"Cigareetes and Whisky and Wild, Wild Women....

[Willywants]

...they'll drive you crazy, they'll drive you insane,"

If I recall correctly, this was a song sung years ago by Phil Harris!
For those of you too young to remember him, he was the the voice of Baloo in Disney's "Jungle Book"!
In any case, I can't but wonder how true those words are and if they apply to me or any of you hoobbyists out there!
I smoke, I drink whisky and I surely love wild, wild women, but, so far, I don't think I am crazy or insane.
The wife, until further notice, has it on her sources of authority, that I am addicted. I like to hit the casino periodically, so I'm addicted to gambling! I like to have a few drinks now and again, so I'm an alcoholic! And, of course, she has seen too much evidence of my dabblings with the hobby, so I am addicted to women!
She see's me running apace toward a life of "no good"!
In reality, the reality she hesitates to accept is, that I am not running toward any such perdition! I am running away from a stifling relationship that thwarts any possibility of expressing ones individuality, imagination and creativity!
I am a Sagittarian after all! What is life without the ability to give expression to ones inner passions! What is life without the freedom to express one's self in all respects and not be castigated for it!
The marriage, as it has stood for all these years, is effectively over! With the biggest balls I think I have ever carried, I told the lady that I could not, would not and didn't want to be the who or the what she has been trying to make me over to be!
I am who I am and want to stay that way!
Why has it taken so long to come to this??? Guilt!!!
So much guilt as to weigh one heavily down and twist the clear thought process!
Now hear this! The lady won't give up! She declares she still loves me and I can see the inner workings of her twisted mind!
Stand by me and support me in my hour of need, fend off those demons that seem to surround me! Save the man, for he is worth saving! That's what I hear!
What doesn't manifest itself in words is the fact that she cannot accept the failure of a marriage and whatever stigmatism she attaches to that. In the end, I suppose, it is about saving herself! Once again, the guilt! But this time, I do not accept it!
Will I stay in this relationship as she would prefer me to do?
Given that she can accept me as a free spirit, which I am, given that she can quit foisting her particulat set of values off on me and given that I can continue to love her, perhaps!
The manipulation stops here and now!
In the mean time, I will continue to run in the direction I have chosen, not the direction of her choosing! If I get far enough away from the front door, the ties that bind will surely break!
All said and done, you now know Willy's current plight!
How many of my fellow TERBites can see themselves in this little dissertation!

Willywants (to be free! Jump Willy! Jump!)

 

[booblicker68]

Willy,

I to share your plight I have been married 38 years and just this morning found out I can't even get a coffee without instruction.
After awhile I descovered that there are many women in the world with whom spending time enjoying the moment is possible.

Yes they want money to be with you but doesn't your wife also want money and for what.

Thank God for the lovely ladies you don't think I am depraved.

 

[Chivas Regal]

Willy,

I too found myself in this predicament, albeit I was much younger the first time. I am aries he said, and NO ONE tells me how to be!

Yeah right. Back to my point. The first time I divorced I felt that my world had opened me up to a new freedom. Initially I felt the guilt you speak of. Then I realized that I am not responsable for how someone else feels. I am who I am! It took five soul searching years to discover what and who I was, but after I morphed from the old to the new, I never looked back. One of the hardest things to do is break the chains that bind you. The guilt you feel now will help you in the long run to show you what YOU don't want in the future.

If she is concerned only about herself and is trying to safe face- hers, than you would probably be better off being you, the real you. If you have children they are probably already aware of the friction between the two of you and would be happier for you both if there was no more.

I am now a free spirit, after I learned these lessons. I no longer hide behind my guilt. I am me, and I am free!

Chivas

 

[Willywants]

Individuality vs Loneliness!

I hear you secret!
How many fear giving expression to their individuality lest those that surround us, those we love, see us as abherrant, different, not fitting the mold???
Loneliness can often be the price one has to pay, simply for the lack of understanding, the inability of others to empathize and understand who we really are!
My wife will never be lonely! She has an absolute plethora of friends, who, by the way, think she has been abused and hard done by for all her married life! She has not been "quietly suffering" all these years! Distorted truths hurt much more than the absolute! In a long term relationship, abuse is not abnormal!
As a wise man once said, "you always hurt the one you love"!
Probably more truthful for the truth sayer!

