Bob Dylan thread
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I'm in the "Dylan is overrated" camp. That's not to say that he didn't write a lot of excellent songs, and influence many artists. But no one -- and I mean no one -- deserves the beatification that Dylan has received, most of which comes from people who haven't listened to anything recorded after 1975. Most of Dylan's most memorable stuff was recorded HALF A CENTURY AGO, people! And his ardent fans conveniently forget the, oh, 20 or so albums of crap that Dylan put out -- such as Self Portrait, all that religious dreck, Street Legal, etc. It is theoretically possible that work that is half a century old is still relevant and sublime, just as the Victorian novel remains the highest form of the genre, 150 years later. That is perhaps a discussion worth having, but only if those making the case for Dylan have some familiarity with what has been recorded over the last few decades or so. Unfortunately, that is seldom the case. Some Dylan fanatics are locked in a time warp in which the prevailing view is that no good music has been recorded since about the time of Led Zeppelin IV.
Some argue that Dylan's confusing lyrics are "deep", and if you don't like them, then you just don't understand them. His early lyrics simply copied the style and phrasing of the beat poets -- nothing wrong with that, but let's not ascribe much originality to Dylan during that period. Many of his lyrics from 1966-1975 were just drug-inspired gibberish. To attempt to ascribe depth of meaning to them is either desperation or pretension. The fact of the matter is that there are many, many artists, ranging from folk to rock to electronic to hip hop, who have written and performed material equal to or better than Dylan's in the last couple of decades. And certainly, several of Dylan's own contemporaries were significantly better lyricists and musicians (notably Paul Simon and Joni Mitchell, to name but two). And just in case you're wondering, I am deeply familiar with Dylan's work, having gone through -- and thankfully emerged from -- a period of deep Dylan fandom earlier in my life.
Some argue that Dylan's confusing lyrics are "deep", and if you don't like them, then you just don't understand them. His early lyrics simply copied the style and phrasing of the beat poets -- nothing wrong with that, but let's not ascribe much originality to Dylan during that period. Many of his lyrics from 1966-1975 were just drug-inspired gibberish. To attempt to ascribe depth of meaning to them is either desperation or pretension. The fact of the matter is that there are many, many artists, ranging from folk to rock to electronic to hip hop, who have written and performed material equal to or better than Dylan's in the last couple of decades. And certainly, several of Dylan's own contemporaries were significantly better lyricists and musicians (notably Paul Simon and Joni Mitchell, to name but two). And just in case you're wondering, I am deeply familiar with Dylan's work, having gone through -- and thankfully emerged from -- a period of deep Dylan fandom earlier in my life.
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Well, it gets very subjective, obviously. Lyricists who have captured both optimism (the heaven) and world-weariness (the shit) far more poignantly and poetically than Dylan (IMHO) in the folk/singer/songwriter world include Suzanne Vega, Bruce Springsteen, Ryan Adams, Steve Forbert, Dar Williams, Tori Amos, and even -- in his prime -- Bruce Cockburn. (Okay, I know Springsteen is rock, but his lyrics are those of a folksinger!) Bob Dylan never wrote as deftly as Suzanne Vega - check these Vega lyrics from a song called "Soap and Water" in which she speaks to her children about their parents' divorce:
"Daddy's a dark riddle,
Momma's a head full of bees,
You are my little kite
Carried away in the wayward breeze."
Four simple lines that say so much.
But above all of these, I would argue, is the British artist Beth Orton. Many of her songs are simply beyond comparison. If you're interested, check out "Mount Washington," "The Stars All Seem to Weep," Paris Train," or "Stolen Car." Her lyrics are deceptively clever and powerful and her voice haunting and unforgettable. She started out in the small "folktronica" genre and has since veered more to acoustic stuff (but her upcoming new album is rumoured to be heavily electronic, which I anticipate with excitement).
Anyway, great discussion guys. I'm not normally this verbose, so forgive me!
Pretty much sums it up.
So many things come into play - Generation, musical tastes, personal life cycle, highs/lows, drugs, etc.
There is no best or most deserving lyricist - too many variables to take into consideration
Well I do not agree with a damned thing you have said! I like the fact that you at least put things forward.
I would say Bruce hasn't done anything great since 1978 with the exception of Nebraska and The Ghost of Tom Joad (I think TGoTJ may be the best thing he ever did). I think everyone you list has had "moments", but nowhere near Dylan. I also think Dylan did some great things since 1975 (at least six albums I would call great). Neil Young is the only current artist who has arguably a better catalog.