Best small/medium SUV?

[goodtime]

Bend physic

You are trying to bend physics. The SUV will always win over Smart or many other regular cars due to weight and higher ride.

check this:

http://www.suv.org/safety.html
...

Guess you're sucked into the American bigger foolishness, for the gas and buy from big 3...

Hm, let's see.
1) Taking advice from a SUV advocate site. Like Tobacco company telling us they've nothing to do with Lung cancer.
2) Smart car weren't around when these stats were taken

There must be a reason they're so popular in Europe. Not like they are giving them away. And MB don't risk their reputation on unsafe products.

You may want to look at:
http://www.wheels.ca/files/Safety_coupe_ENG.pdf
http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/mbccustom/smart/safety/event_release.cfm
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/101361/article.html
http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/daimlerchrysler/smart/smart-trident/smart-trident-01.htm
http://www.motortrader.com.my/NUS/articles/0/article_126/page_m_sub4.asp
http://www.motoring.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=864&fArticleId=232249
http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,12367090%5E27286,00.html
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050114.003/page/3/lang/eng/smart/1.html

Guess they don't have Semis in these countries, so the Fortwo of Forfour not likely to crash into one so not safety concern.

 

[Meister]

Guess you're sucked into the American bigger foolishness, for the gas and buy from big 3...

Hm, let's see.
1) Taking advice from a SUV advocate site. Like Tobacco company telling us they've nothing to do with Lung cancer.
2) Smart car weren't around when these stats were taken

There must be a reason they're so popular in Europe. Not like they are giving them away. And MB don't risk their reputation on unsafe products.

Have you heard of objectivity?

1) I said before I am not a fan of SUVs, I don't have one, never did, never will. My sedan happens to be German.
2) The same "SUV advocate" site talks about rollover concerns as a major safety problem and goes on to say a high number of deaths is contributed to that
3) The reason they are popular in Europe is:
- gas mileage
- tiny parking spots
- cool factor
- lower insurance/taxes due to engine size
4) Reputable Mercedes Benz had a major rollover problem with the first A series
5) The Smart Car is safe in its class, but it has its limitation in protecting you like any other small, lightweight car
6) Ford Expedition 5689 LB, Smart Car 1588 lbs

The kicker is, Smart is coming out with an SUV for the North American Market, no joke.

 

[Doctor Zoidburg]

Honda CR-V

Good gas mileage, good re-sale price1998 molels still retail for $15,000, looks nice. What more do you want.

 

[polisci]

/

A good friend of mine used to be a Saturn tech. He liked almost all the Saturn vehicles, even the ones that were poorly reviewed by car magazines like the Ion and the discontinued 300, but one Saturn he said he'd never buy was the Vue.

I just got a Vue

 

[goodtime]

Smart

Have you heard of objectivity?
...
3) The reason they are popular in Europe is:
- gas mileage
- tiny parking spots
- cool factor
- lower insurance/taxes due to engine size
...
6) Ford Expedition 5689 LB, Smart Car 1588 lbs

The kicker is, Smart is coming out with an SUV for the North American Market, no joke.

Meister, I'm somewhat passionate about cars, as you can tell.
Know all about the Smart 4x4, seen it in Europe, very nice.
U.S. Smart is losing money. MB considering getting out. Plans for the Smart SUV model to Canada is delayed as profit below expected.
3) Actually, Safety is their primary target. Again, from recent Europe visits.
6) Weight/Size are not full equation. A relative drove Mazda Miata, crashed between 2 Semi like a sandwich and not a scratch on her. Miata is just sheet metal. Design objective is for the vehicle to absorb the impact, not its occupants. In Germany, they crash Smart cars into Cement walls as demo. Btw, the car exterior is designed by Smart watch company for its cute look.

In terms of big SUV, the engine & weight becomes your enemy as it lands on one's lap. Hope you won't have any need for your feet or there is a jaw of life nearby.

 

[Meister]

3) Actually, Safety is their primary target. Again, from recent Europe visits.

That's the Smart Company's target. However, people buy it for factors listed above, fuel, insurance.... If people would really be super safe conscious they would buy a Volvo.

 

[Timbit]

Subaru

I'm on my fourth Subaru - each one better than the last. No way would I want anything else when I'm looking for a combination of ride, all-whell drive, looks and fuel economy. Plus the 2005 Legacy GT is faster than a 2004 Porsche Boxster...

Timbit

 

[Meister]

Plus the 2005 Legacy GT is faster than a 2004 Porsche Boxster...

