Black people 'grossly overrepresented' in violent police interactions, OHC says

[basketcase]

Chicago as a case study.....

That shows that gun violence in Toronto is because police aren't allowed to randomly stop black people?

Wow. That is just stupid.



p.s. It's embarrassing that most American jurisdictions see randomly stopping cars for breathalyser tests is an unconstitutional, illegal invasion of privacy but have no problem with black people being randomly stopped.

 

[Butler1000]

Wait. Didn't you just admit that there is no way to justify Kirk's claims?

Sorry but he made the outright racist claim that 90% of criminals are black. That is absolute bullshit and deserves to be called out.


Actual data is hard to find but this dated study has blacks being just under 4% of the population serving time. Seems a bit off the 90% claimed.
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/research/r144-eng.shtml#LinkTarget_24681

Recent stats have Aboriginal people making up around 1/4 of the prison population.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2018001/article/54972-eng.htm


So now changing the target. His claim was 90% of crime. At best you could say just over half of people currently wanted for murder in Toronto are black; a very different thing.

Did you read my last sentence where I said his claim is extreme?

But by the same token there is an issue. Partly due to poverty. Partly due to racism.

But in the end committing a crime is a choice. A values judgement. So I think it's ok to ask why within a cultural community a higher incidence of crime occurs then the general populace.

It's not their skin colour, or their DNA. But what they believe, how they are raised, and what values are emphasized in their culture are factors. Big ones.

 

[basketcase]

...
But in the end committing a crime is a choice. A values judgement.
...
It's not their skin colour, or their DNA. But what they believe, how they are raised, and what values are emphasized in their culture are factors. Big ones.

Why do you think blacks have less morals?

If you want to discuss why black people are well represented in wanted murderers then I'd be willing but to. On the other hand the claim that blacks commit more crime than anyone else is just plain racist (and implying it is a moral failure amongst blacks is just digging that hole deeper).


You also might want to examine your point of view. You are suggesting that there is a commonality amongst black murder suspects even though it is quite easy to identify the very different backgrounds of the people on the wanted list. Based on names, some of them are quite obviously North-East African (such as Somali), a few are very Americanized names, and one is a central African (Nigerian?) name. Those are VASTLY different cultures but the fact you want to lump them all into the same group is sad.

p.s. At least one if not two of the 20 "Black" people on the list sure seems to be South Asian and not Black.

 

[K Douglas]

So I looked at the data available which shows the deadly encounters between the TPS and the public. From 2000-2017 inclusive. 52 incidents over 18 years. That's less than 3 per year. A remarkably low number given the amount of police encounters on a daily basis. For this we should be commending our officers for a job well done. Not fanning the flames of racism like the OHRC is presently doing.

So digging into the data this is what I came up with. Out of 52 deadly encounters the racial breakdown was as follows:

African American - 19 (36%)
Caucasian - 17 (33%)
Asian - 3 (6%)
Latin American - 2 (4%)
Aboriginal - 1 (2%)
Southeast Asian* - 1 (2%)
Arab/Middle Eastern - 1 (2%)
Unknown - 8 (15%)
*includes Filipino

-->Of the 8 that are classified as "unknown" 4 we have not enough data to make any determination. Of the remaining 4 looking at the names and the circumstances my educated guess would be 3 Caucasian and 1 African American. But we'll keep them as unknown for purposes of this analysis.
-->Of the 19 blacks that were killed by an officer, 17 were shot. Of the 17 whites that were killed by an officer, 10 were shot.
-->Per the 2016 Census, blacks make up 8.9% of Toronto's population. Whites make up 47.7%. Asian 13.1%. Southeast Asian 19.8%. Hispanic 2.9%. Aboriginal 0.9%. Arab/ME 3.5%.
-->Given that there is no doubt blacks make up a disproportionate amount of the total and are over represented by a whopping 380%. Similarly, whites are under-represented by about 30%. Asians under represented by 54%. Aboriginals over represented by 50%. Arab/Middle Eastern under
represented by 80% and Southeast Asians under represented by 930%! Seems those racist Toronto cops are treating the East Indians with kid gloves. Soon they will be calling it Southeast Asian privilege

The only way to tell if there is true implicit bias in the way cops deal with black suspects is to look at the breakdown of the total number of interactions between the police and the various races. My suspicion is the interaction between police and blacks is likely higher than the 36% deadly encounter rate. That should give the OHRC the answer they need.

