Canada loses prestige UN spot due to conservative Government foreign policies

[blackrock13]

Harper is the worst PM in Canadian history. Luckily he will soon be history.

........ and another hyperbole from EB hits the fan.

Of course you've carefully studied the successes and failures of John Turner Kim Campbell, John Abbott, Sir MacKenzie Bowell and last but not least, the well known Sir Charles Tupper. Wha? A couple of them were around long enough to take the rope from around his neck or the knife out of her back. The others, you probably didn't known squat about them or their tenure, but feel free to tell us how you feel.

 

[Aardvark154]

It sounds a bit like Postmedia News is saying Canada shouldn’t have any principles when having them could cost you a seat on the Security Council.

 

[nottyboi]

Exactly.

But then again, we are more alike the Americans than we are not.

If the Americans were Bud Beer, we would be Bud Lite...

 

[nottyboi]

I guess when you Isreal is 100% right and the Arabs are 100% wrong you get one new friend that you had anyway and lose about 28 Arab and Muslim nations. You crap on Kyoto, support war in Afganistan, support the government of Columbia with free trade and guess what? You are out of friends. How does that happen?

I have no problem with supporting the govt of Colombia. But I do agree on the Israeli side. By being 100% supportive of Israel we have gained 7 million Israeli friends and lost 1B muslims

 

[blackrock13]

I have no problem with supporting the govt of Colombia. But I do agree on the Israeli side. By being 100% supportive of Israel we have gained 7 million Israeli friends and lost 1B muslims

But sandflea, are you tell us that every single muslim in the world is against Israel? Please tell us how you came to know this insight. I know for a fact this is the case.

 

[train]

To make it even more amusing is how Larry Cannon (our wonderfully thoughtful Foreign Minister) couldn't accept the blame for this failure but instead, in front of the foreign press blamed this loss on the Liberal Opposition Leader

kf1

You are right that is kind of amusing. Heck Canadians don't even listen to Iggy much less anyone outside the country.

Portugal won a popularity contest because Brazil campaigned on their behalf with a lot of Arab countries.

Originally Posted by euripides
Harper's plan for a far right-wing Canada is finally being exposed by the rest of the world. Hopefully we Canadians can get our heads out of our asses and see wht is going on with the non-progressive Conservatives:

1) foreign policies;
2) human rights;3) women's rights;
4) environmental policies;
Lester Pearson would roll over in his grave. It is a huge embarrassment for Canada the responsibility for which rests solely in the hands of Harper.

This has to be the most amusing given how much the Arab nations care about women's rights. I think old LesterB might be turning over in his grave about what the UN has become

 

[Aardvark154]

I think old LesterB might be turning over in his grave about what the UN has become

Personally, I have no doubt at all.

 

[landscaper]

I have no problem with supporting the govt of Colombia. But I do agree on the Israeli side. By being 100% supportive of Israel we have gained 7 million Israeli friends and lost 1B muslims

Aside from the somewhat inaccurate numerical statement, there does come a time when standing up for a pronciple is actually a good thing. Isrea is the only democracy in the area has a free press , civil court system and civil rights for all its citizens both Arab and Semitic. Contrast that to any one of the Arab block countries with the possible exception of Morroco and there is absolutly no comparison. Should some of the Arab block countries make something resmbling progress on human rights for their own citizens and actually start assiting the Palistinians instead of using them for photo ops on how oppressive the Isreali regime is then I would be more than happy to consider them in the same light as western countries. Untgil then yes ISreal deserves all the support that we can provide.

 

[mexican]

I think that it would have been very difficult for Canada to have won the vote regardless of the comments of Ignatieff or the policies of Harper. In fact I think that we would likely have lost the vote if the Liberals were in power. Europeans are going to vote for themselves - both the Liberals and the Tories supported the war - Kyoto would have crippled our economy - and the Liberals support Israel as well (though not to the extent of Harper at this point) - and Canada has less and less influence in Africa as China and others are increasing their presence there.

The Conservatives have made strides in relations with the US, India, Latin America and recently China - and have attempted to do a free trade deal with Europe. These are the countries we need to get along with for our future. Perhaps the UN is not a joke - but it is increasingly losing its importance as a credible international body.

 

[Huron]

Personally, I have no doubt at all.

I suspect he spun completely out of his grave after Rwanda.

