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Brian Mulroney, RIP

K Douglas

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Jan 5, 2005
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Say what you want about Mulroney (his association with Karheinz Schreiber etc.) he was a very good politician and one of this country's best statesmen. There was also a tremendous humanity to him. Quite often he would reach out to people, many his political foes, and offer condolences or advice in their time of need. If he was in your corner, you were better for it.

Mulroney in many ways inspired me to take an interest in politics as a teen. Particularly at the time of the Free Trade Agreement with the U.S. And I don't think folks will ever forget the thorough beatdown he laid on John Turner at the 1984 leaders debate
 

JeanGary Diablo

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Aug 5, 2017
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And I don't think folks will ever forget the thorough beatdown he laid on John Turner at the 1984 leaders debate
Mulroney definitely gave Turner a beatdown, but he did it, and if I may use a Don Cherryism here, the Canadian way, with class. He didn't do it with ranting and raving and trying to take a page out of the American political playbook, like certain politicians of ours choose to do so today.

In the 1980s, the Progressive Conservatives, Liberals and NDP were, more or less, on the same page with most policies. Where they differed mostly was on how, where and how much to fund policies. But they all shared the same goal: to make Canada a better country.

This, of course, was before Canadian politics became a team sport.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,454
6,841
113
Room 112
Mulroney definitely gave Turner a beatdown, but he did it, and if I may use a Don Cherryism here, the Canadian way, with class. He didn't do it with ranting and raving and trying to take a page out of the American political playbook, like certain politicians of ours choose to do so today.

In the 1980s, the Progressive Conservatives, Liberals and NDP were, more or less, on the same page with most policies. Where they differed mostly was on how, where and how much to fund policies. But they all shared the same goal: to make Canada a better country.

This, of course, was before Canadian politics became a team sport.
The Progressive Conservatives and Liberals were pretty close policy wise. The New Democratic Party was still the outlier.
Fast forward 40 years and now the Liberal Party and the NDP are almost aligned in philosophy. Its socialism and socialism light.
 

JeanGary Diablo

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Its socialism and socialism light.
Don't agree with this. The Liberals are well entrenched in Big Business. Socialism is really about the government overtaking the means of production, and I don't see the Liberals trying to do that. In terms of things like healthcare, absolutely, keep it the hell out of corprate hands.

Also, 'socialism' need not become a curse word in Canada like it is in the USA. The USA is not a country we should ever aspire to be more like. A war was fought in 1812 to keep them and their values the hell out of this country. I am all in favour of keeping it that way.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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As a young man in university at the time, I despised Mulroney. However, now, despite the big brown paper bags filled with cash, I'd give anything to have a Prime Minister like him as opposed to the 15 watt bulb we currently have in there.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,454
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113
Room 112
Don't agree with this. The Liberals are well entrenched in Big Business. Socialism is really about the government overtaking the means of production, and I don't see the Liberals trying to do that. In terms of things like healthcare, absolutely, keep it the hell out of corprate hands.

Also, 'socialism' need not become a curse word in Canada like it is in the USA. The USA is not a country we should ever aspire to be more like. A war was fought in 1812 to keep them and their values the hell out of this country. I am all in favour of keeping it that way.
OK you may not agree with it but doesn't make it wrong. Socialism isn't arbitrary. Quite often in socialist type economies you will see large private corporations who wield tremendous power and influence over policy.
Socialism doesn't work. Period. It should be a curse word.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,454
6,841
113
Room 112
Listening to all the hagiographic stuff being written about Muldoon is a little bit nauseating. I totally support the man in terms of his stance on South Africa but not much else. They seem to forget his blatant corruption and patronage. Minister after minister resigned in disgrace. There is reason why his party was reduced to two seats.
He got too arrogant and was so obsessed with patriating Quebec that he took his eyes off the other issues. Like preparing for an oncoming economic recession.

One of the things that Mulroney did that got overlooked was taxation reform. Not mentioned here but one thing it allowed taxpayers to do was obtain tax refunds retroactively. Whereas prior to that if you didn't file by a certain date you lost your tax refund.

Federal Tax Reform, 1987–91
In June 1987, the federal government introduced Stage One of Tax Reform. It included proposals for reform of the personal and corporate income tax structure. Bill C-139 took effect on 1 January 1988, although some changes were to be phased in over a longer period.

