Car quality list

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danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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The german Auto Bild's car quality review:

Meget god = very good, Middelgod = average, svag = poor.

1. Mazda 2,14 Meget god
2. Toyota 2,29 Meget god
3. Honda 2,43 Meget god
4. Suzuki 2,67 Middelgod
5. Nissan 2,71 Middelgod
6. Chevrolet 2,75 Middelgod
7. Audi 2,83 Middelgod
7. Mercedes 2,83 Middelgod
7. Mitusbishi 2,83 Middelgod
7. Volvo 2,83 Middelgod
11. Hyundai 2,86 Middelgod
11. Opel 2,86 Middelgod
11. Skoda 2,86 Middelgod
11. Smart 2,86 Middelgod
15. BMW 3 Middelgod
16. VW 3,29 Middelgod
17. Citroën 3,33 Middelgod
17. Seat 3,33 Middelgod
19. Ford 3,42 Middelgod
20. Kia 3,67 Svag
21. Alfa Romeo 3,83 Svag
22. Renault 3,86 Svag
23. Fiat 4 Svag
23. Peugeot 4 Svag

http://fpn.dk/article71970.ece
 
Isn't that somewhat over generalized. Even within each vendor there are good and bad.
 
Peugot,Fiat,Renault,Alfa Romeo, Citroen - how have these companies stayed in business this long producing absolute garbage compared to the competition?
 
French market is the only one where local manufacturers take more than 60% of the market.
Besides they don't pay taxes for health coverage so it makes them more "competitive".

Fiat is almost the same but in Italy.
 
K Douglas said:
Peugot,Fiat,Renault,Alfa Romeo, Citroen - how have these companies stayed in business this long producing absolute garbage compared to the competition?
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The French support their own products, ie. jobs. What a concept. So what if your radio fails after 200k, you still have a good paying job to go back to in the morning.
 
K Douglas said:
Peugot,Fiat,Renault,Alfa Romeo, Citroen - how have these companies stayed in business this long producing absolute garbage compared to the competition?
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By making small, diesel powered, fuel efficient cars with good handling.
 
i recently saw a list from consumer reports saying mercedes was the most unreliable car.
toyota topped the list with honda 2nd.
hyundai was 7th
 
Interesting....

Auto Bild's list has similar ratings to Consumer Report's list (excluding Euro/NA only marques of course). It's interesting to see Mazda at #1 and Ford near the bottom at #19 since Ford owns +30% of Mazda. One would think Ford learned something from their investment. Regarding Peugeot, Alfa, Fiat, Seat, etc., they're great driving cars (I've driven many of these in Europe) but are lacking in reliability compared to the Japanese cars. I've got family and friends in Europe who have owned similar class Japanese and Euro brand cars and they all say the Japanese cars are just less problematic over the course of the vehicle's life.

It's also interesting to note that many of the Japanese cars in Europe and North America are actually conceptualized, designed and manufactured locally in their respective regions but better their domestic brand competitors in many performance and reliability criterias. For example in NA, the Japanese brand cars use many parts from the same suppliers as the Big Three (ie. Magna, Delphi, etc) and are built by people from the same region (Toyota in Cambridge, Honda in Alliston, Ford in Oakville, GM in Oshawa, Chrysler in Windsor, etc), yet the Japanese brands are much better in quality and reliability? What is it that the Japanese companies are doing right?

BTW, I currently own a Honda and a Ford of similar price and class but the Ford has been a headache with mechanical and electrical problems whereas the Honda have been problem-free.....
 
There is a big issue with luxury brands: who is going to admit that he paid so much for a car that brokes down so often?
 
For one thing the management is different. I have worked for both Japanese and North American manufactures. All I can say is that the N/A companies suck ass big time. They are on a pwr trip, telling you what to do, even if its wrong you have to do it wrong or else you are in deep shit. Thats how it goes here in N/A with DOG+CAT+SKUNK shit for brains bosses & engineers!!!!!!!
The Japanese companies listen to their employees on how to make the parts. Everyone works together to make a quality part. You are actually forced to contribute ideas on how to make improvements. And why not, after all you are the one making the part anyway so why not ask you!! They also fix problems quicker and make changes before things can get out of control (staying ahead of the game). Overall they are always trying to improve something, and they upgrade their equipment also, unlike N/A companies, they just want to save money so that the big bosses can get bigger bonuses or some crap like that.
 
danmand said:
By making small, diesel powered, fuel efficient cars with good handling.
Click to expand...
That all means squat if it doesn't start in the morning.
The Japanese make small fuel efficient cars too.
The only reason these co's are still in business is gov't bailouts, protectionism and ignorance.
 
