CNBC commentator Marc Faber says "Thank God white people populated America, not black

Frankfooter

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I think the APA statement is a perfect example of the PC culture surrounding this topic. The fact that they admit not knowing what causes the difference in scores must necessarily mean that a genetic interpretation could explain it. They dismiss this possibility outright for no reason other than to ensure the statement is socially palatable.

If they even remotely suggested otherwise, you and Oagre and a media choir would be calling to dismantle and defund the APA for being a racist research group. All members of the APA would lose their jobs and never find work in the field again without blowback. Their professional and personal lives would be jeopardized.

Also, the statement contradicts the points you've been arguing here, namely that bias and SES cause the difference. Little empirical support for that. So if you take cultural bias and SES (collectively 'environment') out of the mix, what are you left with? Genes!
Genes are easier to test then socioeconomic and environmental influences as you can't provide a control group.
That's why its easy to do tests that say its not genetic, as they have, yet much harder to nail down which other influences are big players, from culture, economic, access to education and a host of other possible influences on how someone does on an IQ test.
 

Smallcock

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Genes are easier to test then socioeconomic and environmental influences as you can't provide a control group.
That's why its easy to do tests that say its not genetic, as they have, yet much harder to nail down which other influences are big players, from culture, economic, access to education and a host of other possible influences on how someone does on an IQ test.
Scientists have yet to disentangle the genes for intelligence, so no, I would not argue it's easier to test for them, at least not directly.

1) The 100 years of research:
"Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause," write the authors. The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001." - article featured in the APA's Psychology, Public Policy, and Law journal in 2005.

2) Regarding environment-only arguments note the following:

"Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even after matching on maternal education and other variables," ... "Therefore they cannot be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect."

"The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100;"

"Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict."
 

Smallcock

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And thus you end up justifingy racist quotas, similar to Germany enacted on April 25, 1933.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_quota
My position is that whoever gets the grade, gets access, therefore it could not be used to justify racist quotas. But your position is used for and justifies affirmative action quotas. It's a policy that actually resembles that example you cited since in some cases it denies university admission to Asians with high scores in favor of other minorities with lower scores in the US.
 

Frankfooter

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Scientists have yet to disentangle the genes for intelligence, so no, I would not argue it's easier to test for them, at least not directly.

1) The 100 years of research:
"Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause," write the authors. The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001." - article featured in the APA's Psychology, Public Policy, and Law journal in 2005.

2) Regarding environment-only arguments note the following:

"Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even after matching on maternal education and other variables," ... "Therefore they cannot be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect."

"The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100;"

"Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict."
You didn't provide any links, so I had to do a bit of digging.
You're quoting Rushton and Jensen, correct?

These two posit a theory that different 'races' have different head sizes, which gives them different brain sizes and that bigger brains mean more smarts.
Rushton's brain size theory is shoddy.
J. Philippe Rushton published multiple studies claiming that average brain size was lowest in blacks ("Negroids") and highest in Asians ("Mongoloids"), with whites ("Caucasoids") in between the two.[25][26][27] His work in this area has been criticized for relying on flawed studies, for failing to consider explanations other than genetics for the observed differences, and for ignoring other studies with contradictory conclusions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_size#Race

Rushton is also noted for his Pioneer Fund, which is listed as a hate group for its work.
Here's a good rundown on Rushton and the Pioneer Fund.
Rushton and Jensen came to my attention when Murray fingered them, along with Lawrence Summers, as the impetus for his new Commentary article. The two published a "comprehensive survey" of evidence supporting The Bell Curve this past June in the journal Psychology, Public Policy, and Law. Murray—who leans heavily on Rushton and Jensen's work both here and in The Bell Curve—identifies this survey as being the "strongest argument" yet made by race realists. Rushton has been retailing the idea of black inferiority for decades, though in two distinct styles: In pseudo-legitimate journal articles, he sounds a very Murray-like note of scholarly disinterest; at avowedly racist conventions, in front of the likes of David Duke, he argues that white women's birth canals are larger than black women's, allowing white women to give birth to larger-brained babies. In his 1995 book Race, Evolution and Behavior—now a race-realist classic—Rushton argued that "Negroids" are underevolved in comparison with "Caucosoids," because Caucosoids, having abandoned Africa for colder climates 110,000 years ago, were forced to develop their "intelligence, forward planning, sexual and personal restraint." Negroids, meanwhile, are characterized by smaller brains, larger genitals, sexual license, and lower IQs.

