Call Centre progress ...no more calls to India or Pakistan!

[CapitalGuy]

CapitalGuy;

I hear what you are saying. However, at what cost do we keep the borders open? What I am saying is that they have to play by the same rules as we play, or we have to change to play by their rules. That means, both sides looking after the environment and respecting human dignity. When they do that, I am comfortable with the globalisation that you are talking about.

As it is right now, don't you see that the CEOs are effectively raping and plundering the developing countries? Who is getting rich in such countries as India and China? The more important question to answer is, how can we ensure that the Hindus and Muslims and others who deserve to partake in the fruits of their hard work will realise these fruits, or, at least, part of the riches that they have produced? On the other side of the coin, I agree that the Western world needs a kick in the butt to improve itsw productivity and equity, as well.

I'm with you on those counts. Its a tough nut to crack, and I sure as heck don't have the solutions to global ineqalities, corporate greed, and market inefficiencies. Probably why I'm not on the short list for President of the US right now.

I think the aim in the developing countries you mention is to create a middle class (of some sort), as this normally provides the basis for economic stability. There will be rich and poor, but if those countries can raise their standards to something approaching ours (or if we can lower our standards and meet them in the middle), I think we'll all be better off.

The problem I can't wrap my head around is that mother earth cannot sustain a population of 6 or 7 billion people, all living to North American/Western European standards.

 

[basketcase]

...
I think the aim in the developing countries you mention is to create a middle class (of some sort), as this normally provides the basis for economic stability. There will be rich and poor, but if those countries can raise their standards to something approaching ours (or if we can lower our standards and meet them in the middle), I think we'll all be better off.
...

India actually has a quickly developing middle class, complete with materialistic goals like ours. The outsourcing has also spawned a growth of Indian tech businesses. When it really comes down to it, one of India's biggest resources is a large educated population.

India is a success of Globalization, likely thanks to their government actually doing more with their money than lining their own pockets.

I can see that the growth of middle class aspirations in India will also result in them loosing many of the outsource industries that gave them a jump start as the cost benefits diminish. Companies like Bell may have decided that there are enough un/underemployed Canadians who will be will do the work for not much more than those in India instead of trying to find some new country with enough English speakers willing to work for peanuts. It would be good for their PR as well as making sure that there are more Canadian teens able to afford the newest cell phone gadgets.

 

[CapitalGuy]

Answer to problem 2: i'm not specifically talking call centers. When a guy is 45-50 and is laid off because the whole IT department was offshored to India by say someone like Sprint Nextel out of Kansas, MO...the whole local labor market just went to shit. Imagine if Rogers, Bell and Telus did that to save $$ and tell me what happens then?

You are correct that this scenario is devastating to the laid off employees. Like I said its cold hearted economics but the other option (not trading) is worse. The fact that Bell, Telus and Rogers are involved in global businesses mean they need more IT and other workers that they would if their entire operations were limited to Canada only. Close the borders, lose even more jobs.

The economic theory would say that in this case, a number of Indians would acquire additional disposable income that they could then spend on a product or service that the newly-unemployed Canadians would produce in their new jobs, and both trading partners win. In the real world, its upheaval for the unemployed Canadians, possibly some costly retraining, cross-country moves, divorces, etc. Not nearly so clean and tidy as the theory. But over the long term, the ex-IT workers would get jobs in a sector that needs workers, due to its success. This is why we have unemployment insurance and government-funded retraining schemes, to help through such transitions.

Again, protectionism is far worse than free trade. Let's keep hoping our American friends feel the same way.

 

[Tao]

Help desk for the IT divison of the Hudson Bay company is getting out sourced to India in October, instead of my friend who works there standing up looking over his partition and asking a question to the help desk, he has to call India

 

[Serpent]

You are correct that this scenario is devastating to the laid off employees. Like I said its cold hearted economics but the other option (not trading) is worse. The fact that Bell, Telus and Rogers are involved in global businesses mean they need more IT and other workers that they would if their entire operations were limited to Canada only. Close the borders, lose even more jobs.

The economic theory would say that in this case, a number of Indians would acquire additional disposable income that they could then spend on a product or service that the newly-unemployed Canadians would produce in their new jobs, and both trading partners win. In the real world, its upheaval for the unemployed Canadians, possibly some costly retraining, cross-country moves, divorces, etc. Not nearly so clean and tidy as the theory. But over the long term, the ex-IT workers would get jobs in a sector that needs workers, due to its success. This is why we have unemployment insurance and government-funded retraining schemes, to help through such transitions.

Again, protectionism is far worse than free trade. Let's keep hoping our American friends feel the same way.

There's more problems.

1. Canada/US lose in taxable revenues and have to dole out unemployment insurance.

2. Canada/US's "main street" (not Bay/Wall St.) economy suffers as people feel the pain of losing jobs.

If you follow the US economy, while Republicans/FNC were saying the economy was doing great, even back in 2006, people disagreed because they weren't secure in their jobs or their wages weren't growing fast enough.

Sure, it's good for India in the short term (cost arbitrage will catch up there too) and good for the stock holders and officers of the companies doing the outsourcing but the avg. joe has to take the brunt of it.

