Canada's Judges are Revolting

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Several judges across are going against the Conservative programs of minimum sentences and victim surcharges. They are getting creative with their judgements and sentencing. I herds sometime ago this was going to happen and I love it.These non elected judge have shown their metal and shown that they aren't beholding to anyone.

Judges defy order to impose Tories’ victim-services surcharge

Judges in several provinces are rebelling against the Conservative government’s attempt to make all convicted criminals pay a surcharge to fund victim services.
The mandatory charge is a new flashpoint between the judiciary and the federal government. Two years ago, an Ontario Court judge opposed to The Truth in Sentencing Act – which ended two-for-one credit for pretrial detention – called on other judges to give shorter sentences to make up for harsh jailhouse conditions.

The victim-services fine has sparked another backlash in the judiciary, now that judges can no longer waive the “victim fine surcharge” of up to $200 for impoverished offenders.

In Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta, judges have either refused to order criminals to pay or have found creative ways around ordering the mandatory surcharge, such as giving an offender decades – even 99 years – to pay. Ontario Court Judge Stephen Hunter of Ottawa even ruled that the mandatory surcharge is unconstitutional, without being asked to do so by the defence. The Crown is appealing that ruling.

There are no hard numbers on how many judges are refusing to apply the new law, which requires either a 30-per-cent surcharge on any fine levied, or if no fine is set, a flat fee of $100 or $200, depending on the seriousness of the offence.

Ontario’s Ministry of the Attorney-General said it does not track victim-fine surcharges, and Associate Chief Justice Lise Maisonneuve of the Ontario Court would not provide an estimate.

But lawyers in several jurisdictions say the opposition is widespread.

In Kitchener, Ontario Court Justice Colin Westman is issuing $1 fines, resulting in a 30-cent surcharge, to any impoverished offender.

In an interview, he denounced the mandatory surcharge as a tax on “broken souls.”

“Can you imagine being a person who’s got mental illness, who lives under the local underpass, at the hospital or on a park bench, who eats at the soup kitchen, and you’re going to have them pay $100 because they had their day in court?” he asked.

He wondered if a “special federal force” will venture under bridges to collect the debts.

“If you sat in a typical provincial courtroom and saw all the broken souls coming before us that came from non-existent homes, you could understand the problem,” he said.

Asked what right he has as a judge to skirt the law, he said, “We don’t have a right – that’s the problem.

“They took it away from us. They pay us one-quarter of a million dollars a year and they don’t trust us to assess a surcharge on those who can afford it.”

A justice department backgrounder says the law, titled the Increasing Offenders’ Accountability for Victims Act, will “ensure that the victim surcharge is applied in all cases without exception,” except where programs exist that allow offenders to do community service instead. The law took effect Oct. 24.

Paloma Aguilar, press secretary to Justice Minister Peter MacKay, stood behind the extra financial penalty, saying the government is committed to giving victims of crime a stronger voice, and the surcharge will fund much-needed victims services.

Paul Lewandowski, an Ottawa criminal lawyer, represented a drug-addicted refugee claimant from Sierra Leone who pleaded guilty to stealing $9 of chocolate bars to resell, and who was sentenced to a little more than a week in jail.

Mr. Lewandowski said that while judges must apply Parliament’s laws, they need to ensure that a sentence is just and in proportion to the crime.

He called the mandatory nature of the fine “a giant placebo to placate victims’ rights groups.”

Anthony Moustacalis, president of the Ontario-based Criminal Lawyers Association, said that 55 per cent of accused offenders receive legal aid, and that the requirement for legal aid is annual earnings under $10,800, and a possible jail sentence.

A Toronto judge allowed an offender 99 years to pay, he said. An Alberta judge gave an offender no time to pay, sentenced that offender to a day in jail for defaulting, but made that jail time overlap with the time he was already serving.

In British Columbia, judges are allowing 10, 11 or even 50 years to pay the fine, Vancouver lawyer Eric Gottardi said.

“It certainly shows the level of frustration the judges have,” he said.

“It’s dangerous because this is the kind of thing the Conservatives have used to justify taking discretion out of the hands of judges.”





 

Keebler Elf

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As much as I sympathize with wanting to punish criminals (vs. rehabilitate them) and minimum sentences, I think there's ample experience in the US that shows minimum sentences don't work and in fact fill your prisons with people that probably shouldn't be there (at least for the duration they sometimes get).

I would rather have a judge making a determination on a case by case basis.
 

fmahovalich

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Aug 21, 2009
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The victims are often overlooked and ignored. This is one way they get direct payback!

