Coach House

[SkyRider]

I live in an area where some people are converting their coach houses and/or garages into residences and sticking their in-laws, adult children who failed to launch and/or stranger tenants in there. Is this legal? Do you see this in your neighbourhood? If yes, how do you feel about human beings living in a converted garage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_house

 

[destillat]

I live in an area where some people are converting their coach houses and/or garages into residences and sticking their in-laws, adult children who failed to launch and/or stranger tenants in there. Is this legal? Do you see this in your neighbourhood? If yes, how do you feel about human beings living in a converted garage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carriage_house

When I was in my 20s a couple of married friends of mine lived in a coach house in the Jane/Bloor area.
It was small, but for two people starting off it was all they needed.
It was completely renovated and had everything that any other small apartment would have.
What's wrong with being creative with space? We are so wasteful with space in North America. We can learn a lot from other parts of the world.

Regarding the legality of it, I have no idea, but they were there for years with no issues.
I imagine it would be the same as basement apartment.
I used to rent my basement out. According to bylaws it was illegal because it wasn't registered (which would require a fee and annual inspections by the fire department)... but my insurance company had a rider on my policy for it, and they didn't need proof of registration. I did this for years and neighbours never complained.

 

[SkyRider]

I used to rent my basement out. According to bylaws it was illegal because it wasn't registered (which would require a fee and annual inspections by the fire department)..

Apparently, the city is not enforcing this bylaw because basement apartments is a form of "affordable" housing and keep people off the street. BTW: I found out in the past 2-3 years that a lot of those big houses on Palmerston are rooming houses.

 

[destillat]

Apparently, the city is not enforcing this bylaw because basement apartments is a form of "affordable" housing and keep people off the street. BTW: I found out in the past 2-3 years that a lot of those big houses on Palmerston are rooming houses.

I think registration is a good thing... it at least gives some assurance about fire safety (working detectors, fire extinguisher, two egresses, etc...).
I guess I took a bit of a risk not registering, but it was my home, and I had a vested interest in making sure the tenants were safe and looked after... not every landlord cares.

 

[SkyRider]

I think registration is a good thing...

Same thing is happening with daycare. If everybody had to register, there would be less daycare spaces when there is already a lack of daycare spaces. I wonder how many of those rooming houses on Palmerston are registered? I asked the City once if there is a legal limit on how many humans can live in a house. The answer was no. You could have 100 people live in your house.

 

[destillat]

Same thing is happening with daycare. If everybody had to register, there would be less daycare spaces when there is already a lack of daycare spaces. I wonder how many of those rooming houses on Palmerston are registered? I asked the City once if there is a legal limit on how many humans can live in a house. The answer was no. You could have 100 people live in your house.

At least with daycares they MUST register if they care for more than 5 children (I believe).

Years ago there were a few houses in my neighbourhood that I swear were the bricks-and-mortar equivalent of clown cars.
Modest sized houses, made their driveways as large as possible, and 6 or 7 cars packed in the driveway and garage.
No idea how they were able to fit so many people in a single family dwelling.
It seemed to be an Asian thing.

 

[SkyRider]

It seemed to be an Asian thing.

You see the size of some of the Italian families in my neighbourhood. Plus they raise animals and grow tomatoes.

 

[destillat]

You see the size of some of the Italian families in my neighbourhood. Plus they raise animals and grow tomatoes.

I grew up on a street where there were two non-Italian families (mine and another one)... the tomatoes were delish... but I never understood the sheds full of pigeons... what did they do with them once they matured?

 

[Kirby2006]

Dinner

 

[IRIS]

Still much better than live on the street.

 

[SchlongConery]

You see the size of some of the Italian families in my neighbourhood. Plus they raise animals and grow tomatoes.

I am pretty familiar with the GTA and I can't think a neighbourhood with "coach houses" that are known for being italian. can you give a couple examples?

 

[SkyRider]

I am pretty familiar with the GTA and I can't think a neighbourhood with "coach houses" that are known for being italian. can you give a couple examples?

