bluffing at no limit holdem
- Thread starter booboobear
- Start date
I didn't want to get involved in this part of the discussion, because as VBB stated, everyone has their 'system', and if it works for you, then that's all that needs to be said.jockeee said:
A friend of mine who is a very good poker player is fond of saying, "There is winning poker, and there is losing poker", and that's it. I believe there are any number of approaches that can be a winning style, the trick is to find the one that works to your natural strengths. Howard Lederer is never going to be a great reader of situations, yet he is a successful pro because he knows the math cold. Gus Hansen is fantastic at post-flop play, and at sniffing out weakness in his opponents--he is not a math whiz. I'm not saying Lederer sucks at reading situations or that Hansen sucks at the math, what I am saying is that they each have a natural tendency which they use to be successful.
My feeling about the math and pot odds is that it is necessary but not sufficient. If you have a good understanding of starting hand requirements, pot odds and outs, and rudimentary betting strategies, you will probably be better than 75% of the schlubs you meet at your average poker table. You will make money. But to be really good at the game, you have to learn how to read people and situations as well.
Never one to disagree with Homonger, I would like to add another requirement besides the math and the reading of people:
You have to be able to handle losing, because you will lose in around half of the plays. You need the mental toughness and confidence to not be affected by large losses, which are inevitable. If you don't lose some big pots you are not playing agressively enough. Personally, I will never be a great poker player because I hate to lose.
You have to be able to handle losing, because you will lose in around half of the plays. You need the mental toughness and confidence to not be affected by large losses, which are inevitable. If you don't lose some big pots you are not playing agressively enough. Personally, I will never be a great poker player because I hate to lose.
That is a great point, and while I am not a pro, it is even something I struggle with. When you are winning, you feel you are a genius, but when the converse inevitably happens, you wonder if you are just an idiot all in a sudden. Of course, you aren't, but you have to have the confidence to continue believing in yourself.danmand said:
I once read an article about Scott Fischman, a successful young pro. He was cited as having made 20 final tables one year, an impressive accomplishment. But it also said he played in over 200 tournaments, which means 90% of the time, he lost! You have to have a tough skin to play this game.
Hating to lose is not a bad quality in a person. I would say how one responds to losing, that's the key.
You are right of course, all players at a high professional level understands the pot odds and statistics without having to think much about it. And I did not think Homonger thought differently.Ranger68 said:
But you are wrong in assuming that EVERYONE understands the statistics. This thread is about advice to a novice, and when playing at low stakes tables in Ontario, most players do not understand or care about pot odds.
So understanding the statistics likely will give you enough of an edge to do well at these tables.
I agree, and never assumed (or stated that I did) that everyone does. But, to become a reasonable player, you need to learn these things. That's where it starts. If you go to a table without understanding them, you're just asking to lose.danmand said:
Ranger68 said:You think Gus Hansen is playing these hands BECAUSE HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE MATH?!?!
ROTFLMFAO
Oh, my. *wiping a tear from my eye*
Thanks, jock. I needed that.
no. he is playing those hands BECAUSE he understands the math. like i said .. its all about the %'s and the pot odds. he knows what they are from every position he plays. he knows the %'s and ODDS.
Sigh. I wish I had never gotten involved in this part of the discussion.Ranger68 said:
Anyway, you missed my point. I didn't say Gus Hansen didn't know the math. My point was that it is not the focal point of his style.
And my overall point was that different styles can be successful.
I once again find myself agreeing with danmand. I agree it is an overstatement to say EVERYONE understands pot odds and math, but it is all a matter of your vantage point. Once you get to a certain skill level and game, I do agree that is a given that everyone does. So you're both right.
All this talk has gotten me wondering... anyone here registered at PokerStars? We can continue the discussion on the virtual felt.
This is why I find THE interesting because there are so many variables one being the people you play against . Odds are another thing and betting a third thing and then the amount of the blinds changes peoples thinking. What you say about losing is also interesting , I was at Niagara on Sunday and a guy was walking around cursing out loud to himself , obviously he lost big and also should probably not be going to a casino. I appreciate all the input from everyone on this board. What I find real interesting is how some of the pros bluff with a fairly weak hand. I don't think there is any real way of telling how strong a hand someone else has if you are bluffing with a poor hand.homonger said:
Maybe you should reread the thread and see where you totally went off the rails.jockeee said:
When homonger said that Gus Hansen was "not a math wiz", I pointed out that it means NOTHING in the context of what we're talking about, and that he is, CERTAINLY, a math "wiz" when it comes to poker. (The fact that he possibly doesn't understand partial differential equations being moot, I hope we agree.)
Next?
lol Reading lessons for anyone who needs them .......
If you play tables ANYWHERE, you will find that most of those who sit down understand pot odds enough to get along. But, feel free to sit down without that knowledge. ...... It'd be like playing blackjack and not knowing whether to hit or stick with a hard 18.
lol
Ranger68 said:If you play tables ANYWHERE, you will find that most of those who sit down understand pot odds enough to get along. But, feel free to sit down without that knowledge. ...... It'd be like playing blackjack and not knowing whether to hit or stick with a hard 18.
lol
and like i said. you obviously havent played in vegas or atlantic city with all those wonderfull fish. pot odds and %'s baby.
i do notice from reading some of your other posts that you seem to be the only knowlegable one(well, self professed) here from a whole gammut of things from sports to recreational activities. how did this site get so lucky and find the one know-it -all in the world?
Ranger68 said:Yeah, okay. Sure.
lol
Enjoy losing money at poker, dude.
(Nice comeback, btw. lol)
if i lost i wouldnt be playing in vegas . couldnt afford to fly there. i would have to stick to niagra and their 2700 buy ins. by the way i didnt notice you there. with all your smarts shouldnt you have been a lock?
