...and so it begins...but let's just be nice and keep helping them, no, no, this is just an isolated incident, this is the right thing to do, it's RT they must be spreading lies and propaganda zup, zup...just keep helping just keep helping...
Calais residents terrified over 3rd night of clashes between police & migrats
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@horn_liam: Anyone who says Syrian migrants are all military age men is a damned liar.
I can see 4 children. http://twitter.com/horn_liam/status/663500954201890816/photo/1
I can see 4 children. http://twitter.com/horn_liam/status/663500954201890816/photo/1
Every last one of them should be put on a boat and sent back to where they came from.
If you want to immigrate to the west, follow the procedures.
But I'm like a broken record on this issue already.
If you want to immigrate to the west, follow the procedures.
But I'm like a broken record on this issue already.
What is it with you and so many people here on TERB expressing such fear of Syrian refugees? Does it not occur to you that these people are fleeing in fear of their lives from the the civil war in Syria, caught between the brutality of Bashar Assad's regime and the monstrosity of ISIS?
We in Canada have a history of welcoming refugees from around the world, who have subsequently gone to integrate and become part of the fabric of Canada. Consider the Vietnamese boat-people who came here during the 70s and 80s -- I personally many of these whose members include prominent business owners, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc. Or consider the case of the Indian community from Uganda (many of whom were Muslim, btw), who were expelled at gunpoint by the regime of dictator Idi Amin during the 70s. They arrived here in Canada as refugees without going through the usual immigration procedures, and integrated and became highly successful -- the current mayor of Calgary is a son of these refugees.
Why do you refuse to look at all the sides, evidence already, and consider all POVs.
While good people are caught up in this yes, there are many with ulterior motives, and how do you fairly weed them out and not endanger your people and not break any laws particular human rights.
Don't you get it. People are getting smarter and are using the innocent to infiltrate and take advantage of the kindness and hospitality, naïveté being offered by the west and the human rights protection to infiltrate just like it is evident in your statement.
How would you feel if your neighborhood turned into this French city where you started having fear for your life and your property and city started to get damaged, looted, ect...
These military type of people that infiltrated these refugees are playing your type of people and using your type of words to an able their agenda. Your type of a person enables these military type of individuals because you can't see what is really going on. Ask yourself how many women, children, doctors, and good people these military type of refugee had to mug attack for a spot in this line. There are a ton more photos like the one above showing just military type of men and very few women, children etc....how do you explain this?
I've read your post, and frankly I'm not convinced. First of all, what makes you think that the looting that is taking place in Calais is not a consequence of heavy-handed police procedures to try to "manage" (i.e. forcibly remove) the migrants (many of whom are using France as a transit point to enter the UK)? Second of all, you see many military-age men among the refugees, but has it not occurred to you that the people who make the perilous journey to France are those most physically capable of making the journey, and that the plan is to land in a country where they can be reasonably secure, and then bring the rest of their family?
Second of all, your post reeks of paranoia, in which everyone who is Arabic-speaking is automatically a terrorist. Do you actually have any credible evidence that you can point to me where these refugees are ISIS members? I didn't think so.
And I don't think it is naive to try to recognize the basic humanity in the people. Try to imagine being in these people's shoes. If you were faced with a civil war in your country, with threats made to your life and the lives of your family, what would you do? Would you not attempt to seek safe haven somewhere? Would you not want someone to help you?
I was in their shoes, experienced war and came to Canada through the established process and the system worked for people like me. I know exactly how war feels, how it feels to abandon your whole family, friends, and leave your life behind and start over. Now I consider myself a Canadian citizen, have married a Canadian woman, have kids born here, and have an interracial marriage. I now consider Canada the best country in the world.
I can't take your statements seriously when you mention ignorant stuff like this "Second of all, your post reeks of paranoia, in which everyone who is Arabic-speaking is automatically a terrorist. " You ask me to justify my statements, but you are just using a biased approach by throwing sand and not considering all POV making silly assumptions, and not making an educated informed statement.
This refugee crises is massive, and if not property managed, screened, and carefully examined by considering as many POVs as feasibly possible has a potential to bring serious problems to our society particularly if our decisions are heavily biased by our willingness to blindly help the needy because it is the human thing to do and from the political pressures to help them. This is only the surface of the matter and you have not even removed the surface layer with your statements and have not provided a viable solution to manage this mess.
This needs a carefully systematic approach and not blindly helping the massive influx of refugees because we are just that nice and believe that we should help the entire world.