Otherwise, a fine simply disappears into a huge gravy pot.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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The victims are often overlooked and ignored. This is one way they get direct payback!

Otherwise, a fine simply disappears into a huge gravy pot.
One point to remember is that the money goes into a fund, but it doesn't go to the victims directly. It is often not being used as expected though. One judge commented that he was a judge residing over a court of law, not a tax collector.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/cj-jp/victim/restit-dedom/index.html

Restitution Orders
Victim Surcharge, Restitution Orders and Compensation
An offender who is sentenced for an offence under the Criminal Code or Controlled Drugs and Substances Act is required to pay a fee called a victim surcharge. This money does not go directly to the victim — it is placed in a special fund in the province or territory. The fund, sometimes called the Victim Assistance Fund, is used to provide services and assistance to victims of crime in general.

The offender’s sentence may also include a restitution order. A restitution order requires the offender to pay an amount directly to the victim of the offence to cover the victim’s monetary losses caused by bodily or psychological harm or damage to property caused by the crime.

Compensation generally refers to money a victim may receive from a provincial or territorial victim compensation program.

What is the purpose of a restitution order?
The Criminal Code states that the purposes and principles of sentencing are to:

provide reparations for harm done to victims or to the community, and
promote a sense of responsibility in offenders, and acknowledgment of the harm done to victims and the community.
Restitution orders, which help cover the victim’s monetary losses due to bodily or psychological harm or damage to property caused by the crime, follow these principles.

Sometimes restitution is ordered as a condition of probation or a conditional sentence.

How is restitution calculated?
Restitution amounts must be easy to calculate and not in great dispute. For example, two weeks’ lost wages due to injuries caused by an assault could be demonstrated with pay stubs and absence forms (from work), and the replacement costs for goods stolen or vandalized could be demonstrated with store receipts or estimates for the replacement of the items.

Is restitution given to all victims?
No, restitution must be an appropriate sentence based on all the circumstances.

Restitution will not be ordered in all cases where there is monetary loss or damages. The judge must consider whether a restitution order should be included in the sentence and whether all aspects of the sentence reflect the purposes and principles of sentencing and are appropriate given the circumstances of the offence and the particular offender. The ability of the offender to pay a restitution order will be a consideration.

Restitution cannot be ordered for pain and suffering or other damages that can only be assessed in the civil courts.

When can the victim or Crown prosecutor ask for restitution?
The victim or the Crown prosecutor may ask for a restitution order at the time of sentencing the offender; as well, the sentencing judge can consider a restitution order without any specific request.

How is the restitution order paid?
Where a restitution order is made, the offender must pay the amount ordered directly to the victim named in the order.

Although the restitution order is made by a criminal court as part of an offender’s sentence, it is similar to a civil order in some aspects. If the offender does not pay the amount ordered, the victim can file the order in the civil court and use civil enforcement methods to collect the money. For example, bank accounts may be seized or liens placed on property. Some legal information or advice may be needed to pursue these methods of collection.
 

spankingman

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Dec 7, 2008
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I received a payout from Victim Services back in 2003. Considering the HELL I went through at the hands of my abuser
It did help somewhat. I was able to get more therapy.

Are the payouts enough? I don't know.How do you put a price tag on crime?
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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I received a payout from Victim Services back in 2003. Considering the HELL I went through at the hands of my abuser
It did help somewhat. I was able to get more therapy.

Are the payouts enough? I don't know.How do you put a price tag on crime?
You were one of the lucky ones. Some of the money goes to things like paint for shelters, posters in schools or advertising for the government of Canada, read the CPOC.
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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That is why we have the Court of Appeal.

In any event notwithstanding its name it is simply a hidden tax of offenders. Judges have always had the jurisdiction to make restitutionary orders which benefit the victims. The Surtax does not benefit the victim in respect of which it is charges and it is also applied to administrative offenses where there is no victim per se.
 

rld

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Oct 12, 2010
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That is why we have the Court of Appeal.

In any event notwithstanding its name it is simply a hidden tax of offenders. Judges have always had the jurisdiction to make restitutionary orders which benefit the victims. The Surtax does not benefit the victim in respect of which it is charges and it is also applied to administrative offenses where there is no victim per se.
We have had Victim Fine Surcharges in HTA court in Ontario forever, and I don't remember any outcry at all.

And even if it is a tax...who cares...last time I checked the federal government was empowered to levy taxes.

