Call Centre progress ...no more calls to India or Pakistan!

[sailorsix]

I just got off the phone with a very nice CSR at Bell who helped me with some of the special features that we have on our home phone. At the end I thanked her and commented that it was very nice to speak to a real Canadian in a Canadian based call centre (she is in Nova Scotia). I told her that as much as I hate Ted Rogers and all that he represents, his call centres are for the most part when I have called them, all english canadians. I told her that I hate when Sympatico connects me to india for technical support and that now I usually hit '2 for French" and I muddle through with a french canadian tech support who will not / is not allowed to speak english to me.

At the end of my rant I again thanked her for working the holiday Monday. She then told me that 2 weeks ago Bell quietly changed their call centre policy. Now, when connected to india, we can immediately ask to be transferred to a Canadian call centre. Previously that only happened with me when I was escalated to 2nd level tech support.

This I think is great news. One, I will no longer have to talked to indians who speak an accented english that is incomprehensible, two it will support Canadian call centres. I personally know one Toronto call centre operator that disappeared last year, along with 87 jobs, when Bell cancelled his contract and moved them to india. It is too late for him but hopefully their recent action bodes well for the future of Canadian call centres.

 

[RayFinkel]

I'm gonna miss those fake names they were given.

Last year I spoke with an Indian named Sammy and another named Gary. LMAO!

 

[hilroy]

Its about time Bell pulled there heads out of there ass...Its sad when a communications company has no clue on how to communicate with its customers . I had a number of problems with my receiver a while back what a joke trying to explain things or to get transferred to a person who can speak the language..

 

[biancablaze]

I'm also with Bell & previously whenever I had technical support issues, I was routed to some cute teenagers on the East coast which was alot more fun...They all lost their jobs when my calls were being routed to Asia. Although the seemed very polite, I could barely understand what they said due to accents & speed talking.

Just wondering are you talking about the asians or the east coast teenagers. And if its the east coast teenagers what is this accent you speak of. If heard the newfie one but Im from NB and always hear oh I knew it you have the accent. Yet I dont know about the accent people are talkin about I believe I sound like any other english speaking person from toronto but I could be wrong. Its just always been a mystery for me.

 

[dajodo2]

I think it's not fair to label supporting one's home economy racist. The bottom line is that globalization has basically ruined many industries, including mine.

I'm not picking on you Selina but I just have to say it's pretty fucking sad when someone thinks they are somehow being racist for wanting to keep jobs here in North America (Canada & The States I mean, fuck mexico).

I've been labeled as being racist by certain assholes here (probably imports themselves) for pointing out appalling human conditions and disgusting attitudes toward workers in countries such as china, india and all the like.

I don't blame those countries per say as much as I blame scum bag CEOs here and cooperate greed. The never ending ruthless quest to appease stockholder greed as well. How much profit is enough?

Just who do these suit geniuses sitting in their board rooms expect to buy their shit here if they keep sending the average Joe and Jane's jobs over to third world countries to exploit slave labour?

Look at the States and how their economies gone to shit. They call it the credit crunch. Maybe if they keep jobs in their own country instead of shipping them over to fucking china to put their citizens (aka customers) employed and make some money they could actually pay the mortgage and the credit cards off? Spend money and support the US economy. Simple huh? You don't need a degree in economics to figure that out.

Ya but prices will rise due to corporations increased labour costs asshole if products are built here again some of you are thinking.

That's just a scare tactic being drummed into your sheepish minds.

What? Some of these corporations will only make four hundred and and fifty mill a year instead of five? Ya I feel for them.

Anyway I hope everyone is enjoying this lovely day off...don't forget to thank our forefather Unionists who fought for it!

Happy Labour Day!!

 

[dajodo2]

Just wondering are you talking about the asians or the east coast teenagers. And if its the east coast teenagers what is this accent you speak of. If heard the newfie one but Im from NB and always hear oh I knew it you have the accent. Yet I dont know about the accent people are talkin about I believe I sound like any other english speaking person from toronto but I could be wrong. Its just always been a mystery for me.

No offense Bianca but I may have solved they mystery.

If you speak using the same sentence structures as you type...mystery solved!!