Income tax

In line with tax reform in other countries, Bill C-139 broadened the tax base for both personal and corporate income. It also reduced the rates applicable to taxable income. The bill replaced exemptions with credits and eliminated some deductions for personal income tax. It also replaced the 1987 rate schedule, with its 10 brackets and rates ranging from 6 to 34 per cent, with a schedule containing only three brackets with rates of 17 per cent, 26 per cent, and 29 per cent. (As of 2015, there were four federal brackets with rates of 15 per cent, 22 per cent, 26 per cent and 29 per cent. The 2015 rates in the provinces and territories ranged from 4 per cent to 25.75 per cent, according to income level.)

Capital Gains, Dividends and Business Taxes

Bill C-139 also capped the lifetime capital gains exemption at $100,000. (As of 2013, the lifetime exemption was $750,000. This was available only to owners of businesses, farms or fishing properties). The Bill also reduced capital cost allowances; introduced limitations on deductible business expenses; and lowered the dividend tax credit.


Goods and Services Tax (GST)

In 1991, the federal government introduced Stage Two of Tax Reform. As part of this reform effort, Ottawa initially proposed a national value-added tax; it would merge the new federal sales tax and the provincial retail sales taxes. The federal government was unable to get approval from the provincial governments for this proposal; instead, it continued with Stage Two of Tax Reform and replaced the manufacturers’ sales tax with the Goods and Services Tax (GST).

The manufacturers’ sales tax was difficult to administer; it was also widely criticized for placing an unequal tax burden on different consumer purchases. With a broadly based, multi-stage sales tax such as the GST, tax is collected from all businesses in stages, as goods (or services) move from primary producers and processors to wholesalers, retailers and finally to consumers.

The GST has some advantages over the old manufacturers’ sales tax. It eliminates tax on business inputs and treats all businesses in a consistent manner. It ensures uniform and effective tax rates on the final sale price of products. Finally, it treats imports in the same manner as domestically produced goods. It also completely removes hidden federal taxes from Canadian exports.
 

roddermac

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2023
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He was well respected on the world stage. Not like the idiot who is our current prime minister who is respected by virtually no world leader and in fact is usually a laughing stock.
Unlike the guy in charge now. The U.S. president and other world leaders welcomed him with open arms. They didn't call him out on his behaviour. Good thing about Mulroney is that he kept his son away from politics.
 

JeanGary Diablo

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Aug 5, 2017
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OK you may not agree with it but doesn't make it wrong. Socialism isn't arbitrary. Quite often in socialist type economies you will see large private corporations who wield tremendous power and influence over policy.
Socialism doesn't work. Period. It should be a curse word.
Socialism is an economic system where the government controls the means of production and owns the property. At least know what you're talking about. Do yourself a favour and stop consuming American media.

There's a difference between "socialism" and "social democracy". I wouldn't want to live in a socialist country, but a social democracy, absolutely, we kind of there already and hopefully it gets stronger.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,454
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Room 112
Socialism is an economic system where the government controls the means of production and owns the property. At least know what you're talking about. Do yourself a favour and stop consuming American media.

There's a difference between "socialism" and "social democracy". I wouldn't want to live in a socialist country, but a social democracy, absolutely, we kind of there already and hopefully it gets stronger.
I think I know what I'm talking about my masters thesis was on the subject of comparative economic systems. I studied the Soviet planned system extensively.
Of course I understand that there is a difference between socialism and social democracy. In my opinion the current versions of the Liberal, NDP and Green parties of Canada lean more socialism, than social democracy.
There are varying levels of socialism. What you are referring to is Marxist socialism whereby the state controls all the means of production. Like the aforementioned Soviet Union. But you also have socialist market economies, like what we see in contemporary China. The state controls most of the means of production but there are some privately owned companies as well ex. Alibaba.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Every. Single. Quebec. Politician. Is. Corrupt.
Its way beyond politicians in Quebec.

Every single business owner in Quebec is corrupt. They have 0 scruples and will treat the company like their own personal ATM every time.

Never ever trust them.
 
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K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
26,454
6,841
113
Room 112
Its way beyond politicians in Quebec.

Every single business owner in Quebec is corrupt. They have 0 scruples and will treat the company like their own personal ATM every time.

Never ever trust them.
I don't think you can make that blanket statement. However I do agree that Quebec, by far, is the most corrupt province in Canada. Politically and economically.
 
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