Rushton's work reads like a parody of 19th-century race phobia dressed up as 20th-century science, and you might think the terrifically disinterested Murray, that paragon of scientific probity, might at least mention that this was one of the keystone sources for his own conclusions. But while Murray is happy to speculate about the motives of those who reject his work—apparently it's a vast left-wing conspiracy—he refuses to seriously discuss the fact that J. Phillippe Rushton, along with Arthur Jensen and 14 other researchers whose work is cited prominently by The Bell Curve, are recipients of grant monies from the Pioneer Fund. What is the Pioneer Fund? The Pioneer Fund was founded in 1937 by Harry Laughlin and Wickliffe Draper. Laughlin is described innocuously in The Bell Curve as "a biologist who was especially concerned about keeping up the American level of intelligence by suitable immigration policies." This may have passed as an acceptable gloss in 1994, but since the publication of The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National Socialism by Stefan Kuhl and The Funding of Scientific Racism: Wickliffe Draper and The Pioneer Fund by William H. Tucker, and extensive archival work by a University of Virginia medical ethicist named Paul Lombardo, it has become—how to put it?—a tad incomplete.

Defenders of the Pioneer Fund like to portray Laughlin as a man of his era, a garden-variety eugenicist at a time when eugenic theories were common, even respectable, intellectual coin. But Laughlin was a good deal more than that. As superintendent of something called the Eugenics Record Office, Laughlin's testimony before Congress helped pass the Immigration Restriction Act of 1924. ("The Jew is doubtless here to stay," Laughlin confided to his associate Madison Grant, "and the Nordic's job is to prevent more of them from coming.") Meanwhile, as editor of the Eugenical News, Laughlin was an avid admirer of the German racial and sterilization policies being pioneeredunder Adolf Hitler. After Hitler signed the Law for the Prevention of Defective Progeny, Laughlin wrote an editorial praising Germany as one of the "great nations of the world" for its recognition of the "biological foundations of national character." When Laughlin was offered an honorary degree by the University of Heidelberg—then a fully Nazi institution purged of all Jewish remnant—he replied with "deep gratitude" at the honor "because it will come from a nation which for many centuries nurtured the human seed-stock which later founded my own country." Laughlin was unable to attend. But when his official diploma finally arrived stateside, he threw himself a luncheon on his own behalf. Two years later, he founded the Pioneer Fund.

If Laughlin acted as the (ahem) intellectual behind the Pioneer Fund, Wickliffe Draper, his partner, wrote its blank check. Heir to a vast textile fortune, Draper obsessed over the "dysgenic" degeneration of America's Nordic stock. In late August 1935, Draper traveled to Berlin to attend the International Congress for the Scientific Investigation of Population Problems. Presiding over the conference was Wilhelm Frick, the reichminister of the interior who had administered the Nuremburg Laws. (Frick was hanged in 1946 for hiscrimes against humanity.) There Draper's travel companion and Laughlin's colleague and official conference surrogate Clarence Campbell delivered an oration that concluded with the words: "The difference between the Jew and the Aryan is as unsurmountable [sic] as that between black and white. … Germany has set a pattern which other nations must follow. … To that great leader, Adolf Hitler!" Three years later, when Draper paid to print and disseminate a book titled White America, a personal copy was delivered to Reichminister Frick.
http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2005/10/moral_courage.html

Just read the criticisms of his work on his wiki page as a start.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton#Academic_opinion

Rushton was a racist who fudged his numbers to push a racist agenda.
 

Smallcock

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These two posit a theory that different 'races' have different head sizes, which gives them different brain sizes and that bigger brains mean more smarts.
Rushton's brain size theory is shoddy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_size#Race
Virtually everything in your wiki link confirms the brain size theory as far as correlation between intelligence and brain size is concerned.

Rushton is also noted for his Pioneer Fund, which is listed as a hate group for its work.
Here's a good rundown on Rushton and the Pioneer Fund.
Rushton was employed at The University of Western Ontario as a professor and researcher until falling ill with cancer. Fortunately the university supported academic freedom over political correctness.

Rushton's paper co-authored by Jensen that I cited did not rely primarily on his own data (he did very little field research of his own). Their paper aggregated 30 years worth of research on the issue. Jensen was much more of an actual researcher. Even Rushton's books were also largely comprised of aggregated data from studies done by other researchers.

Whether Rushton was a good or bad person is besides the point.

This is an article written by a journalist who admits to not knowing the science, and includes criticisms from Stephen Jay Gould whose rebuttal to The Bell Curve called The Mismeasure of Man was lauded by the public but heavily criticized by researchers.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton#Academic_opinion
Rushton was a racist who fudged his numbers to push a racist agenda.
Nowhere does it say that Rushton fudged his numbers. Second, scientific papers are always open to critique. That's how science progresses. When others find flawsin the research (e.g. its methodology), it gives the researcher the opportunity to try again and patch those flaws. Several researchers challenged Rushton via academic journals and he responded in kind. (e.g. http://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen-reply-to-commentaries-on-30years.pdf and http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=028871C0237E081F100EDF2FF154944D.f04t02 ). The reasons for the greater blow-back against Rushton are obvious - he held an unpopular view and associations in contemporary society. Third, the criticisms from the press, David Suzuki, and Tim Wise can be taken with a grain of salt since they all have agendas of their own and none work in intelligence research. The remainder of the criticism is mostly to do with Rushton's apparent unsavory advocacy and objectives. This is an issue separate from the science.

Surprisingly, for a man with such a controversial stance, there isn't much substantive criticism there.