Btw...I'm glad you acknowledge the difference between economic theory and reality - a lot of people disregard that.

 

[Mencken]

I'm not picking on you Selina but I just have to say it's pretty fucking sad when someone thinks they are somehow being racist for wanting to keep jobs here in North America (Canada & The States I mean, fuck mexico).

I've been labeled as being racist by certain assholes here (probably imports themselves) for pointing out appalling human conditions and disgusting attitudes toward workers in countries such as china, india and all the like.

I don't blame those countries per say as much as I blame scum bag CEOs here and cooperate greed. The never ending ruthless quest to appease stockholder greed as well. How much profit is enough?

Just who do these suit geniuses sitting in their board rooms expect to buy their shit here if they keep sending the average Joe and Jane's jobs over to third world countries to exploit slave labour?

Look at the States and how their economies gone to shit. They call it the credit crunch. Maybe if they keep jobs in their own country instead of shipping them over to fucking china to put their citizens (aka customers) employed and make some money they could actually pay the mortgage and the credit cards off? Spend money and support the US economy. Simple huh? You don't need a degree in economics to figure that out.

Ya but prices will rise due to corporations increased labour costs asshole if products are built here again some of you are thinking.

That's just a scare tactic being drummed into your sheepish minds.

What? Some of these corporations will only make four hundred and and fifty mill a year instead of five? Ya I feel for them.

Anyway I hope everyone is enjoying this lovely day off...don't forget to thank our forefather Unionists who fought for it!

Happy Labour Day!!

No need to pick on any part of this post...enough to say it is people like this that have created the very problem he talks about. I would far sooner deal with someone in any third world country than this fine speciman of North American humanity.

 

[dajodo2]

No need to pick on any part of this post...enough to say it is people like this that have created the very problem he talks about. I would far sooner deal with someone in any third world country than this fine speciman of North American humanity.

I'll pay for the one way plane ticket to the third world country of your choice so you can deal with them 24/7 and live happily ever after hows that?!

I created the problem?-lol Fuck off dummy, come back and say something when you get a clue. You won't find a finer North American specimen of humanity than yours truly.

Something else I meant to say in my earlier post was how pathetic things have deteriorated that the economic globalization scam is even impacting the domestic sex industry as Selena touched upon.

Support our fine local domestic providers boys such as Selena & Biancablaze in this thread. Look at their pictures. They don't make 'em like that in Nicaragua for fifty bucks.

Just say no to a foreign ho!!! Support home grown talent!!

 

[emacs]

I personally know one Toronto call centre operator that disappeared last year, along with 87 jobs, when Bell cancelled his contract and moved them to india.

that's such a shame. hopefully the operator and the other people have gone onto better things.

 

[dajodo2]

This I think is great news. One, I will no longer have to talked to indians who speak an accented english that is incomprehensible

An experts testimony on that same topic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbwgW7-Q8AY&feature=related

 

[basketcase]

...
I've been labeled as being racist by certain assholes here (probably imports themselves) for pointing out appalling human conditions and disgusting attitudes toward workers in countries such as china, india and all the like.
...

I'll pay for the one way plane ticket to the third world country of your choice so you can deal with them 24/7 and live happily ever after hows that?!

I created the problem?-lol Fuck off dummy, come back and say something when you get a clue. You won't find a finer North American specimen of humanity than yours truly.
...
Just say no to a foreign ho!!! Support home grown talent!!

Gee, I wonder why someone would have a low opinion of you? I guess that means I must be an immigrant too.

 

[Keebler Elf]

'
By closing the borders we are working against a level playing field.

If the work can be done more cheaply and/or more effectively in India, then India should do the work and those Canadians employed in that sector should find another job in a different sector where they/we have a stronger competitive advantage. That type of specialization is the basis of all trade, and in the long run both trading partners gain.

Finally. Someone who understands!

I would rather we re-train those Canadians in the low skill jobs so they can move into the higher skilled jobs and thereby earn more money. I am 95% against subsidizing "dying" sectors (e.g., manufacturing). Unless the economics warrant it, they should all go.

The problem isn't that companies are outsourcing tech support to India. The problem is that they're outsourcing to companies that do not have a high enough standard of fluent English speaking workers.

 

[dajodo2]

Finally. Someone who understands!

I would rather we re-train those Canadians in the low skill jobs so they can move into the higher skilled jobs and thereby earn more money. I am 95% against subsidizing "dying" sectors (e.g., manufacturing). Unless the economics warrant it, they should all go.

The problem isn't that companies are outsourcing tech support to India. The problem is that they're outsourcing to companies that do not have a high enough standard of fluent English speaking workers.

Retrain to work where genius?

The unemployment office? That's not a "dying" sector.

Manufacturing jobs should all go. That's one of the most stupid things I've heard on here in a long time. Congratulations.

Your interesting theory that companies should simply use indians in india who speak with accents near our own is even more absurd.

Just where are these indian masters of English dialect who will work in a call centre for fifty bucks a week?

Just what makes you so sure you're job is so immune to foreign competition?