I was not aware that you came to Canada as a refugee. I am glad that you have made a success here in Canada and feel welcome here. My comment which you have bolded above was based on your response as follows:
"While good people are caught up in this yes, there are many with ulterior motives, and how do you fairly weed them out and not endanger your people and not break any laws particular human rights."
"Don't you get it. People are getting smarter and are using the innocent to infiltrate and take advantage of the kindness and hospitality, naïveté being offered by the west and the human rights protection to infiltrate just like it is evident in your statement. "
"These military type of people that infiltrated these refugees are playing your type of people and using your type of words to an able their agenda. Your type of a person enables these military type of individuals because you can't see what is really going on. Ask yourself how many women, children, doctors, and good people these military type of refugee had to mug attack for a spot in this line. There are a ton more photos like the one above showing just military type of men and very few women, children etc....how do you explain this?"
For me, at least at initial reading, these posts remind me of the paranoid pronouncements that have become the stock-in-trade of right-wing media outlets like Fox News. And my response was that there has been no credible evidence that any significant # of refugees are members of ISIS, the Al-Nusra Front, or similar jihadist groups (I presume when you talk about an "agenda", you are talking about a radical Islamist, terrorist agenda).
Similarly, my response about why there are no significant # of women and children among the refugees pictured can be easily be explained away by my statement that the people who made it into Europe are those most physically able to make the grueling journey into France to begin with, and most likely have family left behind either in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey or are still stuck in Syria.
The irony is absolutely amazing. A landed immigrant that has been given all the benefits of this country with open arms is now standing beside paranoid rednecks to withdraw the same Canadian hospitality to people who are fleeing for their lives. Keep in mind also the same rednecks most likely felt the same about you when you first landed.
...and immigrants like me went through many months if not years of paper work, screening, medical tests, background checks etc...how much of this is happening now. Why are these people allowed to hijack the system, undermine and not follow the appropriate process that hundreds of thousands if not millions followed before and got screened. How is this protecting us?
Instead of going back and forth with you and trying to avoid making this personal or personal attacks let's keep this constructive... please explain to me how they are being screened, back ground checked, verified, medically checked etc...what kind of processes are in place to protect against infiltration of terrorists? Do you believe the system they have in place now is effective? Would you improve anything? Do you think the system needs to be systematic or is it fine the way it is. Do you not believe that there are terrorist who would try anything to attack our society especially when they notice opportunity to exploit such an easy situation to infiltrate by using the innocent? What is your solution against terrorism and ISIS? Are you saying that we just open our doors wide open and allow a massive influx of these refugees. So what happens to other immigrants who followed the process, waited years, got screened...what do we do with them, put them on the back burner tell them to wait longer? How do we address the problems native people are facing, how do we address the unemployment? But yes, let just open the doors to these refugees...you may understand how this is beneficial, however I don't see it and am NOT convinced.
Just a guess but could it be because they are facing death as an alternative ? They are refugees meaning they do not have the luxury of waiting in line.
You are in a hospital waiting for your free medical service when the doors crash open and an accident victim is rushed into surgery for a life saving operation ... do you stand up and demand first come, first served ? Do you request that the patient fill out the OHIP forms as you had to do ?
You are in a boat when a cruise ship goes down and the sea is filled with people struggling for their lives. Maybe you can't save everyone but you wouldn't at least try to save what you can from drowning ?
Right or wrong - that is how I see it.
BTW: They are not opening the subways and letting these refugees wander the streets of Toronto. They are taking them to military bases which can house ~ 12,000 for processing. They did the same at the end of the Vietnam war and many of those processed are also proud immigrant Canadians
I hope you are right, I hope they do become proud Canadians and embrace our culture and give back positively to our society and weed out all the infiltrated terrorist. The cynic in me thinks different based on all the images, stories, videos and my own experience we are all seeing constantly. I think being cynical and critical and making sure no angle left untouched will only improve the system, as long as the end result is ethical particularly for the citizens of the country they are arriving to. My experience as a kid from war has exposed me to a lot of truth and allowed me to see the evil people are truly capable of doing. The part that is fcked up is now some of those generals and soldiers who ordered those commands and/or participated in those acts are walking free as citizens among us, and acting like nothing happend and now are coaches teachers doctors, etc..
