Massage Adagio

"bitching" about prices....

moomoo said:
The picture is going to be different if we go to our boss and said;"since I am doing such a good job for the money, I would like to increase my hourly rate from , let say, $20 an hour to $40 an hour". Honestly, gentlemen, what do you think your boss will say to you?
I've been to my boss and said essentially that.

Got the money, too.
Originally posted by tboy
As for your pricing comparison, here's an actual screnario for you:

Client 1: been with the company for over 10 yrs, for a total sales of over 10 million cdn. With an average gross margin of 50% that means my gross profit is about $250,000.00.

Client 2: Been with the company for 1 yr. with total sales of $100.000.00 with a gross margin of 100% which equates to a profit of about $50,000.00. They only did 1 project with us and are now gone.

Which client would YOU want?
I dunno. There's not enough information. Are the clients mutually exclusive? Am I obliged to charge them the same price? Am I guaranteed to keep Client 1 for as long as I want him? How much of my business is dependent upon Client 1 - do I have enough 'bread and butter' clients to keep me afloat if I lose him?

There is never enough information, there is always room for doubt, there are always office rivals who will criticize your decision no matter what it is, there are always wanna-be clients who badmouth your service and prices and there will always be Royal Commissions that investigate price-fixing.

Quite frankly, I don't think there is a single person in Canada with a responsible job that includes setting pricing who will be audacious enough to criticize an escort's pricing policy based solely on the information that will ever come out on TERB.
Originally posted by Average Joe
Some people call it greed, I call it good business sense.
Agreed. Or should I say, "A Greed"?

Some escorts will get it right, some will make mistakes ... some are selling the shower gel of basic sex and some are selling the Chanel #5 of the aura of upscale exclusivity.

There's a supply curve and a demand curve and I'm in this hobby because I like other kinds of curves.
 

Ophelia Black

Hey! Nice tits!
Sep 4, 2003
218
0
0
Vancouver
www.opheliablack.com
How come nobody ever mentions the idea of 'danger pay' in these discussions?

I could be wrong, but I think the risk of getting beat up, raped, or murdered in the average office is somewhat lower than the risks inherent in sexwork.

Pickton. Ridgeway. Bakker.

Of course, being from Vancouver, I guess I'm jaded or something, but I find it an interesting 'elephant in the room'.

In a perfect world, convenience store clerks and cab drivers would be earning even more than I am...but get over this whole hourly rate comparison crap unless you are willing to acknowledge that most women won't willingly do my job because they are afraid.

That's what I get the big bucks for - being afraid, but doing it anyways, the same way some folks work offshore oil rigs, cap gas blowouts, or work high steel.

Be happy we're here at all.
 

train

New member
Jul 29, 2002
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tboy said:
Not only was I very pleasantly surprised and had a wonderful time, but it was one of the best sessions I have ever had. Considering that I could easily afford an evening with her, for the same rate as an hour with someone else, and have an even more wonderful time, why spend the $$ needlessly?
From a client standpoint there obviously doesn't seem to be a problem as there seems to be plenty of choice in the price range that is attractive .

The micro-economic discussions notwithstanding , why even bother speculating why any individual change in price structure is made . Suffice it to say that the lady made a decision that she thought was right for her ( for whatever reason ) and only time will tell whether it works out as she planned .

The market place is not a perfect model where theory and logic always apply when individual situations are examined but it works out fairly well overall and over time .
 

Annessa

Banned
Jul 30, 2003
972
0
0
Denial

*pause* *breathe* *pause*


Let's break it down to the basics cause we're all mature enough to understand whats going on.

A woman has precious sacred parts of themselves PERIOD, and a woman's sexuality is a HUGE precious part. So... if it is possible for the gentlemen for the next 5 minutes, I'll even take 1 minutes to understand the physical, mental or emotional disfunctions that comes from SELLING YOUR SEX FOR MONEY pehaps for the first time ever since you began 'hobbing' understand just how much this all takes.