Willy

 

[Timberwolf]

Willy

It has been my observation and opinion that those who surround ( read distract themselves ) with many "friends" are the most lonely. I was at a party last friday night and observed several people running like hell to avoid being with themselves.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[zoickss]

Willy,

I totally sympathize with your plight. Myself, I have been married for 9 years. My wife (for multiple reasons) has lost all interest in sex – I lucky if I get it quarterly. I understand that her reasons for it are medically related, but that doesn’t make it much easier to handle. Other than sex wise I would say our relationship is mostly healthy. I am not about to leave the relationship strictly on the premise of sex (or lack of). I use hobbying as my outlet to take care of this. I realize our situations are different – but my heart goes out to you, it takes a lot of courage to realize and admit what is truly happening – and to do something about it. I have contemplated leaving – but as my case is a quite different – I have decided against it, as really it would be for selfish reasons. As well I don’t relish the thought of losing everything we have built up, financially and emotionally. Willy all the best to you – and keep your chin up. I hope you aren’t feeling too much guilt over this because as I see it – you have sincerely tried your best to resolve things. Some things unfortunately just can’t be changed.

Hope this makes sense to you.

 

[vidi vici veni]

[snip]The wife, until further notice, has it on her sources of authority, that I am addicted. I like to hit the casino periodically, so I'm addicted to gambling! I like to have a few drinks now and again, so I'm an alcoholic! And, of course, she has seen too much evidence of my dabblings with the hobby, so I am addicted to women![snip]

Oh Willy! Given how quickly you fell under the spell of the Russkie Shrinkette, I'm wondering if you aren't just a little 'addicted' to suffering and servitude - at least as far as women are concerned! Your own gaoler perhaps?

vvv

 

[Willywants]

Close To The Truth!

Well triple v!
You may have hit the nail, even if not square on the head!
Don't we all, at one time or another, to one degree or another, wallow in our own misery?
The lovely shrinkette only gave liscence to do what needed to be done, to be myself, to do what makes me happy!
Mission almost accomplished!
While she did caution, as sessions unfolded, not to make any rash decisions or moves in the then depressed mental state, she didn't stand down from her original suggestion as light finally dawned!
The thing that worries her in my pursuit, is not that I may wind up a lonely old man, although that is what she suggests may result for the giving up of the security of home and family, but rather, I think her worry is more personal and that she may hold herself accountable for the break up of a marriage for the advice given!

Willy

 

[joebob]

Just out of curiosity, what are the divorce laws like in Canada? Can a guy walk away from a marriage with most of his net worth and a chance at a financial future?

Joebob

 

[peeler_feeler]

Divorce too expensive

No !!!

1/2 or more of net worth is gone if it was built up togethor with your spouse and if children are involved the child support payments go on until they are 18 (or so I think).

Willy, excellent, excellent thread!!!

I am married with two children and wanting an escape too. But the guilt and selfishness I feel won't let me pursue that option yet. And SOCIETY (or my part of it via circle of friends and family) would not accept the "free spirit" theme! It's unfortunate you have to grow older and wiser to undertand more of you want and don't want in life.

Of friends that have been divorced, they have praised the freedom early on. However, they have also talked about the lonliness after the initial freedom phase wore off.

If you can be truly HAPPY with yourself then that is the most important thing to live with!!!

 

[Groucho]

Willywants

You describe a very unhappy relationship. Putting myself in your place, as you've described it, I feel trapped. stifled, miserable. It sounds as though, for you, the relationship is over.
But...it sounds as though you feel guilt about this and are looking to us for absolution. But, absolution doesn't come easy. From your posts, you are clearly aware of this. You wish to be a free spirit, able to drink, smoke and carouse as you will. You are unhappy because your partner can't deal with this. Is this the main problem in the relationship? I would guess...No. If you were a drinker, gambler, carouser at the start of the relationship, and your partner was opposed, you guys would have broken apart long ago. If you've become all those things since the relationship started, then, you need to figure out why.
It sounds as though the relationship is over. It also sounds as though you are trying to lay most of the blame for this on the fact that she can't accept that you smoke, drink, gamble, and carry on with other woman.
If you have *always* smoked, drunk, gambled and carried on with women, well, I'd say it's her problem that she expected you to change. If this behavior has started, or grown dramatically, since the marriage, then, I'd say, the onus is on you to "do the right thing" As to what the right thing is, your conscience has to be the guide. Not your wants, not your rationalizations, not your bitterness, not what all the folks here say. Your conscience. You've got to be able to get up every morning, look into that mirror, and like what you see.
Good luck!

 

[Willywants]

Well, Goodness Gracious Me!

Just for the record, the smoking is a long time habit, which, one day, shall be kicked, hopefully before it kicks me!
Social drinking has never been a problem as it has always been in moderation, along with the wife BTW.
The need to drown sorrows in booze in the confines of my own home, was a recent attempt to escape the reality of the situation. The clearness of current thought is a result of months of abstinence.
The pursuit of other women was a search for acceptance as a man! I needed to know that I was a man and that I really was okay!
Finally realizing that a near 40 year relationship with the same woman has just been a long term emasculating exercise is not very palatable!
With chidren raised and now on their own, there is no issue in that regard.
If one would choose to view an attempt at "self" preservation as being selfish, then so be it.
I think what may have been missed in the original post, was my attempt to give the situation something of a light treatment.
I have never been an inveterate boozer or womanizer!
Smoker!! Yes! Ugh!
I suggest that the way my wife has tried to handle my run for freedom was to label me "addict" in need of couselling! Heaven forbid she should look to herself as the cause of such foreign behaviour.
Nuff said for the doubters and nay sayers!