Rushton wasn't alive when the IQ tests were administered in WWI, the results of which have remained virtually unchanged 100 years later. Rushton is gone but the science lives on.
 

Frankfooter

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Nowhere does it say that Rushton fudged his numbers. Second, scientific papers are always open to critique. That's how science progresses. When others find flawsin the research (e.g. its methodology), it gives the researcher the opportunity to try again and patch those flaws. Several researchers challenged Rushton via academic journals and he responded in kind. (e.g. http://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen-reply-to-commentaries-on-30years.pdf and http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...ionid=028871C0237E081F100EDF2FF154944D.f04t02 ). The reasons for the greater blow-back against Rushton are obvious - he held an unpopular view and associations in contemporary society. Third, the criticisms from the press, David Suzuki, and Tim Wise can be taken with a grain of salt since they all have agendas of their own and none work in intelligence research. The remainder of the criticism is mostly to do with Rushton's apparent unsavory advocacy and objectives. This is an issue separate from the science.

Surprisingly, for a man with such a controversial stance, there isn't much substantive criticism there.

Rushton wasn't alive when the IQ tests were administered in WWI, the results of which have remained virtually unchanged 100 years later. Rushton is gone but the science lives on.
Rushton's work was dismissed and not thought worthy of serious debate by most anthropologists and geneticists.
The Pioneer Fund, who backed Rushton, is about as legit as the Heritage Foundation's work on climate change.
Deniers of climate change sound quite a like you here, saying that its politically incorrect, or that their guy's research is great, or that just because there is consensus that says their claims are wrong doesn't mean that it is wrong.

The problem is your basing all your claims of scientific backing for racist ideas on one person and his work has serious flaws.

I would fully expect that you won't ever read articles critical of Rushton, or take the time to investigate for yourself to see if the reported flaws in Rushton's work are legit.
I would really hope you would, but changing racist attitudes would require a major shift.

For example, Greg Laden makes a really good argument noting that the big difference in IQ within even one family suggests that arguing that there is similar IQ's in groups not logical.
This is worth the read.
This post started out as a comment that would have gone here (but would have done just as well here). But it became sufficiently long and possibly interesting that I figured it would make a good, if somewhat rough, blog post.

The presumption being examined here is that humans are divisible into different groups (races would be one term for those groups) that are genetically distinct from one another in a way that causes those groups to have group level differences in average intelligence, as measured by IQ. More exactly, this post is about the sequence of arguments that are usually made when people try to make this assertion.

The argument usually starts out noting that there are dozens of papers that document group differences in IQ. I’ll point out right now that most of those papers are published in journals with editorial boards staffed in part or in total with well known racist scientists such as J. Philippe Rushton. That fact is not too important to what I have to say here, but since the usual argument about race and IQ starts out with “Hey, look at all these papers in these great journals” it is worth noting.

Heritability of IQ measures is then proffered, often in reference to the famous “twin studies” which show a high heritability for IQ. Heritability is a measure derived from covariance between relatedness and some phenotype. Heritability is not genetic inheritance. It is scientifically incorrect and probably academically dishonest to assume or insist that a high heritability value means that something is genetic. It often is, but it need not be. The truth is, that there are many things that could have a high heritability value but that we know are not genetic, so we don’t make a heritability estimate. There are other things for which we have strong a priori biological arguments that hey are genetic, and we thus make heritability estimates as part of the research on those things. Then there are things that we don’t know the cause of, and in those cases, making an estimate of heritability is useful as an exploratory tool. But, and this is important, arriving at a high value for heritability does not indicate genetic inheritance.

If you apply the methodology of the twin studies to language, you would find that having the capacity of language is of a similar heritability of having one head (as opposed to zero or two heads, for instance): Undefined. The number of heads does not vary, and heritability is a measure of covariation (I use the term “covariation” in a non-technical sense here). If you apply these methodologies to what language someone speaks, the heritability for that trait is very high, much much higher than for IQ. If you apply the same method to heritability of geography (the lat/long of where someone lives), it is even higher, especially for babies or people living in traditional societies.

Does everyone understand why that is the case? Familial or cultural causes may be very strong but not genetic.

The smoke and mirror part of this is equating heritability with inheritance. We speak the language we speak because it is the language of the culture we grow up in, not because of a gene for speaking French vs. a gene for speaking Sumerian.

This makes sense because we know how a person acquires language, so no one even tries to measure heritability of which language someone speaks. (Same with heritability of geographic location. It would be an absurd measure.) But people make the assumption that intelligence is inherited. Why do they make that assumption? Because lots of people for a long time wanted to, and in some cases, needed to believe this so, and thus it has become part of our culture. It is part of our uncriticized received knowledge, along with other racialized ideas and various sexist ideas, and so on. But recent research (meaning over the last 30 years) has shown us that other than in the case if inherited neuro-developmental diseases, it is impossible to imagine how intelligence can be inherited in such a way as to explain the variability we see in the most inter-group differences. That there is some genetic component is not impossible, but it is very hard to maintain the idea that it is genetic and ethnic, or genetic and racial, or genetic and explanatory of more than a few IQ points in most people. There are no genes, there are no developmental mechanisms, that have been identified. So, to many the issue of inheritance (not heritability, but inheritance via genes) of intelligence is not really an issue.