 

[nottyboi]

But sandflea, are you tell us that every single muslim in the world is against Israel? Please tell us how you came to know this insight. I know for a fact this is the case.

I don't, I assumed at least 2-300 milllion don't even know what Israel is...about 2-300M don't care.. and 1B have a genuine hate on....

 

[nottyboi]

Aside from the somewhat inaccurate numerical statement, there does come a time when standing up for a pronciple is actually a good thing. Isrea is the only democracy in the area has a free press , civil court system and civil rights for all its citizens both Arab and Semitic. Contrast that to any one of the Arab block countries with the possible exception of Morroco and there is absolutly no comparison. Should some of the Arab block countries make something resmbling progress on human rights for their own citizens and actually start assiting the Palistinians instead of using them for photo ops on how oppressive the Isreali regime is then I would be more than happy to consider them in the same light as western countries. Untgil then yes ISreal deserves all the support that we can provide.

How much assistance has Israel provided to the Palestinians? Seeing many of them are displaced Israelis. If we support Isreali, policies we support genocide and apartheid. It is really that simple. China is not a democracy...why do we not make a stand for principals there? Iran has a Jewish population, they get to vote, they have a govt. Representative... Iran was democratic...unitil the CIA deposed their leader and installed the Shah... and yes the Palestinians also held a DEMOCRATIC election... but they didn't vote for for Fatah!!! HOW UNFORTUNATE!!! lol. Lets face it, it is just we are just Imperialists. Why don't WE do more to help the Palis instead of asking much poorer countries to do so?

 

[blackrock13]

I don't, I assumed at least 2-300 milllion don't even know what Israel is...about 2-300M don't care.. and 1B have a genuine hate on....

Then I bow to you obviously deeper insight into the global muslim psyche. Please tell us more, especially about the ongoing hatred of between the Shi'a, the Suuni, the Sufi's and finally Ahmadiyya. just four off the top of maybe 70+ sects. The Islamic world has it own troubles inside, but according to you they all(66%)hate Israel. I put to you it's probably a lot less than that. Scholars of this, who know far more about this than I, could put more light on this train of thought, but I can only draw from my own contacts in the muslim world, perhaps in a half a dozen countries on 4 continents and find they're more concerned with every day personal problems than with the snake pit of the middle east. It's just that the loudmouth nutbars who have a visceral need to hate someone that make it appear so.

 

[landscaper]

How much assistance has Israel provided to the Palestinians? Seeing many of them are displaced Israelis. If we support Isreali, policies we support genocide and apartheid. It is really that simple. China is not a democracy...why do we not make a stand for principals there? Iran has a Jewish population, they get to vote, they have a govt. Representative... Iran was democratic...unitil the CIA deposed their leader and installed the Shah... and yes the Palestinians also held a DEMOCRATIC election... but they didn't vote for for Fatah!!! HOW UNFORTUNATE!!! lol. Lets face it, it is just we are just Imperialists. Why don't WE do more to help the Palis instead of asking much poorer countries to do so?

If we support Isreali, policies we support genocide and apartheid. It is really that simple.

Perhaps it is that simple for you, you are however wrong. There is no genocide involved in the Palistinian situation , if there was there would be no Palistinians left by this point. Aparthied? South Africa had aparthied and it was a definte split between the whites and the rest. The PAlistinian situation is nothing like that. Arab Isrealis hae full rights in ISreal. The PAlistinians do not have any Isreali rights why would they , They are not Isrealis. Any rights they seek shopuld be collected through there own governments.

China is not a democracy...why do we not make a stand for principals there?

I seem to recall screaming and shoutiong from the opposition benches when our government called the Chinese government over human rights breeeches a few years back, apparantly according tot he liberals and the ndp the world was ending because the PM took a stand and stated that the chinese human rights abuses were not in line with civilized countries, the chinese were not amused, they were also not ammused when the govt accorded the Dali Lhama Canadian citizenship, apparantly they got their noses out of joint becasue he is a criminal from Tibet...

and yes the Palestinians also held a DEMOCRATIC election... but they didn't vote for for Fatah!!!

This would be the election international observers had serious doubts about fraud and voter intimidation???


Iran was democratic...unitil the CIA deposed their leader and installed the Shah...