Willywants (to proceed on his merry way!)

 

[alphaBIT]

Have any of you tried counselling? I hear there's also counselling that helps a couple with separation.

 

[Willywants]

Marital Counselling Requires Two!

Always an open option for me, but not for the wife!
It would mean airing dirty laundry in front of an outsider!
Heaven forbid!!!
Methinks she hides deep, dark secrets and demons of her own!
Should I care?? Should I stand by her as a dutiful husband in order to fend off her demons should they one day surface?
I think a 40 year investment is sufficient!
She will not seek help and will only listen to those who agree with her and support her ego!
The facade is wonderful! Everybody loves her!
But deep, deep down I would not want to venture!

Willy

 

[Chivas Regal]

Re: Marital Counselling Requires Two!

Always an open option for me, but not for the wife!
It would mean airing dirty laundry in front of an outsider!
Heaven forbid!!!
Methinks she hides deep, dark secrets and demons of her own!
Should I care?? Should I stand by her as a dutiful husband in order to fend off her demons should they one day surface?
I think a 40 year investment is sufficient!
She will not seek help and will only listen to those who agree with her and support her ego!
The facade is wonderful! Everybody loves her!
But deep, deep down I would not want to venture!

Willy

My, my Willy. Why are you afraid to venture??
Some of the most soul searching trips with your partner are long term investments that pay HUGE dividends. You know that your wife of almost 40 years does not like to speak to Outsiders, and YOU haven't taken the time to talk to her about how SHE feels?? WHY?

Why do you feel the need for a 3rd party to counsel with when you haven't even tried to understand her on your own? Are you afraid of her? Are you afraid of the emotional conversation with her? It may lead to the breakthrough that you so desperately seek.

There are 3 sides to every story, yours,hers and the truth. So far we only know yours. But I am sure that she can't be all that bad- she stayed with you for almost 40 years.Why are you upset that she has so many friends? Do your children take her side? Perhaps the answers to these questions lie in the emotional investment that she put in over the last 40 years.

Chivas (Inquiring Minds need to know) Regal

 

[QB7]

Willy

I think at the TERB party we ought to take up a collection and send you and the Missus down to be on the Dr Phil show.

(Hey, you said you trying to keep this thread lighthearted!!!)

Cheers

QB7

 

[Willywants]

Now You're Hitting Home!

Dear Mr. C. Regal!
Do you think that 2 people could spend 40 years caring and sharing without discussing the nuts and bolts of the realtionship and where it might be headed?
Certainly the efforts have been made, in quiet times, in intimate times and in cluttered times, to try and understand each others needs and what should be done to satisfy those needs! There has never been a closed door, or more importantly, a closed mind throughout those 40 years!
We have soul searched independent of each other, as well as together! Third party assistance in trying to understand the wedge between us and to reconcile differences would only be a last resort, and not necessarily a solution at that!
My absence from this forum was due to efforts being made to fully understand our, repeat our, situation and particular circumstance with a view to resolving long term issues and moving on with our lives, together!
I would like to be delicate here, but the situation does not permit! Mr. Regal! If you have never had a vise attached to your balls and then tightened slowly until it reaches maximum discomfort, .......Enough said! I hope!

Willy

 

[Chivas Regal]

Wily,

In no way did I mean to get your back up. I thought they were valid questions. If you were looking for help, I assume you were, then why did were you so offended by my 'personal' questions?

Certainly, violence and threats will help your cause.

Best of luck Willy, I hope that you find happiness. No one should live there life "in a trap".

Chivas (balls in hand) Regal

 

[Willywants]

No Bristles Here!

Hey CR! No umbrage taken on my part! Just thought I would respond as directly as you questioned!
I just think that in the way your questions were posed, there was an assumption that all due effort and consideration had not been given to the situation!
We are still communicating on a number of outstanding issues, which, with proper resolution, could possibly see the relationship continue, but on an entirely different footing!
I know what I want and where I'm heading! The secret of any success for me will be in having the wife emerge from the state of denial she has lived in all these years!
She has always had that most aggravating of attitudes, "I'm alright! What's the matter with you?" Not bad for her own mental health, but devastating on others when she goes about trying to prove that someone else has the problem or is the problem!
Know anyone like that in your life?
It's a very narcissistic trait!

Willy

 

[Quest4Less]

Wisodm

A very old man once told me "Sonny, a man marries a woman because of what he sees in front of him. A woman marries a man because of what she thinks she can make him into".