However, there are many who still need to hang on to this belief. Why they need to hang on is itself an interesting question. I can’t say for a given individual but I’ve been engaged in this conversation for 30 years and in my experience it is very often because of a desire to support a racialized model of human behavior.

The evidence for the usual IQ/Group/Race/Ethnicity/Genetic model we see (and we are seeing it again now in the present discussion) is always given first as group differences. When the language and geography analogs are brought up, we always see the twin studies brought in. But twins are raised together in the same environment. So they have the same language, the same cultural customs, the same geography etc. That they have the same IQ is not surprising.

There is an interesting set of interactions between familial effects and environmental effects with any of these twin studies results, but it has to be understood that heritability is not inheritance. If you have a genetic mechanism that is real (not inferred or made up) that integrates with a developmental process that can manifest a phenotype based on a genotype (that is real, not made up or inferred) then you can translate heritability to genetic inheritance. We seem to see this in a number of psychological conditions/diseases, for instance, and obviously we see it for a lot of physical traits. If on the other and you have familial effects that would cause offspring to resemble their parents without genes then cultural/social/familial context is more likely to be the explanation.

Variation in IQ across groups in a single society (like in the US) (which is not the same as a single culture) is known to be primarily caused by SES and home environment, and is indicated by such things as parents’ educational level. Educational levels of Americans have been going up for a hundred years. So has IQ. IQ can jump up in a generation if one generation is educated and changes home environment and SES etc., and thereafter those offspring and grand offspring have higher IQ’s. No new alleles were introduced to cause those changes. Cultural differences were introduced, and we have a concept of the mechanism by how that works.

The next argument in favor of the genetic inheritance of intelligence is often to link IQ to head size or brain size. However, much of the data related to this research is very made up or cooked, the causal arrow is problematic. Also, a third or fourth level factor in IQ is diet, which may affect brain size. Separately, a primary factor in skull shape and bone thickness is also diet (though in totally unrelated ways) which in turn is ethnic/regional… Bottom line, the system is complex, but the data do not support the assertion unless you make a big part of the data up, and Rushton has famously done.

Another argument that is often made to salvage the genetic determination (by racial group) of intelligence is the between nation data that has been more recently assembled and foisted on us. This is no different than ethic groups in the US. IQ is a standard measure, and groups vary in this value. Other measures will also result in variation. The variation is there, and the group level distinction is there. But finding more examples of that does not lead towards the conclusion that this is racial or genetic.

The final argument in favor of the inheritance of IQ via genes passed on from parent to offspring is usually to cite the twins separated at birth studies. These studies, however, simply do not show this. These twins are not separated at birth in the way most people think they are Usually, the twins knew each other as they grew up, and/or knew commonly held family members. They lived in the same culture, usually in the same city, often in the same neighborhood, and sometimes even in the same physical house. Separated at birth in these studies usually means grandma and grandpa took one of the twins to raise because mom and dad were strapped. Grandma and grandpa may have lived down the street. The kids may have attended the same school, even the same classes, and spent a lot of time together outside of schooo.

I was separated (though not from birth) from my older brother, because he lived on the second floor of a two family house, and I lived on the first floor. By the exact criteria of the twin studies, we would be counted as separated. But, that household I grew up in was a single household that happened to be set up in a two family house. The two floors were connected by an internal rear stairway. I was rather shocked to realize at one point as a child that we were the only family with two kitchens. (Or two bathrooms, for that matter.)

There may be a small component of intelligence that is inherited, but it seems to be swamped by other factors. The insistence that genes determine intelligence and that these genes are divided up in our species by groups that are often defined racially is usually misguided, and seems scientifically wrong. The supra-ultimate argument, after the final argument, brought up in this sort of conversation is usually that the anti-racist argument is a Politically Correct argument, yada yada yada. But it is actually a scientific argument, and the racialized intelligence argument is not. Making the latter a politically incorrect argument. Which is kind of funny.
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/12/22/the-argument-that-different-ra/
 

Smallcock

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Rushton's work was dismissed and not thought worthy of serious debate by most anthropologists and geneticists.
The Pioneer Fund, who backed Rushton, is about as legit as the Heritage Foundation's work on climate change.
Deniers of climate change sound quite a like you here, saying that its politically incorrect, or that their guy's research is great, or that just because there is consensus that says their claims are wrong doesn't mean that it is wrong.

The problem is your basing all your claims of scientific backing for racist ideas on one person and his work has serious flaws.

I would fully expect that you won't ever read articles critical of Rushton, or take the time to investigate for yourself to see if the reported flaws in Rushton's work are legit.
I would really hope you would, but changing racist attitudes would require a major shift.
Your post is sincere but wrong because you don't know any better. Greg Laden's article is insincere because he knows better but tries to minimize the results.

