Buying condo questions

gentle_lover

Banned
Mar 5, 2005
2,077
0
0
This is about condos that are still being built.

I have heard that when you buy a condo in this stage you do not have to make mortgage payments yet until the condo is ready for you to move in. Is this true?
If it is, what kind of payments and how much (%) I'm looking at to put first up front?
Will this up front payments deducted from the amount of mortgage I will be getting in the future when the condo is done?
 
You don't have to pay your mortgage but you have to effectively "rent" the unit off the developer until the condo corporation registers.

This sounds like a good deal until you figure out you're paying for the unit and that money is NOT going towards your mortgage principal (and it could be a couple of years before the corp gets registered).

The amount will be determined by the developer and should be somewhere around what your mortgage payment is (unless you have a huge downpayment).

I'm not sure if you would be paying the equivolent of maintenance fees, but I bet you'd be on the hook for utilities.

BTW: if you do move in while the rest of the building is still being completed, get used to dust!!!
 
For purposes of reselling, are condo units registered individually or collectively as a whole? I thought it was the latter...

My understanding is that buyers cannot resell their units until the condo is registered.
 
Keebler Elf said:
For purposes of reselling, are condo units registered individually or collectively as a whole? I thought it was the latter...

My understanding is that buyers cannot resell their units until the condo is registered.

I went through this last year. In my case, I had to wait until the condo was registered. No (reputable) real estate agent will touch your condo to sell, until there is a title registered. My builder also had very strict rules on this, and tracked everything, from visits (concierge), etc. And they were checking craigslist/etc. type websites for private sales. If they found you in violation of the agreement, they had the right to cancel the agreement, with you losing your down payment. I have heard stories of ad hoc "agreements" of the sale of the unit until registered, but that's rare (and somewhat risky).

Until then, from the time you take "interim occupancy", you pay the phantom mortgage, basically rent (usually close to what your mortgage payment is) and utilities until it's registered. If you are paying outright cash in full on the condo, you _could_ pay up in full at occupancy to not pay the phantom mortgage, which could present some complication if the builder goes under during the interim occupancy period, depending on where your funds really are (i.e. in trust, etc.) during that period.

Hope this helps. Basically, from my experience, if you are looking to flip, really put down all the costs and see if it's worth it. By the time you're done paying rent, fees, taxes, service charges (from here to high heaven, in my case), you may be better off keeping it. Or not.
 
Sukdeep said:
Some developers put restrictions in the purchase agreement to discourage flippers. But, generally, you can sell your interest prior to closing/registration. Instead of selling an interest in the condo corporation, you would be selling a right to buy an interest....

I believe there is a law in place to prevent flipping of properties, If I'm not mistaken the deal has to close fully and you take possession before you can re-sell it (even back to the developer).

This was the one brought out in the late 80's due to the bizarre real estate market back then.

As for registering: I don't know exactly what you mean, you hold title to your individual unit and it is registered with the property registrar. The condo corporation is registered as a corporation with CRDC and you (being a unit owner) are a "shareholder" in that corporation.

Due to the amount of Condo Corps that went under and caused a big mess the Condominium Laws have changed dramatically to be 100% biased towards protecting the corporation. Don't kid yourself, if it comes down to siezing your unit or the corp going under, they'll sieze your unit. Same as if your elected board runs the corp into the ground and needs 100K from each unit owner, you'll have to cough up or, lose your unit. This is why I have ALWAYS advocated to any condo owner who will listen to:
1) Attend the MEETINGS
2) Pay attention to who you elect to the board
3) Get elected to the board at least once
4) READ all your paperwork.

When my place was first registered the first board was running this building like their own little fifedom and we're still suffering because of them.....
 
gentle_lover said:
This is about condos that are still being built.

I have heard that when you buy a condo in this stage you do not have to make mortgage payments yet until the condo is ready for you to move in. Is this true?
If it is, what kind of payments and how much (%) I'm looking at to put first up front?
Will this up front payments deducted from the amount of mortgage I will be getting in the future when the condo is done?

This is correct. You will have to make a downpayment to the builder, and this will vary by builder and developer. With my own, I had to put down 5% on signing the agreement of purchase, 5% a month later, and a final 5% 6 months prior to occupancy. I have recently seen some projects advertised as only requiring 5% up front.

Now, when you first buy a unit that is being built you do not have to "rent" it from the developer. This does not occur until occupancy. When buying a condo there are two important dates to keep in mind: the occupancy date and the closing date.