I'm not intrested in people trying to tell me that 'if it's doing damage then get out' or 'I don't feel that way about working' or 'it's about greed' because the scarest things you have to worry about are those triggers that you have implanted subconciously because at some point, EVERY SP will break at some point, at some time.

Ponder something for a moment, that perhaps there are women in this business that HAVE to work this (pay scaled) job because none of the other 50+ full-time jobs (over the last 5 years) could never come close to covering the living expenses. So your forced to work a job you HATE so much but 'God for bid' if your to tell a client that or let any potential clients think that because you'll get no work.... 'you don't love getting fucked?' ... 'what turns you on baby'? The ladies just smile and keep putting on more lipstick.


Think about the unthinkable on a daily basis. Sounds fun.



Annessa
xoxo
 

gala

New member
Sep 9, 2002
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Annessa... the price paid in this market is not determined by how badly you feel about what you are doing... it's determined by how many other people are willing to sell the same thing for less...

And even though you said not to say it, from the sounds of things it seems like maybe this is not such a good fit for you, and you should spend some time evaluating whether those "living expenses" are worth the price you're paying for for them. It's not every SP that hates her job like you say you do. Not everybody thinks their sexuality is a "huge precious part" and that selling it is a horrible thing; there's nothing wrong with thinking that, but it's a little incongruous with what you are doing.
 

train

New member
Jul 29, 2002
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Re: Denial

Annessa said:
[B I'll even take 1 minutes to understand the physical, mental or emotional disfunctions that comes from SELLING YOUR SEX FOR MONEY pehaps for the first time ever since you began 'hobbing' understand just how much this all takes.

.......because at some point, EVERY SP will break at some point, at some time.

.......So your forced to work a job you HATE so much but 'God for bid' if your to tell a client that or let any potential clients think that because you'll get no work

Annessa
xoxo [/B]
Now I'm depressed ........

You are right I would never hire someone who I knew hated what they were doing for any job , anywhere at any price .

I think everyone understands that it can be a very difficult job .....but so are many others . While the degree of difficulty does affect price by limiting supply it is the demand side which perhaps affects price more in individual situations .

Independent's should set prices at what works for them , end of story .
 

booboobear

New member
Aug 20, 2003
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Re: Denial

Annessa said:
*pause* *breathe* *pause*


Let's break it down to the basics cause we're all mature enough to understand whats going on.

.


Ponder something for a moment, that perhaps there are women in this business that HAVE to work this (pay scaled) job because none of the other 50+ full-time jobs (over the last 5 years) could never come close to covering the living expenses. So your forced to work a job you HATE so much .


Think about the unthinkable on a daily basis. Sounds fun.

I,m sorry you feel that way. Nobody , however forced you to be an sp. Some people work 2 jobs to make ends meet. It's very unfortunate but society really doesn't help the less well off.
Think about this if a man is not making enough money and can't be an sp what does he do for extra money.



Annessa
xoxo
 

Serenity

A Sesnual Courtesan
Dec 11, 2003
16
0
0
Toronto
www.serenityforyou.com
I see both sides of the argument...

Well to be honest I see both sides of the argument - and really both sides have to be respected.

Many have asked my why my rates as an indie are LOWER them when I worked at hollywood. Well here is what I think on the issue of pricing:

For starters, I like my clientele! It doesn't feel like I'm working when I'm with one of my regulars because I'm actually having fun. Going to see a regular for a booking is a nice break from studying - I have fun with him for a few hours, and feel refueled and ready to tackle the books again. However, many of my clients aren't very wealthy. They have other responsibilities to take care of, like family. To be honest, I would rather my regulars were able to book me more often or for longer dates (sometimes both), then make more and see them less. Many of my regulars don't just want a one hour run at things. Sometimes you want to put some music on and slow dance together, a candle lit dinner, or even going out - sometimes just cuddling and talking. Others want just one hour of fun, but book women more frequently. Everyone experiences a date differently, and I want to give clientes the flexibility to experience it in any way they like. I love experiencing my client as an actually DATE, not just a client. I could raise my rates, and I know most of them would call me anyway - but we couldn't have the kind of time we have now. And I would have to depend more on getting new clientele. Though I am always looking for another person I can add to may favorites list, I don't want to loose the people that are already on it!

