m telling you right now.”
Witnesses are so unreliable its ridiculous.
6 people observing the exact same situation will tell 6 vastly different stories, its quite amazing when you look into it. And i do recommend you look into it, its quite fascinating.
Also don't take any of the shit i say at face vale, look into to. I'm not gonna change your mind on any of this, but if you're willing to learn about how police are trained and why, what takes place during the situations that they're faced with you will have a whole new outlook on incidents like this. 99% of people however don't care to learn anything new in life, they just want to be right, even if they don;t have a clue about what they're talking about.
 

HEYHEY

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^^^ You and I are watching a different video because what I see is 2'nd degree murder.

That kid was no threat and he wasn't going anywhere. Even if he did jump off the street car (which he didn't), nothing a bat would not have solved, or pepper spray.

Instead you had Rambo shooting him, then pausing and shooting him some more just for fun.

I'm so glad that Forcillo is no longer a cop. No force should have hot heads like him walking the beat.
Do you really believe that Forcillo shot him for fun?



Have you ever been in a situation where you truly believed that another person was going to kill you? Did that person have a knife? Did they have a gun?

If yes described it, how you felt, how you thought, how you reacted during and after the event.

If not how can you sit behind your computer in your living room, watch a video and be an expert on what should have and shouldn't have been done by a person under those conditions?
 

frankcastle

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For him to get convicted there was probably some strong evidence.

If he wins an appeal it will be over a technicality.

I find it unlikely that there was strong evidence that it was manslaughter or justified.

So we can argue back and forth but in the end unless new evidence is revealed the guy is screwed.
 

HEYHEY

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For him to get convicted there was probably some strong evidence.

If he wins an appeal it will be over a technicality.

I find it unlikely that there was strong evidence that it was manslaughter or justified.

So we can argue back and forth but in the end unless new evidence is revealed the guy is screwed.
11 jurors sealed his fate. Now scroll through this thread and see which way the crowd swings. Now go scroll through the comments on the star, sun, cbc etc. Notice a pattern? People with very strong opinions but very few facts and life experience that relates to the topic at hand. In our justice system we are at the mercy of the average person, and in case it's not obvious the average person is pretty fucken dumb.
 

frankcastle

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11 jurors sealed his fate. Now scroll through this thread and see which way the crowd swings. Now go scroll through the comments on the star, sun, cbc etc. Notice a pattern? People with very strong opinions but very few facts and life experience that relates to the topic at hand. In our justice system we are at the mercy of the average person, and in case it's not obvious the average person is pretty fucken dumb.
Those jurors had access to ALL information and arrived at that conclusion. Either that or the defense was shit. I mean if it is sooo obvious then why didn't he get off or get a lesser charge,

The fact is that you too are one of the average people without all the information and a strong opinion.

Sorry but when you blame it on the jury it means you are grasping at straws.

The problem is people are making off the cuff suggestions on how it could have been done differently. You then take the time to dissect why you think it wouldn't work. Does that mean you are correct? Does that mean he had no other option than to shoot? Like the rest of us you weren't there.... but the jurors through evidence were as close as possible.

Even if the jurors were wrong it is tough to get a retrial.

Appeals are for introducing new evidence or complain about mistakes.

So unless there's new evidence or glaring mistakes.... the ruling will stand. Admittedly. I am not privy to this knowledge so who knows maybe there is hope that we don't know about.
 

james t kirk

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Do you really believe that Forcillo shot him for fun?



Have you ever been in a situation where you truly believed that another person was going to kill you? Did that person have a knife? Did they have a gun?

If yes described it, how you felt, how you thought, how you reacted during and after the event.

If not how can you sit behind your computer in your living room, watch a video and be an expert on what should have and shouldn't have been done by a person under those conditions?
I don't believe I ever said that Forcillo shot the kid for fun. I have said that Forcillo was a bad cop and a hot head who saw confrontation in many of his interactions with the public as evidenced by the inordinate number of times in which he (Forcillo) pulled his gun during his time as a police officer. Most cops never pull their guns in their entire career. Forcillo pulled his 12 times in 3 years that we know about. (I will bet there were many others.) He was not cut out for the job and he ended up being a bad cop. He was on a power trip. You could see it by the way he behaved the second he arrived on the scene yelling and screaming at the kid, taking "command" of the scene when he was not the ranking officer. Within 1 minute of Forcillo's arrival, the kid was dead. Shot 9 times. There was absolutely 0 attempt made by Forcillo to descalate the situation. He WANTED that kid to make a move. "Go ahead, make my day". I'm glad he's gone, the Toronto Police Service is a better place without him. Other than the union bosses at TPS, you don't see any rank and file cops shedding tears over Forcillo do you? Guys like Forcillo (and there are lots of them out there) should never be hired as cops. They simply don't have what it takes.