 

[CapitalGuy]

It is in fact too bad that outsourced call centers are being brought back to Canada, for a number of reasons. Most significant to us are:

a) prices will likely increase due to the higher cost of Canadian labour versus outsourced Indian labour, and

b) if the trend of repatriating call centers continues, the tens of thousands of Canadians who work in American-owned, Canadian-based call centers serving US businesses and US customers, will be out of work. There are far more Canadian call center jobs working for US companies than there are Indian jobs working for Canadian companies, thus its not a straight swap. For the individual employee, it wouldn't be anyways, even if the number of jobs was equal.

I will assume none of you care about the benefits that accrue to Canada, to each of us, and to the world in general when a developing nation like India is able to employ people in call centers at relatively high salaries, thus increasing the wealth-generating capacity of the world's largest democracy.

 

[Serpent]

I will assume none of you care about the benefits that accrue to Canada, to each of us, and to the world in general when a developing nation like India is able to employ people in call centers at relatively high salaries, thus increasing the wealth-generating capacity of the world's largest democracy.

All that is fine and dandy if the schlub who loses his mfgring/call center/IT job sees dividends come in from the new found wealth of the world's largest democracy.

Look at the US as a case in example: outsourced a lot of stuff. It's been great for the rich CEO/upper mgmt who have made bonuses and reaped stock option benefits for outsourcing labor. However, wages are stagnant and Americans are working past retirement because they are working for less in the global economy (assuming they still have their jobs).

Trickle down doesn't work.

 

[CapitalGuy]

All that is fine and dandy if the schlub who loses his mfgring/call center/IT job sees dividends come in from the new found wealth of the world's largest democracy.

Look at the US as a case in example: outsourced a lot of stuff. It's been great for the rich CEO/upper mgmt who have made bonuses and reaped stock option benefits for outsourcing labor. However, wages are stagnant and Americans are working past retirement because they are working for less in the global economy (assuming they still have their jobs).

Trickle down doesn't work.

Its far more than just economic benefits. A prosperous India is good for the world and good for humanity. But as I said, I don't expect you to care.

 

[Serpent]

Its far more than just economic benefits. A prosperous India is good for the world and good for humanity. But as I said, I don't expect you to care.

Dude...if im laid off and unemployed/underemployed for 6 months, the only humanity i care for is ME!

In a kumbayah world, I'd be happy if ALL Indians made 200,000 and I made 200,000 as well....but it don't work like that and I'd like to be gainfully employed (I struggle and work hard to keep skills updated so just i save you that part....) rather than lose my job to some underpaid/overworked/no labor standard Indian.

 

[juanbrujo]

Calling for Bell Support just got less Bollywooder.

 

[shakenbake]

I'm not picking on you Selina but I just have to say it's pretty fucking sad when someone thinks they are somehow being racist for wanting to keep jobs here in North America (Canada & The States I mean, fuck mexico).

I've been labeled as being racist by certain assholes here (probably imports themselves) for pointing out appalling human conditions and disgusting attitudes toward workers in countries such as china, india and all the like.

I don't blame those countries per say as much as I blame scum bag CEOs here and cooperate greed. The never ending ruthless quest to appease stockholder greed as well. How much profit is enough?

Just who do these suit geniuses sitting in their board rooms expect to buy their shit here if they keep sending the average Joe and Jane's jobs over to third world countries to exploit slave labour?

Look at the States and how their economies gone to shit. They call it the credit crunch. Maybe if they keep jobs in their own country instead of shipping them over to fucking china to put their citizens (aka customers) employed and make some money they could actually pay the mortgage and the credit cards off? Spend money and support the US economy. Simple huh? You don't need a degree in economics to figure that out.

Ya but prices will rise due to corporations increased labour costs asshole if products are built here again some of you are thinking.

That's just a scare tactic being drummed into your sheepish minds.

What? Some of these corporations will only make four hundred and and fifty mill a year instead of five? Ya I feel for them.

Anyway I hope everyone is enjoying this lovely day off...don't forget to thank our forefather Unionists who fought for it!

Happy Labour Day!!

And, what about the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 asnd the massacre of the youth in the ninties? The greedy bastard CEOs didn't give a rat's ass about human suffering and justice, did they? All they cared about was the bottom line. However, the boycotting of goods and services from South Africa and other nations with deplorable human injusctices did go through, didn't it! And, while we are at it, what about global pollution? We can excuse some nations for polluting our earth for the sake of putting more money into the pockets of these CEOs.