 

[K Douglas]

That shows that gun violence in Toronto is because police aren't allowed to randomly stop black people?

Wow. That is just stupid.



p.s. It's embarrassing that most American jurisdictions see randomly stopping cars for breathalyser tests is an unconstitutional, illegal invasion of privacy but have no problem with black people being randomly stopped.

No it's because they aren't allowed to do their jobs with full effectiveness. Remember only 25% of those carded are black. It's not like the TPS was just randomly stopping people on a whim. They were doing so when people were acting or looking suspicious. Maybe you should talk to some police officers to get enlightened about what carding means and how effective a tool it has been in getting criminals off the streets.

 

[onthebottom]

Wow. You have proved that a large number of VICTIMS are black. How does that support your asinine claims that 90% of criminals are black?

See post 36

 

[onthebottom]

Wow. You have proved that a large number of VICTIMS are black. How does that support your asinine claims that 90% of criminals are black?

It is extreme, it wouldn’t be extreme to say that blacks are grossly over represented as criminals.

 

[Darts]

Subject is too sensitive for adults to discuss.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/08/17/a-thorny-history-of-race-based-statistics.html

 

[Butler1000]

Why do you think blacks have less morals?

If you want to discuss why black people are well represented in wanted murderers then I'd be willing but to. On the other hand the claim that blacks commit more crime than anyone else is just plain racist (and implying it is a moral failure amongst blacks is just digging that hole deeper).


You also might want to examine your point of view. You are suggesting that there is a commonality amongst black murder suspects even though it is quite easy to identify the very different backgrounds of the people on the wanted list. Based on names, some of them are quite obviously North-East African (such as Somali), a few are very Americanized names, and one is a central African (Nigerian?) name. Those are VASTLY different cultures but the fact you want to lump them all into the same group is sad.

p.s. At least one if not two of the 20 "Black" people on the list sure seems to be South Asian and not Black.

Again. I didn't say "blacks" I said certain black cultures.

Nigerians are well known for scams.

Jamaicans for Drug Dealing and Violence.

Somali , well when you come from a complete societal breakdown just about everything.

On the other end Trini, Bermudian, Kenyans all don't have these issues.

It's the culture.

 

[onthebottom]

Subject is too sensitive for adults to discuss.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/08/17/a-thorny-history-of-race-based-statistics.html

Silly and cowardly.

You can’t manage what you can’t measure.

 

[fluffy]

Pretty much yes. I won't use skin colour as a marker.

North American glorification of "gangsta" culture, which is preimminently coming from the black community is an issue.

But the adoption of that culture is voluntary. It isn't about DNA.

I disagree. Genetics have some effect in determining intelligence and behavior. Probably more than most people are willing to admit. I know we are not supposed to talk about this, but if you allow yourself to consider this idea, it explains a lot of what is going on in a more straightforward way, without the usual blather about racism, culture, poverty.

 

[Darts]

I disagree. Genetics have some effect in determining intelligence and behavior. Probably more than most people are willing to admit. I know we are not supposed to talk about this, but if you allow yourself to consider this idea, it explains a lot of what is going on in a more straightforward way, without the usual blather about racism, culture, poverty.

A short while back one of our members actually had the gall to ask why there are no 1st (or even 2nd) world countries in Africa. We don't talk about such things because it is an uncomfortable subject (also not politically correct).

 

[basketcase]

No it's because they aren't allowed to do their jobs with full effectiveness.....

Again you promote opinion without facts.

And yes, carding is specifically stopping people without legal cause.

 

[basketcase]

See post 36

Which says nothing about crime in general. As I said to butler, if you want to discuss the racial/ethnic demographics of murder cases in Toronto then you would have a valid claim that around half of those wanted are black. But it in no way supports fucked up claim that blacks are responsible for 90% of crime.

 

[basketcase]

Again. I didn't say "blacks" I said certain black cultures.

Nigerians are well known for scams.

Jamaicans for Drug Dealing and Violence.

Somali , well when you come from a complete societal breakdown just about everything.

On the other end Trini, Bermudian, Kenyans all don't have these issues.

It's the culture.

And "whites" are known for corporate crime, meth production, paedophilia, hate crimes, .....

Again, your stereotypes don't support redneck James' claim that blacks are responsible for 90% of crime. Fact is in Canada, blacks represent less than 4% of the criminal population.