Career Change - What would you do?

[james t kirk]

Ah, ah. Yeah, you do. Tell your current boss of the new job offer and have him match it.

Gyaos.

Can't.

Already gave my word to the new guy that I wouldn't do that. It's never wise to take a counter offer anyway. The trust has been broken. It's like when you find out your wife has been cheating on you and you forgive her and take her back. Although you might still be together, in the back of your mind you're thinking you can't trust her.

It's not the done thing in my books. You either stay or go.

Plus, knowing my boss, he'd probably be thinking, "ok, you were going to fuck me, so now, I'm going to look for someone to replace you on my terms, then I'm slowly going to box you out"

Nope, I respect my boss, he's technically capable, and he's a decent manager.

I actually feel like I am betraying him a bit.

 

[james t kirk]

I don't think its 10% ownership of the company. Rather, it's 10% of base as share ownership.

Careful with the 1/2 and 1/2. That's asking to be sued.

It's owning 10% of the shares in the company over time. Payable in 2% increments over 5 years.

He still owns the lion's share of the shares, and rightfully so since he took all the risks to start it and has made a success of it. I admire this guy. He's very methodical and driven. He sets his sights on something and he achieves it. Whether that be business, or personal. I honestly can't say I've ever met a guy like him. I truly respect him.

 

[gramage]

In my opinion you've only listed one negative that would sway me if I were in your position and thats travel. How much more are you looking at and how much do you hate it? If you think the travel is going to screw up your work/life balance think really hard how you balance that before doing one or the other. If you feel you can balance it then grab that ring. For one it sounds like a great opportunity and two it sounds like your current job isn't satisfying and if thats the case you'll be more frustrated for having passed on this. But then I'm only finding my new opportunities for having been let go frommy company so take my advice with that grain of salt.

 

[james t kirk]

I guess what's happening is that the economic blast is freaking me out. Been watching too much CNN. As stated, I have security where I am (more than most shall we say). There is more risk with this new job.

My current company was bought out a while back and I've never liked the fact that we became part of this MASSIVE world wide company. I've watched the bosses angle for their own positions and I've watched people quit in disgust. I must admit that I felt a greater sense of pride when we were this decent sized Canadian company.

I like my work, but I don't like what the company has become.

I worked for a very small company before and I had way more fun, but I had to deal with an owner who was quite paranoid.

Working for a huge compnay, it's funny watching some of the guys who I work with who are on a lower level think only about themselves. At my level, the projects are mine to run. I take great pride in delivering a quality product on budget and I often work a lot of hours to achieve that. Those around me, however, just think that a job number is a cash cow for them to bill to death. The sooner the better. It's like letting kids loose in the Candy factory. They don't care about budgets, or profits, or anything other than padding their time sheets.

 

[james t kirk]

In my opinion you've only listed one negative that would sway me if I were in your position and thats travel. How much more are you looking at and how much do you hate it? If you think the travel is going to screw up your work/life balance think really hard how you balance that before doing one or the other. If you feel you can balance it then grab that ring. For one it sounds like a great opportunity and two it sounds like your current job isn't satisfying and if thats the case you'll be more frustrated for having passed on this. But then I'm only finding my new opportunities for having been let go frommy company so take my advice with that grain of salt.

I hate travel a lot, but not to the point of being sick about it.

I used to travel way more than I do now and it drove me nuts. I'd be gone for weeks on end. With the new job I will be travelling at least once a month for a few days which is fine, though there will be times when this increases. It's the traveling every day that will kill you.

A big part of the reason my client wants me to work for him is that he wants to grow in Ontario and the GTA. (He is based outside Ontario). I'm there to help him do that. If we can get things humming in Ontario and the GTA, the travel will decrease.

There is no romance in traveling for work, that is for sure.

 

[gramage]

I guess what's happening is that the economic blast is freaking me out. Been watching too much CNN. As stated, I have security where I am (more than most shall we say). There is more risk with this new job.