So let's break this down. You say that Rushton's work has been dismissed, the foundation funding him is illegitimate, and that I'm basing all my claims on one man.

First, my claims are not based on one man, and certainly not on Rushton nor on his work exclusively. Rushton didn't do much research of his own so there wouldn't be much to base my claims on if they were dependent on Rushton. Rushton's work was primarily compiling data from other researchers and putting them into a book(s). I think Rushton conducted one study in South Africa, and a couple here in Ontario. Very little.

Rushton did not administer SAT's, GEDs, GREs, LSATs, MCATs, 100 years of IQ tests, Twin Studies, Adoption Studies, and Head Start programs (that have had 22.5 million kids go through). All he did was report the findings of these studies and programs that were conducted by hundreds of other researchers and administered to tens of millions of people over the last century. That is the science that you need to tackle and discount, rather than focusing on Rushton for reporting the data (even if he did so for an agenda). The results of ALL the above have been consistent, across time, culture, and SES.

I've read many articles critical of Rushton and I find them making the same error that you have or lacking in sincerity.

For example, Greg Laden makes a really good argument noting that the big difference in IQ within even one family suggests that arguing that there is similar IQ's in groups not logical.
This is worth the read.

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/12/22/the-argument-that-different-ra/
Laden begins his piece with a lie - that there are only a handful of papers on IQ showing racial differences and that these are staffed by people like Rushton. Laden doesn't suffer from amnesia nor is he unaware of the enormous body of research in this area over the past century.

What's also interesting about Laden's piece is that several times throughout it, he admits that genetics might play a role, but if it does, it's small (he doesn't qualify this or provide any evidence as to why it would have to be small). This is the PC way of saying, sure the differences might be partly genetic, but *shrugs shoulders*:

That there is some genetic component is not impossible, but it is very hard to maintain . . . explanatory of more than a few IQ points in most people. There are no genes, there are no developmental mechanisms, that have been identified. So, to many the issue of inheritance (not heritability, but inheritance via genes) of intelligence is not really an issue.
There may be a small component of intelligence that is inherited, but it seems to be swamped by other factors.
Laden suggests that SES and home environment are primary drivers, yet ignores studies that have controlled for both (e.g. matching SES, and adoption studies matching home environment).

He says that the data on brain size comes from research that is "made up" or "cooked" which is just a bald faced lie (he seems to have a habit of lying or misrepresenting data). " Recent reviews by Nisbett et al. (2012b) and Mackintosh (2011) consider that current data does show an average difference in brain size and head-circumference between American Blacks and Whites, but question whether this has any relevance for the IQ gap."

At the end of the day Laden stretches credulity to suggest that IQ differences are environment-ONLY rather than the more realistic probability that our intelligence is the product of our genes and our environment.

If Laden is so sure of his claims, why doesn't he and his colleagues conduct their own studies controlling for all the "flaws" he points out and share them with the world. Most likely because he's not going to get the results he wants (talk about being between a rock and a hard place)...but thanks for sharing his PC critique.
 

mandrill

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Your post is sincere but wrong because you don't know any better. Greg Laden's article is insincere because he knows better but tries to minimize the results.

So let's break this down. You say that Rushton's work has been dismissed, the foundation funding him is illegitimate, and that I'm basing all my claims on one man.

First, my claims are not based on one man, and certainly not on Rushton nor on his work exclusively. Rushton didn't do much research of his own so there wouldn't be much to base my claims on if they were dependent on Rushton. Rushton's work was primarily compiling data from other researchers and putting them into a book(s). I think Rushton conducted one study in South Africa, and a couple here in Ontario. Very little.

Rushton did not administer SAT's, GEDs, GREs, LSATs, MCATs, 100 years of IQ tests, Twin Studies, Adoption Studies, and Head Start programs (that have had 22.5 million kids go through). All he did was report the findings of these studies and programs that were conducted by hundreds of other researchers and administered to tens of millions of people over the last century. That is the science that you need to tackle and discount, rather than focusing on Rushton for reporting the data (even if he did so for an agenda). The results of ALL the above have been consistent, across time, culture, and SES.

I've read many articles critical of Rushton and I find them making the same error that you have or lacking in sincerity.



Laden begins his piece with a lie - that there are only a handful of papers on IQ showing racial differences and that these are staffed by people like Rushton. Laden doesn't suffer from amnesia nor is he unaware of the enormous body of research in this area over the past century.

What's also interesting about Laden's piece is that several times throughout it, he admits that genetics might play a role, but if it does, it's small (he doesn't qualify this or provide any evidence as to why it would have to be small). This is the PC way of saying, sure the differences might be partly genetic, but *shrugs shoulders*:



Laden suggests that SES and home environment are primary drivers, yet ignores studies that have controlled for both (e.g. matching SES, and adoption studies matching home environment).