Rant mode off.

Whew!

 

[shakenbake]

Its far more than just economic benefits. A prosperous India is good for the world and good for humanity. But as I said, I don't expect you to care.

What about a level playing field? Isn't that good for the world? Do you care about that, as well as for a prosperous India?

 

[CapitalGuy]

What about a level playing field? Isn't that good for the world? Do you care about that, as well as for a prosperous India?

'
By closing the borders we are working against a level playing field.

If the work can be done more cheaply and/or more effectively in India, then India should do the work and those Canadians employed in that sector should find another job in a different sector where they/we have a stronger competitive advantage. That type of specialization is the basis of all trade, and in the long run both trading partners gain.

At the personal level it is a cold-hearted doctrine, as the benefits accrue to the trading partners not necessarily the same individuals who are impacted. But on the macro-scale, if Canada cannot compete with India wrt call centers, then Canada is better off using its resources somewhere else. The cold-hearted part is that it is assumed the unemployed, less efficient Canadian will eventually get a job of equal or greater value, elsewhere. This is also where the government steps in with retraining schemes, or where the free market reallocates the labour resources where they are most needed.

And again, recall that every argument you are using to support the repatriation of Canadian call center jobs from India, can be used by the US to justify the repatriation of US call center jobs from Canada (although the same trade principles applies there, too; if we can do it better/more cheaply than the yanks, we should). Also applies to American companies that build cars in Canada thereby costing Americans jobs, American companies that manufacture steel in Canada thereby costing Americans jobs, American companies that build computers in Canada thereby costing Canadians jobs, etc. It all comes down to whether you are pro-trade anti-trade. In the long run, Canada will benefit from maximizing trade with the rest of the world, even though in the short term, the effects on individuals, in this case Canadian call center workers, can be devastating. Overall, Canadians are better off due to trade and off-shoring jobs, and the risk of us closing our borders is that other countries will close theirs.

The impact of taking jobs away from India in favour of Canada is that the Canadian companies employing that call center will now be using a less efficient resource than they could. In the short-term, good news for the East Coasters who get a job back. In the long term, bad news for Bell and its customers. Trade is good, that's all I'm saying.

As well, a stable and prosperous India means that disaffected Hindu's might get work and thus won't start resenting the vast wealth of the Western world, like so many disaffected Muslims currently do. That's sure as hell a good thing!!

 

[shakenbake]

CapitalGuy;

I hear what you are saying. However, at what cost do we keep the borders open? What I am saying is that they have to play by the same rules as we play, or we have to change to play by their rules. That means, both sides looking after the environment and respecting human dignity. When they do that, I am comfortable with the globalisation that you are talking about.

As it is right now, don't you see that the CEOs are effectively raping and plundering the developing countries? Who is getting rich in such countries as India and China? The more important question to answer is, how can we ensure that the Hindus and Muslims and others who deserve to partake in the fruits of their hard work will realise these fruits, or, at least, part of the riches that they have produced? On the other side of the coin, I agree that the Western world needs a kick in the butt to improve itsw productivity and equity, as well.

 

[jwmorrice]

Economics makes strange bedfellows!

It is in fact too bad that outsourced call centers are being brought back to Canada, for a number of reasons. Most significant to us are:

a) prices will likely increase due to the higher cost of Canadian labour versus outsourced Indian labour, and

b) if the trend of repatriating call centers continues, the tens of thousands of Canadians who work in American-owned, Canadian-based call centers serving US businesses and US customers, will be out of work. There are far more Canadian call center jobs working for US companies than there are Indian jobs working for Canadian companies, thus its not a straight swap. For the individual employee, it wouldn't be anyways, even if the number of jobs was equal.

I will assume none of you care about the benefits that accrue to Canada, to each of us, and to the world in general when a developing nation like India is able to employ people in call centers at relatively high salaries, thus increasing the wealth-generating capacity of the world's largest democracy.

Well put. I couldn't agree more.

jwm

 

[basketcase]

Dude...if im laid off and unemployed/underemployed for 6 months, the only humanity i care for is ME!