The occupancy date occurs when the condominium is "substantially" completed. At this point, the builder still owns the unit, but things have progressed enough for you to move in. On your occupancy date, you then must pay the builder a monthyl occupancy fee which is made up of 3 parts: 1) your share of common expenses (roughly equivalent to condo fees); 2) estimated property taxes; and 3) interest on the outstanding balance (ie. in my case, the remaining 85%) which is at a prescribed rate (I believe 6%). You continue to pay occupancy fees to the builder until the condominium corporation has been registered, after which you will reach your closing date (I think it's within 15 days of the registration).

On your closing, a proper accounting of the estimated elements of your occupancy fee will be carried out and any variance added to or subtracted from your amount owing. At this point, title would be registered in your name, and the bank would pay the builder the outstanding amount thus beginning your mortgage in that amount.

As for resale, in my own purchase agreement I was prohibited from re-selling my unit until all units had been sold, or 12 months had passed from closing. This was to insure that the builder didn't have to compete with resale while trying to offload outstanding units. I understand this is fairly common.
 
thompo69 said:
This is correct. You will have to make a downpayment to the builder, and this will vary by builder and developer. With my own, I had to put down 5% on signing the agreement of purchase, 5% a month later, and a final 5% 6 months prior to occupancy. I have recently seen some projects advertised as only requiring 5% up front.

Now, when you first buy a unit that is being built you do not have to "rent" it from the developer. This does not occur until occupancy. When buying a condo there are two important dates to keep in mind: the occupancy date and the closing date.

The occupancy date occurs when the condominium is "substantially" completed. At this point, the builder still owns the unit, but things have progressed enough for you to move in. On your occupancy date, you then must pay the builder a monthyl occupancy fee which is made up of 3 parts: 1) your share of common expenses (roughly equivalent to condo fees); 2) estimated property taxes; and 3) interest on the outstanding balance (ie. in my case, the remaining 85%) which is at a prescribed rate (I believe 6%). You continue to pay occupancy fees to the builder until the condominium corporation has been registered, after which you will reach your closing date (I think it's within 15 days of the registration).

On your closing, a proper accounting of the estimated elements of your occupancy fee will be carried out and any variance added to or subtracted from your amount owing. At this point, title would be registered in your name, and the bank would pay the builder the outstanding amount thus beginning your mortgage in that amount.

As for resale, in my own purchase agreement I was prohibited from re-selling my unit until all units had been sold, or 12 months had passed from closing. This was to insure that the builder didn't have to compete with resale while trying to offload outstanding units. I understand this is fairly common.

Ok, let say I do want the condo not for resale or anything like that, but to keep. You said that there will be occupancy fees every month. If I decided to not move in yet until the condo is registered/closing date, do I still have to pay the occupancy fee? If I do, will those fees will be deducted from the amount the amount owing to the builder?
 
thompo69 said:
As for resale, in my own purchase agreement I was prohibited from re-selling my unit until all units had been sold, or 12 months had passed from closing. This was to insure that the builder didn't have to compete with resale while trying to offload outstanding units. I understand this is fairly common.

Ahhh, that makes sense then. I was surprised to find that a recently completed condo had no units for resale (only unsold original units). It's probably because it's only been a couple months since people started moving in.
 
gentle_lover said:
Ok, let say I do want the condo not for resale or anything like that, but to keep. You said that there will be occupancy fees every month. If I decided to not move in yet until the condo is registered/closing date, do I still have to pay the occupancy fee? If I do, will those fees will be deducted from the amount the amount owing to the builder?

If you decide not to move in, you still have to pay the occupancy fees, which are not deducted from the amount you owe. It's basically treated like rent.
 
gentle_lover said:
Ok, let say I do want the condo not for resale or anything like that, but to keep. You said that there will be occupancy fees every month. If I decided to not move in yet until the condo is registered/closing date, do I still have to pay the occupancy fee? If I do, will those fees will be deducted from the amount the amount owing to the builder?

You will have to pay occupancy fees from the occupancy date. Whether you move in or not is irrelevant. However, to a certain extent, your occupancy date can be negotiable with the builder.

In any event. occupancy fees do not lower your liabilities to the builder. They cover interest, not principal. You are essentially treading water.
 
I wonder, is there some legal issue that allows a builder to force someone to live in an uncompleted building. I know the developement I worked on the people were eager to move in so they didn't care but there was a lot of issues to deal with: unfinished lobby, construction workers one floor below, unfinished hallways, elevators full of material, no mail service.....
 