Which dynasty are you refering to?
Qajar dynasty (1796–1925)
Pahlavi era (1925-1979)
Khomeini era(1979-1989)

I have to asume from your post that you are refering to the Pahlavi dynasty, that started in 1925 and was restored in 1951 or there abouts, the constitutional monarchy was a democracy the same way the Soviet Union was a democracy everybody voted for the people they were told to vote for.

The idea tha Canadians are Imperialists would be funny if it was nor so assinine. The Palistinian situation will not be resolved until the Arab block countries agree that Isreal has a right to exist and sign peace treaties. As to why we don't do more? What would you suggest, more money ? most of the aid money goes anywhere but to aid . Until the peace process finishes the Palistinians have two choices 1) live with it 2) change their government to something that actively , and actually seeks peace . The ISrealis are always willing to talk , and they keep any treaties they sign

 

[Cassini]

It is true that not all hate Israel, because all implies everyone.

Al Qaeda united many radical Arab groups by focusing their hatred against the U.S. and Israel, which represented a common enemy. Al Qaeda has also demonstrated considerable skill in creating news.

Additionally, in many Muslim countries, the governments tolerate and sometimes encourage protests against the U.S. and Israel, while simultaneously crushing any internal anti-government unrest. The local press and newscasts often encourage the government sponsored viewpoint.

It is surprisingly easy to influence the thinking of large populations of people when both the governments with press and guns and the radicals with press and guns, are anti-American and anti-Israel.

 

[landscaper]

The European union decided they neded an aditional seat for some reason , they are over represented at present with the UK,France,Germany and Portugal holding seats. The USA also has a hand in this for some reason they did not campign on our behalf this time and I would be interested to know why, although unless there is a leak we will never know . the votes are "secret"

 

[basketcase]

... especially against a debt laden, basket-case Country like Portugal ...

Hey, I'm not Portuguese (though some of their women are hot).


p.s. I love how the usuals have made this yet another thread about blaming Israel.

 

[nottyboi]

Then I bow to you obviously deeper insight into the global muslim psyche. Please tell us more, especially about the ongoing hatred of between the Shi'a, the Suuni, the Sufi's and finally Ahmadiyya. just four off the top of maybe 70+ sects. The Islamic world has it own troubles inside, but according to you they all(66%)hate Israel. I put to you it's probably a lot less than that. Scholars of this, who know far more about this than I, could put more light on this train of thought, but I can only draw from my own contacts in the muslim world, perhaps in a half a dozen countries on 4 continents and find they're more concerned with every day personal problems than with the snake pit of the middle east. It's just that the loudmouth nutbars who have a visceral need to hate someone that make it appear so.

So lets do the math... Pakistan - dislike Israel, Indonesia (Dislike Israel), Malaysia (dislike Israel) arabs (all dislike Israel) Iran...need we ask... so where is this mythical Israel loving musilm population you speak off? Bosnia? (at best indiffernt) Turkey? Well they USED to be friends lol... Morocco? Nah...please do tell. yes most people ARE concerned with everyday problems, even in Iran and probably in Gaza they worry more about food then killing jews... but they mostly have an unfavorable opinion of Israel....

 

[nottyboi]

Good opinion piece in the Star that echos some of my opinions by Thomas Walkom:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-i-m-right-you-re-wrong-approach-to-the-world

 

[mexican]

It would appear that the real issue of the UN Security rejection is the relations between Harper's government and the Obama administration. If the US wanted Canada on the Security Council we would be there. They did nothing on our behalf. As well, the UAE would not dare kick out the Canadian forces from Camp Mirage without the compliance of the US.

In advance of the US election in November it appears that partisan politics in America are deadly serious. I believe the Conservatives links to the Republicans may be hurting them with the Obama administration. I know that seems a bit paranoid but the Democrats are going to face huge losses in both houses. Likely the White House is gone in the next go around unless something changes dramatically. The US behavior is consistent with Hilary Clinton's comments on her last trip to Canada that embarassed the Harper government at that time (e.g. woman's issues and abortion, natives at the table in Arctic negotiations etc.). Otherwise I cannot make sense of the US actions because Canada has backed the US on many of its initiatives (Haiti, Afghanistan, banking regulations etc.)


Overall I don't think Canada needs to kow tow to African and Muslim dictators to advance its position in the UN. If the UN rejects us then perhaps we should address our foreign initiatives elsewhere - like focusing on this hemisphere.