Second, I'm not in this business to get rich. I want to pay for school while being able to really study - and a normal job can't do that for me. Working in retail or as a waitress would demand more time - and I see my fellow students burn out all the time. People do burn out in the Escorting world - which is why some raise rates. Everyone just needs to find a system that works for them. And when it comes to a point that you need to take some time off, TAKE IT OFF! Even if it means canceling a booking - just explain to them why you can't make it. Men pay good money on a date, and its not right if we show up, angry, depressed or tired. They want someone eager to spend time with them. If we can't provide that, whatever the reason, tell them so they have the opportunity to book someone. Just be honest, and 90% of the time they will understand. The 10% that DON'T probably wouldn't make very good regulars anyway. But of course, you can't cancel a call just because an old friend called you up and you want to go out. Respect the fact that a client took time off, probably spent money to get a room, and was really looking forward to meeting you. But when you have good reason not to go - give them as much notice as possible and things should work out well for everyone.

However, I think its also understandable why some women do charge $300 an hour. If someone is established in this business, and is viewing escorting as a long term career there are a number of reasons their prices are high. For starters, advertising and independent driver services are quite pricey. Even if someone uses their own car - they put a lot of strain on it. There are repairs, gas and maintenance to consider. Phone bills are often high because a lot of minutes are used in the day or making long distance calls with people to set up a meeting. Usually women depend on tips to cover the difference - but not everyone tips, and lets face it - NO ONE HAS TO TIP. That is a matter of personal choice and there shouldn't be any pressure on the clientele to do so if they do not wish to. Nor does it mean he appreciates her services any less - he may simply fall into the category of people who have to save up just for one booking. Rather then tip, some people save that money to put it towards the next booking.

A well established woman might have a long list of clientele, and she's overworking herself trying to keep them all happy. It may not be to keep undesirables out - but to simply lessen the number of bookings she gets, so that she doesn't burn out. Just because she's raised her prices doesn't mean she's making more money! She may very well lessen the number of people she sees, and in the end make about the same amount of money.

And there are some women that just want to make more money! And who's to tell them they don't have the right? If they have enough clients willing to pay that much to see them - then good for them and we should all give them our best wishes. Its a matter of personal choice. And part of the reason women go independent is so that they HAVE that freedom if they want to use it!

Well those are my thoughts on the matter! Sorry it was such a long read!
 

booboobear

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Aug 20, 2003
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Re: I see both sides of the argument...

Serenity said:
Well to be honest I see both sides of the argument - and really both sides have to be respected.

Many have asked my why my rates as an indie are LOWER them when I worked at hollywood. Well here is what I think on the issue of pricing:

, I think its also understandable why some women do charge $300 an hour.
A well established woman might have a long list of clientele, and she's overworking herself trying to keep them all happy. .

And there are some women that just want to make more money! And who's to tell them they don't have the right?

Well those are my thoughts on the matter! Sorry it was such a long read!
I think your post was well thought out . It's actually nice to see someone say they like the time spent as an sp.

I understand what you charge and I think you are reasonable.

Sometimes an sp who thinks she is better looking than the average might charge 300 and up an hour.

I don't agree with this and like you said some women just want to make more money. As long as some men are willing to pay $ 300 - $ 500 per hr some sp will charge that.


I find that what an sp charges doesn't make her better .
Some of the more liberal and fun sp's sometimes are the ones that don't charge that much.

Keep your healthy attitude it's refreshing. By the way how old are you.
 