There is a basic level of completeness of a dwelling unit that allows the builder to get an occupancy certificate from the municipality. Most of us would think it was too soon, for example you don't need a kitchen counter. From what I understand it's mainly about working plumbing. So the occupancy date can be quite early, and it has nothing to do with completion of the common areas.

Think about it, you have a builder who has a big mortgage over the entire project and that builder wants you in your unit paying your portion of the mortgage.

Oh, and whether you move in or not is relevant to whether you can access the GST Rebate for new housing. As I recall the rule is the buyer or a close relative has to move in (and it has to be their principal residence) within the first 18 months to get the rebate.
 
Yeah, a kitchen counter isn't required for occupancy.

I know a working kitchen exhaust fan, 1 working toilet, 1 working sink, locking entrance door (4 or 6 hr fire rating I think it has to be) approved/inspected electrical. I don't think you even need a working furnace.

I know things like carpet, trim, appliances aren't required for occupancy.
 
tboy said:
I believe there is a law in place to prevent flipping of properties, If I'm not mistaken the deal has to close fully and you take possession before you can re-sell it (even back to the developer).

That is incorrect, at least in the GTA. You can flip a condo before closing by reassigning the purchase agreement. Basically the builder will amend the purchase agreement and change the name. However, usually they will charge a fee (e.g. $5000) or in some cases they don't allow it at all (Tridel).
 
Sukdeep said:
There's no such statute (anywhere in Canada, AFAIK). It's a contractual limitation, between you and your builder. Even Tridel condos can be flipped. It's just a matter of approaching the builder and making the request. Yes, they will require a fee.
I have read so much bad reviews about Tridel, although they voted to be number one builder. This includes how the unit plans turn out to be completely different to what they said, how they treat customer like a second class citizen, and etc. I read this from condo forums. Is this true? Any experiences?
 
Now I'm not defending tridel or any developer/builder but from my experience on both sides of the equation, a new owner will say the floor plan is "completely different" because one room is 1" smaller than they originally thought. Or they "didn't know it would be like this", or "I think it would have been better to do it this way". I can't TELL you how many times I heard those comments and then I pull out the floor plan with their signature on it, and confirm everything is according to plan.....It's amazing what people don't think about, ask about or confirm when they're laying out or buying a condo or a house.

Just for the record though there ARE builders who are whacked. I was doing a PDI on one unit and found out they built a hallway closet, 8' wide (nice) but only 12" deep. WTF is someone supposed to do with THAT?
 
tboy said:
Now I'm not defending tridel or any developer/builder but from my experience on both sides of the equation, a new owner will say the floor plan is "completely different" because one room is 1" smaller than they originally thought. Or they "didn't know it would be like this", or "I think it would have been better to do it this way". I can't TELL you how many times I heard those comments and then I pull out the floor plan with their signature on it, and confirm everything is according to plan.....It's amazing what people don't think about, ask about or confirm when they're laying out or buying a condo or a house.

Just for the record though there ARE builders who are whacked. I was doing a PDI on one unit and found out they built a hallway closet, 8' wide (nice) but only 12" deep. WTF is someone supposed to do with THAT?
Can I say that you work for Tridel?

If it's only an inch different, I personally will not a big deal out of it. But when it is completely different from the floor plan, then I can see myself not being happy about it. Is there any clause on the agreement that protects the buyer regarding this matter?
 
gentle_lover said:
Can I say that you work for Tridel?

If it's only an inch different, I personally will not a big deal out of it. But when it is completely different from the floor plan, then I can see myself not being happy about it. Is there any clause on the agreement that protects the buyer regarding this matter?

No, you cannot say I work for tridel, well you could, but you'd be lying.

There is a clause that protects the builder that states: specifications are subject to change without notice. Something that many purchasers fail to do is READ THE BLOODY CONTRACT.
 
tboy said:
No, you cannot say I work for tridel, well you could, but you'd be lying.

There is a clause that protects the builder that states: specifications are subject to change without notice. Something that many purchasers fail to do is READ THE BLOODY CONTRACT.
ok.....can i say that you work for a builder?

In that kind of situation, can the purchaser ask the contract to be changed? Or is it something like "take it or leave it" sale agreement?
 
gentle_lover said:
ok.....can i say that you work for a builder?

In that kind of situation, can the purchaser ask the contract to be changed? Or is it something like "take it or leave it" sale agreement?

No, worked for a builder.......

You can ask anything but a contract is a contract and if it's got two signatures on it, it cannot be changed unless both parties agree.