He says that the data on brain size comes from research that is "made up" or "cooked" which is just a bald faced lie. " Recent reviews by Nisbett et al. (2012b) and Mackintosh (2011) consider that current data does show an average difference in brain size and head-circumference between American Blacks and Whites, but question whether this has any relevance for the IQ gap."

At the end of the day Laden stretches credulity to suggest that IQ differences are environment-ONLY rather than the more realistic probability that our intelligence is the product of our genes and our environment.

If Laden is so sure of his claims, why doesn't he and his colleagues conduct their own studies controlling for all the "flaws" he points out and share them with the world. Most likely because he's not going to get the results he wants...but thanks for sharing his PC critique.
I lost patience with your "science" a couple of pages ago, so I don't know why I am bothering.

As I understand it from the Wiki article you linked, there are only a couple of 1-off studies that get past the "environmental" input issue. One of these is the Korean kids in Belgium. This sounds like a small enough sample size to be unreliable - even assuming the rest of the study was impeccable.

Rushton may be taking thousands of intelligence test results, but none of that testing avoids environmental input. No one is arguing that wealthy suburban white kids don't do better academically than inner city black kids; the normal explanation - which seems perfectly satisfactory to me - is that environment and opportunity makes a huge difference between those 2 backgrounds.

Brain size doesn't correlate to intellect. Neanderthals had larger brains than Homo Sapiens.

The Pioneer Fund - IIRC - has been accused of being a hate organization by the ACLU. So I will take the ACLU's opinion on that over yours.

Your issue is that you re state the same pseudo science over and over again and then get mad when others don't accept that you're a genius and agree with you. Just close the thread and move on.
 

Smallcock

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I lost patience with your "science" a couple of pages ago, so I don't know why I am bothering.

As I understand it from the Wiki article you linked, there are only a couple of 1-off studies that get past the "environmental" input issue. One of these is the Korean kids in Belgium. This sounds like a small enough sample size to be unreliable - even assuming the rest of the study was impeccable.

Rushton may be taking thousands of intelligence test results, but none of that testing avoids environmental input. No one is arguing that wealthy suburban white kids don't do better academically than inner city black kids; the normal explanation - which seems perfectly satisfactory to me - is that environment and opportunity makes a huge difference between those 2 backgrounds.
If it were only wealthy suburban white kids being compared to inner city black kids, you would have a strong argument. But that isn't the case now is it. You're close to strawman territory.


Brain size doesn't correlate to intellect. Neanderthals had larger brains than Homo Sapiens.
This is a silly argument. You're comparing two different species. Whales have HUGE brains but we're smarter than them, therefore bigger brains among humans cannot correlate to intellect? You're smarter than this. Inching ever closer to strawman territory.

The Pioneer Fund - IIRC - has been accused of being a hate organization by the ACLU. So I will take the ACLU's opinion on that over yours.
I didn't state an opinion on this. In fact, I don't have one. Who cares what they are? Why is this relevant?

Your issue is that you re state the same pseudo science over and over again and then get mad when others don't accept that you're a genius and agree with you. Just close the thread and move on.
You're attacking me for "pseudo science", not the other way around.
 

Frankfooter

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Rushton did not administer SAT's, GEDs, GREs, LSATs, MCATs, 100 years of IQ tests, Twin Studies, Adoption Studies, and Head Start programs (that have had 22.5 million kids go through). All he did was report the findings of these studies and programs that were conducted by hundreds of other researchers and administered to tens of millions of people over the last century. That is the science that you need to tackle and discount, rather than focusing on Rushton for reporting the data (even if he did so for an agenda). The results of ALL the above have been consistent, across time, culture, and SES.
This is the primary criticism of Rushton, that he fudged the numbers.
The easiest way for me to prove this is to challenge you to come up with supporting papers by people who weren't funded by the Pioneer Fund.
If you can list 3 legit papers saying Rushton's numbers are good I'll concede your claim.
But if you can't, you'll have to concede that Rushton's numbers are only supported by the Pioneer Fund.

Fair?

For instance, here's one study calling Rushton's work garbage.
Abstract

J. P. Rushton and A. R. Jensen (see record 2005-03637-001) ignore or misinterpret most of the evidence of greatest relevance to the question of heritability of the Black-White IQ gap. A dispassionate reading of the evidence on the association of IQ with degree of European ancestry for members of Black populations, convergence of Black and White IQ in recent years, alterability of Black IQ by intervention programs, and adoption studies lend no support to a hereditarian interpretation of the Black-White IQ gap. On the contrary, the evidence most relevant to the question indicates that the genetic contribution to the Black-White IQ gap is nil. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)
http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2005-03637-003
 

Frankfooter

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This is a silly argument. You're comparing two different species. Whales have HUGE brains but we're smarter than them, therefore bigger brains among humans cannot correlate to intellect? You're smarter than this. Inching ever closer to strawman territory.
.
I agree, arguing that brain size is related to intellect in any species or only in one species is incredibly silly.
 

Smallcock

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I agree, arguing that brain size is related to intellect in any species or only in one species is incredibly silly.
I don't know if brain size is related to intellect in any species, however there appears to be a small correlation in humans. A common theory in evolution is that humans developed bigger brains (e.g. compared to other apes) as we became smarter.