Mrs_Stiffler

Personal Sex Therapist
Mar 6, 2003
380
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Toronto
ca.geocities.com
I love Serenity's attitude. And it is one that I share. I've worked at higher hourly rates, and now I keep the rates lower, without time limits, to maximize my enjoyment. I love what I do. It is a secondary income and so I limit myself to two clients per week, at the 4 hour buffet rate. I like to think that I have as much fun as they do. I price myself according to what I would make going out to work for a day, although I am staying home to wait for that one sexy gent to join me. I want to be assured of two clients per week, which is easy at the lower rate, thereby enabling me to work part-time elsewhere and have my erotic fun as well. For me it provides the necessary extra income for a single mom, and fulfills my personal needs as a single and very horny woman, who doesn't want anything serious or ongoing at the moment. I'm living out all my wildest erotic fantasies and those experiences will come with me into my next serious relationship. Until then, it continues to be a complete turn-on for me - meeting complete strangers just for sex.
 

Nibbler

Love to nibble on nipples
Jan 28, 2003
473
0
0
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Serenity, very very well said.

I also second booboobear's suggestion to make sure to keep your healthy attitude. It is very refreshing and it is an attitude that is hopefully catching on more and more to other SP's and clients alike.

Just as side comment; whenever I read reviews I attempt to read between the lines to figure out if the SP truly does enjoy spending time with her clients or is it just another job. Obviously I try to avoid the latter and hope to find more of the former.
 

TheNiteHwk

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Aug 22, 2001
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Well said Serenity...

I like what you have to say... and you express it so well.

Now tell Marshall Stack to hurry up and to to fix your website. Now that I know what a great mind and spirit you have... I just gotta see your website. (no I have not seen it yet... please forgive me)
 
Jan 7, 2003
596
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0
Toronto
www.ra-media.org
Unfortunately, there's a raging thunderstorm going on in Southern Florida that's knocked out the power. My host is scrambling to set up the back up power supply but until then, we're unfortunately down.:(

This is affecting a lot of major porn sites as well. Mike South has been knocked down by the storm among a few notables from what I can see.

But anyway, back to the original programming. This is a very insightful thread!
 

bobistheowl

New member
Jul 12, 2003
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We just have to look at SC dance prices to see the cause and effect relationship.

For at least fifteen years, air dances on boxes were $5, and nothing else was available. Most dancers were fairly busy, and the best were monopolized for extended periods, because their time was considered more valuable than $5 per song. There was also a lot of good looking local talent comfortable with 'look but not touch'.

Around 1991/92, a few ladies, then known as 'cheaters', began to offer extras, or offer the choice of the $5 or $10 dance. This initially caused a lot of friction with those who were adverse to physical contact during the dances, but given the choice, many if not most guys were willing to pay the extra $5 for the enhanced experience.

Shortly thereafter, the air dances pretty well disappeared, and those who chose not to adapt left the business, and there weren't a lot of locals willing to fill the void, hence the emergence of the Latina and EE dancers in the mid 90's, who were willing to do a job that most Canadian women weren't.

The problems for SCs began when lap dancing restrictions came in around the same time as a 100% increase in the price of dances. Most people have a limited budget for frivilous carnal expenditures, and pay raises are usually eaten up by increases to required living expenses. For a lot of guys, myself included, paying twice as much for a less satisfying time doesn't make a lot a sense, so SC business drops, the better quality dancers move on to, (we hope), bigger, and better things, and a lot of the slots are filled by women who aren't worth $10 a song, much less $20.

There are still dancers whose company is worth $20 a song, but not very many. There are quite a few who are worth $10 a song, but not $20, and their income suffers because supply exceeds demand. There are a whole lot who are worth less than $10 a song, and they usually spend most of their shift bothering patrons who are waiting for someone else.

With SPs, we have a variety of rates, dependent on appearance, reputation, services offered, popularity, chutzpah, and the amount of money they deem to be sufficient in order to perform certain acts with a stranger. That will always vary from woman to woman.

If someone can get $300 an hour for her companionship often enough to satisfy her financial needs, then more power to her. She owes nothing to the guy who has only $150 to spend. If everyone's price went to $300 an hour, some would still be busy, and others would need to get a second or an alternative job. Fewer trysts would occur, because the total amount of income for hobbying is fairly constant, and that amount drops when the price of the service exceeds its' value. People find other things to do or buy with their discetionary earnings.
 