My current company was bought out a while back and I've never liked the fact that we became part of this MASSIVE world wide company. I've watched the bosses angle for their own positions and I've watched people quit in disgust. I must admit that I felt a greater sense of pride when we were this decent sized Canadian company.

I like my work, but I don't like what the company has become.

I worked for a very small company before and I had way more fun, but I had to deal with an owner who was quite paranoid.

Working for a huge compnay, it's funny watching some of the guys who I work with who are on a lower level think only about themselves. At my level, the projects are mine to run. I take great pride in delivering a quality product on budget and I often work a lot of hours to achieve that. Those around me, however, just think that a job number is a cash cow for them to bill to death. The sooner the better. It's like letting kids loose in the Candy factory. They don't care about budgets, or profits, or anything other than padding their time sheets.

To suggest something else, lets say worst case scenario and your new job doesn't work out. You've been this successful in your industry you will be found very quickly and I suspect land very comfortably. Like I said my last post I lost my job acouple of weeks ago, well within I three or four days of putting my resume online I was called by a recruitment agency who set me up with an interview with a new company (there's a good chance they offer me a position next week knock on wood.) So if you don't like things about where you are, your close friends are no longer there and you don't trust your new co-workers/bosses, I think your borderinhg on taking even LESS risk taking this new job then staying on where you are.

I should also mention I'm having luck this fast and I don't think I have been nearly successful as you describe yourself.

 

[nottyboi]

Ask for the golden parachute.

I would agree to this one. You have 10 years seniority where you are, tell him you will move if he agrees to a minimum of 18 months severence if you are terminated. That is roughly what you would get now.

 

[Ref]

I would agree to this one. You have 10 years seniority where you are, tell him you will move if he agrees to a minimum of 18 months severence if you are terminated. That is roughly what you would get now.

As per a recent discussion with our labour lawyer - If you are recruited by company A and you have X amount of years of service at company B, then company A will assume the years of service from company B in the event of a termination. The key is proving that they recruited you, as opposed to you asking to work for them.

However, most employment contracts should have a separation/termination clause for both parties.

I am sure that you have already reviewed your current employment contract in regards to any confidentiality/non-compete clauses, so in your situation...

Tough call! But it sounds like you are leaning towards taking on a new challenge. If you don't try it, then you will question yourself and chances are, you may not be as content in your current role because you will always wonder "What if".

Besides, with approximately 20 years experience you should have a lot of transferable skills that will allow you to survive in any economic condition.

Good luck!

 

[brocko]

I agree with Ref, good call. It sounds like you are already comfortable financially and have security. Go for this job , it will fill your need to belong and be a part of of something rather than the guy on the outside looking in.Likely this would be the "big score" most of us only wish we could get in our careers. If you hang in 10 years or more then its freedom 55 for you pal.

 

[james t kirk]

That is a good point that I didn't think of - "What if"

Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all I suppose. You are very right that I would always be wondering.

I've never thought of myself as someone who was afraid to take risks. That being said, I've had some shots that I've taken over the years backfire rather nicely in my face. I had actually been trying to convince 3 other coworkers to start our own company. One guy was completely on board, the third was interested but he wanted others to fund it (nice try) and the 4'th was downright scared like a little girl. The two of us could not have made a successful go at it and so the guy who was on board recently quit in disgust and moved to another better opportunity. (He was one of my good friends at work.)

I'm not actually that worried about it not working out between the two of us (knock on wood) as I've worked for him as a consultant for 9 years. He knows me, and I know him. The beauty for him is that I am already part of his organization. I know it inside and out (obviously). There will be no time spent training, or getting to know, or figuring out. (That's a huge bennefit for him.) Other than setting up an office in Toronto, I hit the ground running. Neither is there any recruitment cost for him (which can be substantial).

The risk is complete failure of the company due to the economy in which case, there will be no severence because there will be none to be had. I will do my damndest to ensure that that does not happen. He runs a good company. In my line of work I've seen several companies like his and his is without a doubt one of the best run, and most professional. He's grown from a company of 1 (him) to a company of 50. His problem is that he's working himself into the ground because other than me, he's not got anyone to help him out.