Does this mean bigger human brains are smarter? I don't know. In layman's terms it is possible - the bigger the storage area for brain power, possibly the smarter the brain can be. But I do recall a study that said the brain/head size is relative to body size. In other words, a small person might have a smaller head and smaller brain but that doesn't mean smaller people are less capable. I really haven't looked into this much at all.
 

Frankfooter

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I don't know if brain size is related to intellect in any species, however there appears to be a small correlation in humans. A common theory in evolution is that humans developed bigger brains (e.g. compared to other apes) as we became smarter.

Does this mean bigger human brains are smarter? I don't know. In layman's terms it is possible - the bigger the storage area for brain power, possibly the smarter the brain can be. But I do recall a study that said the brain/head size is relative to body size. In other words, a small person might have a smaller head and smaller brain but that doesn't mean smaller people are less capable. I really haven't looked into this much at all.
Rushton's entire premise is based off a victorian era claim that big brain = big smarts.
If you don't think its legit, then you're questioning Rushton's work.
 

Smallcock

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This is the primary criticism of Rushton, that he fudged the numbers.
The easiest way for me to prove this is to challenge you to come up with supporting papers by people who weren't funded by the Pioneer Fund.
If you can list 3 legit papers saying Rushton's numbers are good I'll concede your claim.
But if you can't, you'll have to concede that Rushton's numbers are only supported by the Pioneer Fund.

Fair?

For instance, here's one study calling Rushton's work garbage.

http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2005-03637-003
I don't think you know how science works. If other researchers poke holes in your paper, it doesn't make it "garbage". It means do more research to fix those holes and open up your research to evaluation again. If it were "garbage" it wouldn't have made it into the peer reviewed journals of the APA.

The paper you posted is old news.

Rushton & Jensen first published the following paper http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.186.102&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The paper you cited by Richard Nisbett was published as a response: http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2005-03637-003

Rushton & Jensen published a response to Nisbett's paper: http://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen-reply-to-commentaries-on-30years.pdf

Nowhere does it say that Rushton "fudged the numbers" so your claim is false.

The paper by Rushton and Jensen cite many studies that support their thesis that have nothing to do with the Pioneer Fun. You want three of those?

If you click on http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.186.102&rep=rep1&type=pdf and scroll down to page 284, you will see the References section to all the studies cited in their paper. There are dozens of them. You want me to post 3 of them here? Why?

Rushton and Jensen have never stated that ONLY genes produce intellect. They take the position that environment and genes are 50/50. Whereas you and others argue that it's 100% environment 0% genetic.
 

Smallcock

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Rushton's entire premise is based off a victorian era claim that big brain = big smarts.
If you don't think its legit, then you're questioning Rushton's work.
No, that's not what his entire premise is based on. In fact, that premise could be entirely wrong while his thesis could remain intact.

He co-authored the paper with Arthur Jensen. It seems to me that while controversial, Jensen's work was never considered to be "garbage"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Jensen

"He was rated as one of the 50 most eminent psychologists of the 20th century."
 

Frankfooter

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I don't think you know how science works. If other researchers poke holes in your paper, it doesn't make it "garbage". It means do more research to fix those holes and open up your research to evaluation again. If it were "garbage" it wouldn't have made it into the peer reviewed journals of the APA.

The paper you posted is old news.

Rushton & Jensen first published the following paper http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.186.102&rep=rep1&type=pdf

The paper you cited by Richard Nisbett was published as a response: http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2005-03637-003

Rushton & Jensen published a response to Nisbett's paper: http://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen-reply-to-commentaries-on-30years.pdf

Nowhere does it say that Rushton "fudged the numbers" so your claim is false.

The paper by Rushton and Jensen cite many studies that support their thesis that have nothing to do with the Pioneer Fun. You want three of those?

If you click on http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.186.102&rep=rep1&type=pdf and scroll down to page 284, you will see the References section to all the studies cited in their paper. There are dozens of them. You want me to post 3 of them here? Why?

Rushton and Jensen have never stated that ONLY genes produce intellect. They take the position that environment and genes are 50/50. Whereas you and others argue that it's 100% environment 0% genetic.
I'm challenging you to find three other legit papers backing up Rushton's work that weren't funded by the Pioneer Fund, not to link to Rushton's bibliography.
And not a study or book that starts from the premise that Rushton's work is correct, like the Bell Curve, but one that actually checks Rushton's work to see if there are errors.
Like this one:
Abstract
The last decade of the 20th century experienced a resurgence of genetically based theories of racial hierarchy regarding intelligence and morality. Most notably was Herrnstein and Murray's The Bell Curve (1994), that claimed genetic causality for long-standing racial differences in IQ. In addition, it raised the time worn argument that the over-reproduction of genetically deficient individuals within our population would lead to a serious decline in average American intelligence. These authors provided no specific rationale for why these genetic differences should exist between human `races'. Instead, they relied heavily on the work of Canadian psychologist J. Philipe Rushton (in The Bell Curve, 1994, Appendix 5: 642—3). Rushton has advanced a specific evolutionary genetic rationale for how gene frequencies are differentiated between the `races' relative to intelligence. He claims that human racial differences result from natural selection for particular reproductive strategies in the various racial groups. Rushton's theory is based entirely on the concept of r- and K-selection, first explicitly outlined by MacArthur and Wilson in 1967. This article examines both the flaws in the general theory, and specifically Rushton's application of that same theory to human data. It concludes that neither Rushton's use of the theory nor the data that he has assembled could possibly test any meaningful hypotheses concerning human evolution and/or the distribution of genetic variation relating to reproductive strategies or `intelligence', however defined.
http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1469962002002002627
 