In a kumbayah world, I'd be happy if ALL Indians made 200,000 and I made 200,000 as well....but it don't work like that and I'd like to be gainfully employed (I struggle and work hard to keep skills updated so just i save you that part....) rather than lose my job to some underpaid/overworked/no labor standard Indian.

Problem 1 - If everyone was making $200,000, you'd quickly find the effects of something called inflation where grocery shopping is done with a box full of cash.

Problem 2 - I somehow doubt that the only reason you're not working is because of outsourcing of call centers. Not everyone is given a well paying job just because. Sometimes you actually have to struggle to live at the standard you desire.

 

[Serpent]

'
By closing the borders we are working against a level playing field.

If the work can be done more cheaply and/or more effectively in India, then India should do the work and those Canadians employed in that sector should find another job in a different sector where they/we have a stronger competitive advantage. That type of specialization is the basis of all trade, and in the long run both trading partners gain.

At the personal level it is a cold-hearted doctrine, as the benefits accrue to the trading partners not necessarily the same individuals who are impacted. But on the macro-scale, if Canada cannot compete with India wrt call centers, then Canada is better off using its resources somewhere else. The cold-hearted part is that it is assumed the unemployed, less efficient Canadian will eventually get a job of equal or greater value, elsewhere. This is also where the government steps in with retraining schemes, or where the free market reallocates the labour resources where they are most needed.

And again, recall that every argument you are using to support the repatriation of Canadian call center jobs from India, can be used by the US to justify the repatriation of US call center jobs from Canada (although the same trade principles applies there, too; if we can do it better/more cheaply than the yanks, we should). Also applies to American companies that build cars in Canada thereby costing Americans jobs, American companies that manufacture steel in Canada thereby costing Americans jobs, American companies that build computers in Canada thereby costing Canadians jobs, etc. It all comes down to whether you are pro-trade anti-trade. In the long run, Canada will benefit from maximizing trade with the rest of the world, even though in the short term, the effects on individuals, in this case Canadian call center workers, can be devastating. Overall, Canadians are better off due to trade and off-shoring jobs, and the risk of us closing our borders is that other countries will close theirs.

The impact of taking jobs away from India in favour of Canada is that the Canadian companies employing that call center will now be using a less efficient resource than they could. In the short-term, good news for the East Coasters who get a job back. In the long term, bad news for Bell and its customers. Trade is good, that's all I'm saying.

As well, a stable and prosperous India means that disaffected Hindu's might get work and thus won't start resenting the vast wealth of the Western world, like so many disaffected Muslims currently do. That's sure as hell a good thing!!

Quoted for idealism.

1. "If work can be done for cheaply/more effectively": not always as a consistent trend. Cost arbitrage usually comes at cost of quality.

2. "unemployed Canadians will get a job elsewhere, usually at greater value": again, not always. And in certain industries wage depression will be permanent. IT in the US is seeing that. According to KPMG, marketing and financial analysis (KPO) will be next.

3. Post totally ignores that India/China have unfair trade and labor policies - it's not a totally "Free Market" as we in N.America get told.

 

[Don]

Before we get all worked up about outsourcing and how Canadians are losing jobs, lets not forget that Canada is one giant outsouring destination for the US with tons of high-tech, graphics, manufacturing, film, etc jobs for US companies. Remember when John Kerry called out Dubya in 04 for selling out the American people for riding in a tour bus made in Canada...

 

[Serpent]

Problem 1 - If everyone was making $200,000, you'd quickly find the effects of something called inflation where grocery shopping is done with a box full of cash.

Problem 2 - I somehow doubt that the only reason you're not working is because of outsourcing of call centers. Not everyone is given a well paying job just because. Sometimes you actually have to struggle to live at the standard you desire.

Answer to problem 1: 200,000 was a hypothetical figure i tossed out there. If i restate my point to say that I'd be happy making good money and happy if Indians were well off as well, producing their own intellectual property, instead of being in a cost arbitrage business, would that do?

Answer to problem 2: i'm not specifically talking call centers. When a guy is 45-50 and is laid off because the whole IT department was offshored to India by say someone like Sprint Nextel out of Kansas, MO...the whole local labor market just went to shit. Imagine if Rogers, Bell and Telus did that to save $$ and tell me what happens then?