I am not a big fan of Victim Fine Surcharges in criminal cases, but I am less of a fan of judges legislating from the bench. While it may give people like CM a woody, it does undermine the whole separation of powers that makes our country what it is.
 

MRBJX

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2013
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We have had Victim Fine Surcharges in HTA court in Ontario forever, and I don't remember any outcry at all.

And even if it is a tax...who cares...last time I checked the federal government was empowered to levy taxes.

I am not a big fan of Victim Fine Surcharges in criminal cases, but I am less of a fan of judges legislating from the bench. While it may give people like CM a woody, it does undermine the whole separation of powers that makes our country what it is.
mandatory sentences and forced imposition of any surcharge also undermines the separation of power and allows moron legistators such as harper to over-ride judges.
 

Zook

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as much as I hate the idea that non elected should over turn the elected, things are getting to the point that we need some leadership to stand up and correct the nonsense that is happening in Canada.

I have no idea what to do. THere are plenty of idiots prepared to support the nonsense. Logic is beyond them. Math and science is but a dream to them.

Walk quietly but carry a big stick.
 

blackrock13

Banned
Jun 6, 2009
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We have had Victim Fine Surcharges in HTA court in Ontario forever, and I don't remember any outcry at all.

And even if it is a tax...who cares...last time I checked the federal government was empowered to levy taxes.

I am not a big fan of Victim Fine Surcharges in criminal cases, but I am less of a fan of judges legislating from the bench. While it may give people like CM a woody, it does undermine the whole separation of powers that makes our country what it is.

Yet Harper want them to do just that when it to his benefit. He can't have it both ways.
 

rld

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mandatory sentences and forced imposition of any surcharge also undermines the separation of power and allows moron legistators such as harper to over-ride judges.
I don't think you understand how the separation of powers works. With the exception of things that are ultra vires or unconstitutional, legislators get to override judges.
 

rld

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Yet Harper want them to do just that when it to his benefit. He can't have it both ways.
Politicians say all sorts of stupid things. That I am used to.

When judges start engaging in what is more or less civil disobedience of that nature. We have a problem.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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Politicians say all sorts of stupid things. That I am used to.

When judges start engaging in what is more or less civil disobedience of that nature. We have a problem.
From some of the examples I've heard of, it doesn't sound like disobedience. The law says they have to fine a homeless man.:confused: Stupid law. So they fine him and give him 99 years to pay. They followed the law. Likewise they fine a guy and he can't pay, they find him in contempt and throw him in jail but credits him of time serve, law is followed. The law has holes big enough to drive trucks through and the bench is doing just that. Manditory minimum sentences doesn't work as a strict rule.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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This stuff makes me proud of our judges. I have a much higher trust in our judges who know the particulars of each case to make the right decision then some politician that is just trying to pander to the idiotic masses.
 

blackrock13

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This stuff makes me proud of our judges. I have a much higher trust in our judges who know the particulars of each case to make the right decision then some politician that is just trying to pander to the idiotic masses.
Really, yet you saying in another thread that this judge gave someone a pass based on the colour of his skin;

In his decision, retired judge Walter Gonet — who was independently appointed by Chief Bill Blair to oversee the G20 tribunals — found Wong guilty of unlawfully arresting 27-year-old graphic designer Jason Wall. Gonet also cleared Wong’s then-partner, Const. Blair Begbie, of the same charge.
You really are a piece of work.
 

MRBJX

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2013
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I don't think you understand how the separation of powers works. With the exception of things that are ultra vires or unconstitutional, legislators get to override judges.
To be clearer, and to my mind, Judges interpret the law (as unfortunately legislated by the worlds best liars - politicians and their ilk).
Forcing them by legislation to have no room for interpretation and mandating minimum sentences and fines is a slap in the face to Judges, If I had the time to debate it I'd say it was unconstitutional too.

The problem is - the average Canadian doesn't care and hence doesn't know what happens to a "criminial" until they themselves are charged, neither do legislators. Judges do, and now they are being pushed into being rubber stamping mindless fools....they have my support in rebellion. The law is broken, not the Judges, when it fails BOTH victims and criminals.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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Really, yet you saying in another thread that this judge gave someone a pass based on the colour of his skin;



You really are a piece of work.
So what, not all judges are bad . Same with cops. This is an example good judges IMHO. My criticism of the cops and judge in that article are to do with the appalling culture that exists at the TPA.
 

afterhours

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This stuff makes me proud of our judges. I have a much higher trust in our judges who know the particulars of each case to make the right decision then some politician that is just trying to pander to the idiotic masses.
+100
 
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