Serenity

A Sesnual Courtesan
Dec 11, 2003
16
0
0
Toronto
www.serenityforyou.com
Happy to share!

I'm always happy to share my thoughts - sometimes too happy. I had to shorten that post quite a bit cause terb only allows 5000 characters hehehehe...

Thanks for the positive feedback everyone! Its nice to feel appreciated

Oh and I'm 20 years old.

Before anyone says it, YES I KNOW I'M YOUNG! :)

And as Marshal pointed out, my site is back up. And before someone asks, those new pictures I was talking about are coming! I just have to get a free evening to do them!
 

Ophelia Black

Hey! Nice tits!
Sep 4, 2003
218
0
0
Vancouver
www.opheliablack.com
Getting into the business was the best decision of my life - I never fit into the office world, hate restaurant work, and cannot work 8 hours a day because I get hardcore migraines unless I have frequent breaks to move around, relax, and try not to hate my pointless and badly paid job.

Everything that was a minus in regular work became a plus in my courtesan career - I love new people, new places, can talk to anyone about virtually everything, and various dusty academic bits like art school, web design, computer geekitude and my writing skills became valuable and benefited not some schmuck boss, but rather me, myself and I! Plus, I rock in the sack...hmmmm...actually, that had a tendency to benefit me in regular jobs as well...hee hee!

Even some of the darker things became positive - I have chronic PTSD which means I am hyper-aware of what's going on around me at all times, and am able to read people and guess their next actions very well. In the regular world that can be stressful and make you feel crappy about being 'paranoid' - in this world it's got my back, and I feel lucky to have it.

Life is short, and no one is normal. For me this works very well - and I hope others are as lucky to find their calling.

I'm in this for the long run.
 

Annessa

Banned
Jul 30, 2003
972
0
0
gala said:
Annessa... the price paid in this market is not determined by how badly you feel about what you are doing... it's determined by how many other people are willing to sell the same thing for less...

And even though you said not to say it, from the sounds of things it seems like maybe this is not such a good fit for you, and you should spend some time evaluating whether those "living expenses" are worth the price you're paying for for them. It's not every SP that hates her job like you say you do. Not everybody thinks their sexuality is a "huge precious part" and that selling it is a horrible thing; there's nothing wrong with thinking that, but it's a little incongruous with what you are doing.

I'm not speaking from my own personal feelings but from the number of woman I have councelled (and still councel) that have either worked in the past (in the adult industry) or currently are and what they are saying and feeling.

Their theme is rather common and it's a silent unspoken realization for most of them until at some point something triggers and a whole new feeling or perception comes along with it.

I'm speaking from facts because I'm on the front lines... are you? I think not.


~*~*~

Now, as for myself.
I've been in and out of this industry for 9 years so your talking to a very experienced and intelligent woman in many ways.

I've had the most amazing gentleman as clients over the years and for that I'm blessed, it makes me enjoy my job more but I've also had the worst human beings as a few clients as well and that made me hate my job.
However, the person I am today is an amazing person and I know my 'job' had a part in that.

IF I hated my job that much then I would get out, but I don't and it's also easier said then done.



All the best,
Annessa
 

Snook.fr

My new Handle.....
Apr 28, 2002
1,398
1
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goal.com
Ophelia Black said:
I am hyper-aware of what's going on around me at all times, and am able to read people and guess their next actions very well.
Damn I could definately use some of those Skills you refer To......
:D
 

booboobear

New member
Aug 20, 2003
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Ophelia Black said:
Getting into the business was the best decision of my life


Life is short, and no one is normal. For me this works very well - and I hope others are as lucky to find their calling.

I'm in this for the long run.

Good luck , keep smiling .

I agree that some of the low paying jobs ( and a lot exist out there ) are mindless and un rewarding.

You are absolutely right , no one is normal . My only comment is save money while you can in case you want to quit and maybe have a normal relationship.
 
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