My Opinion

Best Subcompact
Kia Rio (tie)
Suzuki Aerio (tie)
Scion xA

Best Compact
Toyota Corolla
Hyundai Elantra

Honda Civic

Best Compact Sport
Mazda MX-5

Hyundai Tiburon

Scion tC

Best Luxury Compact Sport
Porsche Cayman S

Honda S2000

Porsche Boxster

Best Luxury Sport Lexus SC 430

Chevrolet Corvette (tie)

Mercedes-Benz SL-Class (tie)

Best Entry Luxury Lexus IS 250/IS 350
Lincoln Zephyr
Acura TL

Best Luxury Midsize
Lexus ES 330
Infiniti M35/M45 (tie)
Jaguar S-Type (tie)

Best Full-Size Luxury
lexus LS 430
Audi A8
BMW 750/760

Best Midsize Sport
Toyota Camry Solara
Ford Mustang
Chevrolet Monte Carlo

Best Midsize
Toyota Camry
Honda Accord
Hyundai Sonata

Best Full-Size
Pontiac Grand Prix
Hyundai Azera
Nissan Maxima
 
K Douglas said:
The only reason these co's are still in business is gov't bailouts, protectionism and ignorance.
Click to expand...

Ignorance All Right, all these stupid europeans don't know that they need a big gas guzzling SUV.
 
Engine Failures Found in New Toyota Tundra Truck
Chris Woodyard USA Today

Toyota said Tuesday that it has found in its much-hyped new Tundra pickups a defect that caused the engines to fail. Toyota has reports of camshafts breaking in the 5.7-liter V-8 engines of about 20 Tundras so far. All of the engines are being replaced.

A Toyota spokesman said he doesn’t know how many engines were made and installed before the flaw was detected. It was fixed at a subcontractor’s factory in February, the same month Tundra was launched amid a $100 million ad blitz.

The issue amounts to an embarrassment for Toyota. Tundra is one of the automaker’s most important launches in years. “I’m sure there are people agonizing over this in Toyota,” said Jeffrey Liker, a University of Michigan professor.
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Mark Rechtin
Automotive News

LOS ANGELES -- A batch of camshaft failures in 5.7-liter V-8 engines has dinged the launch of the Toyota Tundra pickup.

Camshafts in 20 engines have snapped, says Toyota spokesman Mike Michels. The outside camshaft supplier, which Toyota declined to identify, has traced the problem to "a metallurgical defect in the casting, a flaw in the metal which they have corrected," he says....

A camshaft is a spinning rod that opens the engine's intake and exhaust valves in sequence. Toyota's camshafts are designed to avoid collateral damage if they snap.

Toyota rushed the 5.7-liter engine into production in time for the Tundra's February launch. The 5.7-liter initially was scheduled to arrive this summer. But Toyota dealers and product planners told the manufacturing arm that the Tundra needed the big V-8 at launch because the 4.7-liter V-8 would not make a strong enough statement.

The 5.7-liter represents more than 70 percent of the engine mix.

Toyota's top executives repeatedly have stated their concern that Toyota is growing too quickly to keep quality at past high levels...
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A useful reminder that they're not superhuman. Don't remember seeing anything about this in the Canadian press since it came out over two weeks ago.

Hopefully this is not a sign of Toyota abandoning their slow and evolutionary to product upgrades and giving in to the trend of rushing things to the showroom just to make waves.
 
danmand said:
Ignorance All Right, all these stupid europeans don't know that they need a big gas guzzling SUV.
Click to expand...
So we North Americans are ignorant because we purchase SUV's? Have another latte and croissant.
 
K Douglas said:
So we North Americans are ignorant because we purchase SUV's? Have another latte and croissant.
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He's Danish. Its all about Nescafe and Autriche Brot. LOL :)

Oh yeah, and Tuborg, and Carlsberg, and Legoland, and mermaids, and free bike sharing, and leaving your baby outside in his carriage while you go shopping, and wild game, and Tivoli, and walking,talking Barbie dolls in spandex or tight jeans who knock your socks off when saturated with Tuborg of Carlsberg. Danmand, why the hell did you move to Canada anyhow?
 
CapitalGuy said:
He's Danish. Its all about Nescafe and Autriche Brot. LOL

Oh yeah, and Tuborg, and Carlsberg, and Legoland, and mermaids, and free bike sharing, and leaving your baby outside in his carriage while you go shopping, and wild game, and Tivoli, and walking,talking Barbie dolls in spandex or tight jeans who knock your socks off when saturated with Tuborg of Carlsberg. Danmand, why the hell did you move to Canada anyhow?
Click to expand...
Ignorance I suppose :confused:
 
Mercedes(as well as BMWS) over the last several years have poor reliability problems.Audis are like French cars in that they are interesting ,but plagued with problems.
 
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