Let me guess you're retired.

 

[CapitalGuy]

No need to pick on any part of this post...enough to say it is people like this that have created the very problem he talks about. I would far sooner deal with someone in any third world country than this fine speciman of North American humanity.

Ok Mencken, nicely said. You get to be my friend. What kind of beer can I buy you?

 

[CapitalGuy]

!

Finally. Someone who understands!

I would rather we re-train those Canadians in the low skill jobs so they can move into the higher skilled jobs and thereby earn more money. I am 95% against subsidizing "dying" sectors (e.g., manufacturing). Unless the economics warrant it, they should all go.

The problem isn't that companies are outsourcing tech support to India. The problem is that they're outsourcing to companies that do not have a high enough standard of fluent English speaking workers.

Hey, you get a beer too. Guiness perhaps? Its imported!! lol.

 

[themexi]

Its far more than just economic benefits. A prosperous India is good for the world and good for humanity. But as I said, I don't expect you to care.

Let them worry about themselves.....

& for gods sake will you bleeding heart liberal globalist nazis let us worry about ourselves without hobbling us with your PC bullshit every step of the way?

 

[CapitalGuy]

Let them worry about themselves.....

& for gods sake will you bleeding heart liberal globalist nazis let us worry about ourselves without hobbling us with your PC bullshit every step of the way?

Not a bleeding heart. Not a liberal - staunch libertarian, even find the Conservative Party too lefty
Not PC either - no example though.

By the way, I am glad you acknowledge that Nazi's and liberals share an indeology (at least so far as governmental control of the economy goes). Most people forget that Nazi's were Socialists. Or am I giving you too much credit for an intellect that isn't really there?

 

[Master Muse]

To the poster who termed the US economy as going to shit, it grew 3.3% last quarter reported and unemployments is 5.7%. Not bad for a shitty economy. The liberals, democrats and media are simply lying about the economy in general. Are some elements struggling? You bet but that's because they overdid it. People complaint that the house they paid $100,000for is now only worth $500,000 not the $600,000 they thought it was worth last year. They allege losing $100,000. That's baloney. Sell the house and take your $400,000 profit. Now tell me your sad story again please.

 

[Fighting_Amish]

...to speak to a real Canadian in a Canadian based call centre (she is in Nova Scotia)...

I still don't think Bell is doing it right as Bell is not available in Nova Scotia.

Although I agree that it is much better that Bell is employing Canadians, they are not employing people who are Bell customers and therefore have a vested interest in seeing the company do well.

BTW, the best name I ever got was someone in a Call Centre in India told me their name was Buck.

 

[themexi]

Not a bleeding heart. Not a liberal - staunch libertarian, even find the Conservative Party too lefty
Not PC either - no example though.

By the way, I am glad you acknowledge that Nazi's and liberals share an indeology (at least so far as governmental control of the economy goes). Most people forget that Nazi's were Socialists. Or am I giving you too much credit for an intellect that isn't really there?

A real bleeding heart liberal is would have drank far too much of the koolaid to deny their "enlightened" worldview.

My apologies for the bleeding heart liberal accusation. If you're not one of those traitors then I would imagine the thought of being one to be rather distasteful....

The Name National Socialist Party would be a decent clue to anyone .

I simply resent being told I need to care as much about the fate of people on the other side of the world as I do my own. It may be "humane"... but it is contrary to being "human".

Yes, a prosperous world overall would stand a good chance of improving life for us all in some ways. However a far more permanent & potent solution to improve the lot of mankind as a whole would be to encourage these 3rd world countries to keep thier breeding under wraps. We should do the same for ourselves as well.

There are only so many resources to go around. I too am of Libertarian leanings so I'll explain my main issues with the current model of globalization.

I have no problem with corporations doing what they please & hiring who they please. The problem I have is with the goverments social engineering that does little but hobble us.

If they were to stop shoving all of this tolerance PC BS down our throats & just give us the facts & lets others say the facts without fear of the CHRC thought police .... then people may hve a chance to look at the facts & horror of horrors... make educated decisions based on self interest NOT based on conforming to some disastrous utopian ideology.

If people were made aware of the real consequences to our economy & therefore to the individual standard of living in terms of unbiased facts, allowed to discuss in any terms they feel like & act in their self interest I think peer pressure & pride would do what no government protectionism could ever do.

 

[blueman]

I just want someone at Bell who speaks proper English!

I am not as concerned with Bell outsourcing the call centre as much as I am interested in speaking with someone who speaks fluent English.

I have had a few French Canadian reps who may as well have been speaking Chinese. I could not understand them and there is no way they truly understood me.

As posted earlier Bell should be more concerned with the art of communication. Keeping clients happy is always less expensive than trying to bring back those who got pissed with poor service and left.

I use Bell but I have no loyalty to Bell whatsoever. I do not believe Bell has any loyalty to me (or anyone else for that matter).

Bell has shown me time and time again that they will screw me at every opportunity. It appears that Rogers is no better. If only a communication company would truly value their clients. They would surpass Bell and Rogers in a surprisingly short amount of time.