Where I work now I am secure because I am working for several clients. If any of them slow down, or close, it doesn't really impact me because there are other clients to take up the gap. Unless there is a complete failure of the Canadian economy my current employer is not going to close shop.

 

[james t kirk]

I agree with Ref, good call. It sounds like you are already comfortable financially and have security. Go for this job , it will fill your need to belong and be a part of of something rather than the guy on the outside looking in.Likely this would be the "big score" most of us only wish we could get in our careers. If you hang in 10 years or more then its freedom 55 for you pal.

Oh, I have financial comittments like everyone else. I'm the typical middle class dude who worries about failure and worries about paying the bills.

But I agree, I am looking forward to feeling like I am more a part of something. In a huge corporation of 40,000, I am a speck of lint.

As far as Freedom 55, bah, I don't see myself retiring. At least not completely. Work gives you focus and keeps your mind sharp. Sure there will come a day (knock on wood), however, I don't dream about retirement.

What I'd like is to have more time off. I'd like a job where I could keep working but not work 50-60 hour weeks. A client of mine recently stated that what he'd like to do is work 8 months of the year full time, then take 4 months off and do what he wants.

To me, that makes complete sense. You've got cash coming in, you stay involved, then you take a nice vacation and clear your head. Workiing 3 or 4 days a week, you end up just working full time anyway till you can't swing it at all anymore.

 

[capncrunch]

I'd like a job where I could keep working but not work 50-60 hour weeks. A client of mine recently stated that what he'd like to do is work 8 months of the year full time, then take 4 months off and do what he wants.

This is doable.

Read Tim Ferriss' The Four Hour Workweek and pay particular attention to the chapters on outsourcing. In plenty of cases, administrivia can take up to 70% of one's job. Essentially, the concept is to out-source all the administrivia that you're burdened with.

Also, consider a Results-Only-Work-Environment (ROWE).

Many organizations pay lip service to things like life/work balance, but when it actually comes down to it, employees are simply considered cogs in a machine. I don't know where you work or the culture of your employment, but if you can make a business case for an ROWE-style workplace, everyone will be better off.

But read the book first.

 

[Esco!]

If you do quit your present job make sure you leave on good terms, that way you can always come back. Never, ever burn your bridges!

Instead of a 2 week notice offer them 4 weeks

 

[capncrunch]

If you do quit your present job make sure you leave on good terms, that way you can always come back. Never, ever burn your bridges!

Instead of a 2 week notice offer them 4 weeks

Good ideas, certainly, especially in the context of getting a good recommendation. But don't be deluded that even if you leave on good terms, offer them extra notice and all the rest that you'd be welcomed back if the situation arises.

If an employee leaves once, they're likely to leave again.

There's no such thing as loyalty anymore. That was all flushed down the shitter in the layoff-happy 1990s when organizations would lay off both top performers and deadwood just so they could get a short-term boost in stock price (Chainsaw Al Dunlap was the poster boy for this).

 

[peter4]

working for his company for only 5 years and you earn 10% ownership! impressive.

anyways, i've been the 'other' party in this circumstance- i 'stole' an engineer this way from a large robotics firm. I'm no longer an owner of the company and he's now VP and makes about $800k per year-as well as being part of the ownership that bought me out. I think he made about $100k at his previous firm- I paid him $160k/yr.

he had the same issues with security... but, we were a growing business (profit 50) and we were in a growing market (automotive) at the time. the economy has flipped somewhat and 2010 looks to be shaping up to be worse than 2008 with possible dollar collapse and food riots on the horizon... perhaps neither job will be secure. I really don't know.

Can you do 1/2 and 1/2 ... ie, make an arrangement with your boss to lighten your workload at your current place and devote enough to fulfill this other guys needs?

21Pro - what kind of advice is that ???? 1/2 and 1/2 !?!?! Then each employer ends up with a 1/2 assed employee!!!

 

[CapitalGuy]

Looking for a Career Change?

Great job stability...the travel might not be what you're looking for, mind you.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/v3/engraph/home/home.aspx?bhcp=1