And yes, I have had a gun pulled on me and pointed right at my head in fact. I was born and raised in the north end of Hamilton. I will let you google what that means. I kept my cool during said event.
 

dirkd101

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Sep 29, 2005
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eastern frontier
Do you really believe that Forcillo shot him for fun?



Have you ever been in a situation where you truly believed that another person was going to kill you? Did that person have a knife? Did they have a gun?

If yes described it, how you felt, how you thought, how you reacted during and after the event.

If not how can you sit behind your computer in your living room, watch a video and be an expert on what should have and shouldn't have been done by a person under those conditions?

Forcillo's actions were psychopathic to say the least. Someone who is sworn to protect life, showed little regard for the life he took. For someone who is supposedly trained in the use of force and when and how to use it, how much force is needed, he certainly threw the book out. He escalated a situation and then used the victim as his excuse here, for his own stupidity in how he handled the situation.

Remember, Forcillo is a trained police officer. A professional, with professional standards to uphold.

Synopsis of what should have been the perfect scenario;

Suspect is contained inside a street car.

It's advisable to enter to make sure all civilians are out and to assess the situation further. Weapons drawn is advisable in this situation.

Once this has been done, back off and keep the suspect contained. Have the street car driver disconnect power to the car and wait for the ETF, as they have better training in dealing with these types of situations.

Forcillo failed on all accounts.

He escalated the situation beyond what should have happened.

He emptied his gun into the suspect (15 rounds), which is beyond excessive. That would mean that he shot the victim as he lay dead or dying on the floor of the street car.

Police are taught how and when to use a gun. Taught to target body mass (torso). They aren't taught to empty their gun, but rather to use the rounds necessary to put their intended target down. Not to keep shooting when that target is down.

From everything I know about Forcillo, he wasn't and isn't worthy of wearing the uniform.

Sammy Yatim had issues, but Forcillo's issues are far worse and the outcome should have been far different and we shouldn't be talking about this now.

To add further. Your assertion that others sit behind the safety of their computers analyzing this and have no right. You clearly don't know me or many of the other people here, just like we don't know you. What you saying shows you have never been faced with a life and death situations or you also have the same disregard for life as Forcillo does. You lack the necessary decision making ability required in high stress level and dangerous situations, the go, no go decision making algorithm. This was a text book situation that was grossly mishandled. If you wear a badge and carry a gun, I shudder to know that and that there are more cowboys on the streets is not a good thing to know. Guys like Forcillo make me sick and show that there needs to be a better psyche test to weed these types out. He is a stain on a worthy group, those in blue, who protect the citizens around the clock.
 

Perry Mason

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Aug 20, 2001
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Here
^ ^ ^ ^ ^

This. I agree with you. Simply, there were many other and much better non-lethal options.

All cops are taught that lethal force is the option of last resort.

Forcillo killed a screwed up young man... as if the fact that he was screwed up was enough to justify taking his life.

The contrast between what Forcillo did and what a trained cop is expected to do is, simply, immense. To anyone who has been around the criminal courts and has seen and tried many cases, the point is obvious.

We don't know what evidence was presented and what evidence was not, but I saw and heard enough to believe that, had he been tried by a judge alone, he would probably have been convicted for firing the first 3 shots.

I suspect the Court of Appeal may set aside the guilty verdict because it really makes little sense, and it is almost impossible to overturn an acquittal by a jury. The judges may even direct a new trial!

Forcillo may yet walk and that would be a great travesty of justice. Imagine, he could be reinstated as a cop and be walking the streets in uniform and armed... if you have children, pray that they never encounter him in any situation.

Perry
 

HEYHEY

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Nov 25, 2005
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I don't believe I ever said that Forcillo shot the kid for fun. I have said that Forcillo was a bad cop and a hot head who saw confrontation in many of his interactions with the public as evidenced by the inordinate number of times in which he (Forcillo) pulled his gun during his time as a police officer. Most cops never pull their guns in their entire career. Forcillo pulled his 12 times in 3 years that we know about. (I will bet there were many others.) He was not cut out for the job and he ended up being a bad cop. He was on a power trip. You could see it by the way he behaved the second he arrived on the scene yelling and screaming at the kid, taking "command" of the scene when he was not the ranking officer. Within 1 minute of Forcillo's arrival, the kid was dead. Shot 9 times. There was absolutely 0 attempt made by Forcillo to descalate the situation. He WANTED that kid to make a move. "Go ahead, make my day". I'm glad he's gone, the Toronto Police Service is a better place without him. Other than the union bosses at TPS, you don't see any rank and file cops shedding tears over Forcillo do you? Guys like Forcillo (and there are lots of them out there) should never be hired as cops. They simply don't have what it takes.

And yes, I have had a gun pulled on me and pointed right at my head in fact. I was born and raised in the north end of Hamilton. I will let you google what that means. I kept my cool during said event.

^^^ You and I are watching a different video because what I see is 2'nd degree murder.