Frankfooter

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No, that's not what his entire premise is based on. In fact, that premise could be entirely wrong while his thesis could remain intact.
No, without this claim about different brain sizes between his 'races' his argument falls apart.
Read it and check it for yourself, don't take my word for it.
 

Smallcock

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I'm challenging you to find three other legit papers backing up Rushton's work that weren't funded by the Pioneer Fund, not to link to Rushton's bibliography.
And not a study or book that starts from the premise that Rushton's work is correct, like the Bell Curve, but one that actually checks Rushton's work to see if there are errors.
Like this one:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1469962002002002627
Papers don't get published patting the backs of other researchers. They get published when they have alternate hypothesis or find errors in other works so that the research can be refined and re-evaluated using better data and methodologies. Are you getting a feel for how this science thing works?

Maybe you're looking for a positive book review?

Here's some reviews on The Bell Curve, which used similar data, though the book primarily about IQ, not racial differences (it didn't save the authors from blowback):

Milton Friedman This brilliant, original, objective, and lucidly written book will force you to rethink your biases and prejudices about the role that individual difference in intelligence plays in our economy, our policy, and our society.

Chester E. Finn, Jr. Commentary The Bell Curve's implications will be as profound for the beginning of the new century as Michael Harrington's discovery of "the other America" was for the final part of the old. Richard Herrnstein's bequest to us is a work of great value. Charles Murray's contribution goes on.

Prof. Thomas J. Bouchard Contemporary Psychology [The authors] have been cast as racists and elitists and The Bell Curve has been dismissed as pseudoscience....The book's message cannot be dismissed so easily. Herrnstein and Murray have written one of the most provocative social science books published in many years....This is a superbly written and exceedingly well documented book.

Christopher Caldwell American Spectator The Bell Curve is a comprehensive treatment of its subject,never mean-spirited or gloating. It gives a fair hearing to those who dissent scientifically from its propositions -- in fact, it bends over backward to be fair....Among the dozens of hostile articles that have thus far appeared, none has successfully refuted any of its science.

Malcolme W. Browne The New York Times Book Review Mr. Murray and Mr. Herrnstein write that "for the last 30 years, the concept of intelligence has been a pariah in the world of ideas," and that the time has come to rehabilitate rational discourse on the subject. It is hard to imagine a democratic society doing otherwise.

Prof. Eugene D. Genovese National Review Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray might not feel at home with Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Lani Guinier, but they should....They have all [made] brave attempts to force a national debate on urgent matters that will not go away. And they have met the same fate. Once again, academia and the mass media are straining every muscle to suppress debate.

Prof. Earl Hunt American Scientist The first reactions to The Bell Curve were expressions of public outrage. In the second round of reaction, some commentators suggested that Herrnstein and Murray were merely bringing up facts that were well known in the scientific community, but perhaps best not discussed in public. A Papua New Guinea language has a term for this, Mokita. It means "truth that we all know, but agree not to talk about." ...There are fascinating questions here for those interested in the interactions between sociology, economics, anthropology and cognitive science. We do not have the answers yet. We may need them soon, for policy makers who rely on Mokita are flying blind.
 

Smallcock

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Charles Murray defended the use of studies supported by the fund in his book The Bell Curve by saying: "Never mind that the relationship between the founder of the Pioneer Fund and today's Pioneer Fund is roughly analogous to the relationship between Henry Ford's antisemitism and today's Ford Foundation. The charges have been made, they have wide currency, and some people will always believe that The Bell Curve rests on data concocted by neo-Nazi eugenicists"
 

Frankfooter

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Papers don't get published patting the backs of other researchers. They get published when they have alternate hypothesis or find errors in other works so that the research can be refined and re-evaluated using better data and methodologies. Are you getting a feel for how this science thing works?

Maybe you're looking for a positive book review?
When someone comes up with a non-consensus claim other researchers will do papers on the subject to investigate those claims to see if their own work should be reconsidered. That's really how science works.

Book reviews are not at all the same thing, you need to find scientists whose own research has backed up Rushton's work and aren't funded by the Pioneer Fund.
I understand that this is a near impossible task, since the science doesn't support Rushton's claims, that's why I asked you to do it.

If you can't do it, that's the point.
 
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