The conversation shifted a bit from coach houses to (regular) houses with large families or residents. Someone mentioned Asians, I mentioned Italians and their large families and tomatoes. Then someone mentioned Italian pigeons. I then mentioned that there are large houses on Palmerston that are actually rooming houses with many tenants.

I don't think anybody intentionally associated coach houses with Italians, although they could be, but nobody mentioned it specifically.

 

[destillat]

The conversation shifted a bit from coach houses to (regular) houses with large families or residents. Someone mentioned Asians, I mentioned Italians and their large families and tomatoes. Then someone mentioned Italian pigeons. I then mentioned that there are large houses on Palmerston that are actually rooming houses with many tenants.

I don't think anybody intentionally associated coach houses with Italians, although they could be, but nobody mentioned it specifically.

What? Pigeons live in coach houses in Asia? Talk about stereotyping.

 

[Kirby2006]

I may be wrong but here's how I read it.
The Asians live in the coach house,the Italians live in the big house
and the Greeks buy the pigeons and tomatoes for their restaurant
and call it rabbit stew.

 

[james t kirk]

Back to the issue at hand, if one wanted to convert a garage to a living space, one would need a building permit. As part of the permitting process the application would be checked for conformance with zoning bylaws. There would be several hurdles to overcome.

First and foremost, the zoning would need to permit this type of renovation.

Second, the zoning would have to check the lot coverage. Garages are typically not included in the lot coverage calculation because they are not considered living space. Converting a garage to living space means that the gross floor area of the garage would be added to the gross floor area of the house. In the older part of the city of Toronto, this would most definitely be a problem because the lots are tight. One would need to apply for a variance and go before the committee of adjustment and then, any neighbour would also have the chance to appear before the committee and oppose the application for the variance.

If you did succeed in obtaining the variance, then you need to get a building permit and that isn't going to be easy either. The "coach house" is going to have to comply with the obc for a domicile under chapter 9.

My guess is that most of these so called coach houses in the city of Toronto are illegal and all it would take is a phone call to the building department to get rid of it

 

[SkyRider]

if one wanted to convert a garage to a living space, one would need a building permit.

My guess is that most of these so called coach houses in the city of Toronto are illegal and all it would take is a phone call to the building department to get rid of it

The City and the Province realizes there is a severe shortage of affordable living spaces in the city. That is why they tolerate illegal rooming houses and place no legal limit on how many humans can live in one house. Ever notice how when a house catches fire ---- 30 people, 16 cats and 12 dogs and 4 snakes are homeless.

 

[james t kirk]

[

The City and the Province realizes there is a severe shortage of affordable living spaces in the city. That is why they tolerate illegal rooming houses and place no legal limit on how many humans can live in one house. Ever notice how when a house catches fire ---- 30 people, 16 cats and 12 dogs and 4 snakes are homeless.

I guess I'm living in a sheltered world, I've not seen that kind of a situation before.

But I can assure you of this......

If you convert a detached garage to a living space, you must get a building permit and odds are almost guaranteed, you will need a minor variance from the Committee of Adjustment with respect to zoning before you will get your building permit.

If you think you can just have at it and convert a garage because you think it's your right, and not have to follow the rules, think again. You may or may not get caught by the city itself, or MPAC. They both have people wandering around inspecting and taking pictures all the time. You'd be amazed what they have on file (I know I was.) Sooner or later, they will catch you.

AND, all it takes is one pain in the ass neighbour to complain and you WILL get caught immediately. The city is going to act on any complaint with respect to an illegal conversion right away. (They figure if you own property, you have money in that property and that's all it takes. (If you're some idiot with not even a pot to piss in, they generally leave you alone because it's not worth it to them, but if you have access to cash, they will want to talk to you.)

Besides, just thinking about what it would take to convert a garage to a living space, it isn't going to be easy. For one thing, you need water and sewage. Not so simple

 

[SkyRider]

If you convert a detached garage to a living space, you must get a building permit

Actually, I was referring to existing houses being converted to rooming houses.

However, you are no doubt correct that converting a garage or coach house to living quarters for humans would require some kind of permit from the authorities.

http://torontolife.com/style/home/great-spaces-out-back-odyssey/