That kid was no threat and he wasn't going anywhere. Even if he did jump off the street car (which he didn't), nothing a bat would not have solved, or pepper spray.

Instead you had Rambo shooting him, then pausing and shooting him some more just for fun.

I'm so glad that Forcillo is no longer a cop. No force should have hot heads like him walking the beat.
From the first quote: "I don't believe I ever said that Forcillo shot the kid for fun"

From the second one, "Instead you had Rambo shooting him, then pausing and shooting him some more just for fun"
 

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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11 jurors sealed his fate. Now scroll through this thread and see which way the crowd swings. Now go scroll through the comments on the star, sun, cbc etc. Notice a pattern? People with very strong opinions but very few facts and life experience that relates to the topic at hand. In our justice system we are at the mercy of the average person, and in case it's not obvious the average person is pretty fucken dumb.
Since the shooting, I've asked no less than seven Police officer friends to comment on Forcillo's actions. These friends range in age from their 20s to 60+. A couple of them have first hand knowledge of Forcillo and stated how nobody wanted to be paired with him. I asked one friend about him shortly after the shooting. He said "Forcillo? He's fucking nuts."

Others went on to say, essentially "If we shot every person we took down with a lethal weapon, these types of shootings would be commonplace, but they's not."

Notice a pattern?
 

james t kirk

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From the first quote: "I don't believe I ever said that Forcillo shot the kid for fun"

From the second one, "Instead you had Rambo shooting him, then pausing and shooting him some more just for fun"


I was being sarcastic.

Furthermore, when I said, " just for fun" I was referring strictly to the second volley which came after a protracted pause. The second volley made absolutely no sense whatsoever and it is that second volley that truly horrifys any human being with a sense of right and wrong.

There is no explanation for the second volley of repeated shots. The kid was dead after the first volley. The fact that Forcillo fired another 6 shots into a corpse indicates a form of rage that defies definition. So yeah, he did it for fun.
 

Robert Mugabe

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Nov 5, 2017
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I was being sarcastic.

Furthermore, when I said, " just for fun" I was referring strictly to the second volley which came after a protracted pause. The second volley made absolutely no sense whatsoever and it is that second volley that truly horrifys any human being with a sense of right and wrong.

There is no explanation for the second volley of repeated shots. The kid was dead after the first volley. The fact that Forcillo fired another 6 shots into a corpse indicates a form of rage that defies definition. So yeah, he did it for fun.
I guess old habits are hard to break.

 

black booty lover

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Bottom line is this, anyone that thinks this was handled properly by captain 9mm, is either stupid or doesn't now how to size up a situation. There's no fucking way this should have ended how it did. If you think otherwise, you must be related to captain stupid (AKA Forcillo) or your just as dense.
 

frankcastle

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Feb 4, 2003
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Add to that the pay is shit and the stress levels are through the roof, and you couldnt pay me enough money to do that job
I have two friends who are cops and two acquaintances who are cops. With OT it is easy to clear 100K. The amount of action they have seen is pretty small. BUT they still see horrible and disturbing things.

There's also excellent benefits.

But whether it is worth it or not I think depends on the person. Hopefully enough people who genuinely want ot make a difference are hired over the bad apples.
 

frankcastle

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Again, that's not why they carry pepper spray.

If you want to employ a less-lethal measure, a taser, with lethal over watch (as in, someone beside you with a pistol drawn), is the appropriate response. Anytime a weapon is involved, there is the potential for thinfo to go south very quickly and having a lethal option available and ready, should it be necessary, is good practice.
With that many cops outside of the streetcar it should have been two guys with tasers backed up by the rest with guns. Instead of leading with guns.
 

kugel2

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"He emptied his gun into the suspect (15 rounds), which is beyond excessive. That would mean that he shot the victim as he lay dead or dying on the floor of the street car. ".

I don't agree with his actions, and I support the court's decision to convict. That said, I think it is responsible to stick to the truth and facts. he didn't empty his pistol, he didn't fire 15 rounds. All I'm saying is, let the facts speak for themselves. No need to to throw in false info.
 

kugel2

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With that many cops outside of the streetcar it should have been two guys with tasers backed up by the rest with guns. Instead of leading with guns.
Unfortunately at that time, only supervisors (sergeants) and ETF were allowed to carry tasers. None were on the scene when it went down. It took something like this to get TPS and many forces to re-examine their taser policies.
 

black booty lover

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Oct 21, 2007
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With that many cops outside of the streetcar it should have been two guys with tasers backed up by the rest with guns. Instead of leading with guns.

The biggest factor is they could have waited way longer. If you look at the video again, you'll see that the kid was just pacing back and fourth toward the door. He wasn't even getting off the street car when Forcillo shot him. The kid had done that a few times already. Anyway, the "for" or "against" Forcillo is a moot point. The courts agreed and jury agreed that he handled it like a dick head. This thread is about him now in Jail for breaking his bail.

:focus:
 
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