P
I think the biggest source of frustration on this issue is that the Arab states - Syria's neighbors have refused to accept even one refugee. Why should the west pick up the entirety of the humanitarian effort when the countries next door don't get scrutinized or pressure to take in the refugees? They are right next door. Instead of travelling thousands of miles, they could have just crossed the eastern border and been safe. How come there is no pressure on those countries to help? What I find most confusing is why did all the men of military age not stay and fight for their country? There are thousands that could have turned the tide against ISIL if they had stayed
well said as usual. unfortunately our prior pm spent ten years inciting fear and we are reaping his harvest.
that's right. its shameful the way many are acting. what is Canada but a country built by people seeking a better life, a safer life. we can cringe and shy away from these newcomers so they never fit it, or we can welcome and help them fit in to Canadian society. your choice
A few bits of history....
The Vietnamese did not come over in under two months. In fact it was a much longer process. Most of them were on islands and had been for awhile. And yes it wad a wonderful massive effort that worked. But mostly because it was the Canadian People and not the Canadian Gov't that facilitated this. It was grassroots. And that's what made it work.
So then in light of this wonderful act the gov't chose to except more refugees and created rules. Very open rules.
Then starting in the mid Eighties enterprising immigration lawyers from Canada started advertising via the same in other countries how to use the refugee rules to bypass the immigration system. Just flush your passport on the plane and claim. And then it's a minimum of five years housing health care etc where you can fight to stay. And most won.
So as a matter of Public outcry by the Canadian People(yup, those same people) the rules were tightened in 1995 by Chretien. To get refugee status first you had to apply via the UN. A year vetting process. And approval. We take in about 14,000 a year since. About half private and half gov't sponsored. And this hasn't changed in 20 years under any Gov't.
There has been talk of getting them here to military bases and then vetting them. And as soon as it was mentioned the immigration advocates balked. Stating that if they arrive here they can't be sent back. That's the mindset of some. But I do have an issue with this. Not with the numbers. If we can find ways to give legit support to families and orphans take em in.
But we as a nation also have a responsibility to ensure that they can be successful. And that they want to be successful. And that they want to be Canadian. Demanding we take them all without vetting and sort it out later(which to them means not at all) is the first step. Then demands for them to stop being warehouses on the bases.
And then we have the housing issue. A ten year waiting period and a billion repair backlog.
We need to care for them properly. If we make a promise to take them we are responsible for them.
And that's why myself and other are thinking too much, too quick, with no forethought.
Not because of racism, or redneckism. But pragmatism.
The Vietnamese did not come over in under two months. In fact it was a much longer process. Most of them were on islands and had been for awhile. And yes it wad a wonderful massive effort that worked. But mostly because it was the Canadian People and not the Canadian Gov't that facilitated this. It was grassroots. And that's what made it work.
So then in light of this wonderful act the gov't chose to except more refugees and created rules. Very open rules.
Then starting in the mid Eighties enterprising immigration lawyers from Canada started advertising via the same in other countries how to use the refugee rules to bypass the immigration system. Just flush your passport on the plane and claim. And then it's a minimum of five years housing health care etc where you can fight to stay. And most won.
So as a matter of Public outcry by the Canadian People(yup, those same people) the rules were tightened in 1995 by Chretien. To get refugee status first you had to apply via the UN. A year vetting process. And approval. We take in about 14,000 a year since. About half private and half gov't sponsored. And this hasn't changed in 20 years under any Gov't.
There has been talk of getting them here to military bases and then vetting them. And as soon as it was mentioned the immigration advocates balked. Stating that if they arrive here they can't be sent back. That's the mindset of some. But I do have an issue with this. Not with the numbers. If we can find ways to give legit support to families and orphans take em in.
But we as a nation also have a responsibility to ensure that they can be successful. And that they want to be successful. And that they want to be Canadian. Demanding we take them all without vetting and sort it out later(which to them means not at all) is the first step. Then demands for them to stop being warehouses on the bases.
And then we have the housing issue. A ten year waiting period and a billion repair backlog.
We need to care for them properly. If we make a promise to take them we are responsible for them.
And that's why myself and other are thinking too much, too quick, with no forethought.
Not because of racism, or redneckism. But pragmatism.
Can we have a Storm Front section on TERB so every bigot can just post whatever they want, congrats you scum bags you won the citizenship and geography lottery in life and were born in one of the greatest nations on earth because one of your ancestors managed to scrape together enough shillings, francs or guilders to get on a rat infested ship to get here. That lottery did not give you the right to decide who lives and dies in Idlib, Baghdad or Kabul.
And it is this hyperbole considering the Canadian record of immigration that should be reserved for Nations like Saudi Arabia, Russia, Japan et al.
If you won the lottery, would you give it all away?