People don't buy Boxster for speed. It's mid life crisis guys crawling along Yorkville.

 

[DateMasamune]

People don't buy Boxster for speed. It's mid life crisis guys crawling along Yorkville.

But they do buy the Boxster S for speed ... hehe ...

Secondly, just because one buys a convertible, it doesn't mean they have a mid life crisis. As a matter of fact, for my next car, I am thinking about getting a convertible ... perhaps the new 2006 Miata when my insurance rates goes down ...

 

[RogerRabbit]

Buy the 330. The base price of a 400 is $12,000 more than a 330. You'll never drive enough miles in your lifetime to save this extra price in gas costs. And they are an unproven technology when it comes to longevity. Go ask a Lexus dealer what a replacement battery pack costs. Hybrids are just a gimmick whose lifetime will be short.

GM, Toyota, Ford, DC, Honda don't think they are 'gimmicks';

http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/13/toyota-prius-hybrid-cx_cn_0913autofacescan07.html


Toyota's Watanabe Seeks To Cut Premium On Hybrid Cars
Chris Noon, 09.13.05, 1:55 PM ET

Katsuaki Watanabe, Toyota Motor's president, is aiming to close the price gap between hybrid vehicles and conventional gas-powered cars in the wake of the recent spike in oil prices.

Watanabe told investors in New York that the Japanese company planned on halving the gap between the respective production and development costs of the two types of vehicles as soon as possible: "We would like to lower overall costs for hybrid cars so that more people can afford them," he explained.

The company's hybrid cars presently cost 500,000 yen--around $4,500--more than its "normal" gas-guzzling vehicles. Calculate separately the cost-benefit of each vehicle to the environment: The Prius emits 50% less carbon dioxide than a similar gas-engine car.

Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people )has so far sold 367,000 Priuses worldwide with sales in Japan accounting for 44% and North America much of the remainder. The company aims to sell one million hybrid vehicles worldwide by 2010, and interest in the cars should be growing post-Katrina.


http://www.hybridcars.com/news/news.php?news_id=433

 

[goodtime]

That's the Smart Company's target. However, people buy it for factors listed above, fuel, insurance.... If people would really be super safe conscious they would buy a Volvo.

Again, more armchair view. Have you even step into their showroom? Talk to potential owners?

Should count how many new Volvos end up in the ditch on way to ski hill. While Sweden gets as much snow as Canada.

News for you, driving behaviour is perhaps bigger factor than how safe the vehicle is. People with special driver training can out-drive others in 'safer' cars. But you would know this if accumlated enough real-life experience to comment and not read about it in the news. Goodtime being objective here.

 

[ham2004]

Its not the vehicle, its the driver

Pro-SUV or Anti-SUV, the real question is what are you comfortable with.

I like the big trucks, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, the imports, the bigger the better, but than again I tow trailers, been known to hookup to a car trailer or two, so I need the power. Tried the pickup route, not enough people room, and too much wasted space in the back.

Others like the smaller SUV's practical, ecomonical, senseable. Its the driver that must make the choice..

Best idea, any SUV you are considering buying, RENT it for a weekend, at the end of that time, you will know.. if you like it. THAN do the Buyers Guide route, but try it first before you waste your time....

 

[Meister]

Again, more armchair view. Have you even step into their showroom? Talk to potential owners?

Should count how many new Volvos end up in the ditch on way to ski hill. While Sweden gets as much snow as Canada.

News for you, driving behaviour is perhaps bigger factor than how safe the vehicle is. People with special driver training can out-drive others in 'safer' cars. But you would know this if accumlated enough real-life experience to comment and not read about it in the news. Goodtime being objective here.

That's like saying it's not really that important if motorcyclists wear a helmet because if they would ride more responsibly and learn how to avoid objects they would be much safer. Or, how about doing away with snow tires because if we all drove slow enough it would be much safer.

Guess what, I have ESP on my car for the very reason you described. But, it doesn't protect you when a crash occurs.

btw:

How safe is your car?
Smart
Adult occupant rating 3 of 5
Test Scores: Front 7 (44%) Side 15 (83%) Overall 22 (65%)

Volvo S40 (their smallest one)
Adult occupant rating 5 of 5
Test Scores: Front 13 (81%) Side 18 (100%) Overall 34

from European New Car Assessment Programme

 

[Berlin]

Btw, the car exterior is designed by Smart watch company for its cute look.

Swatch, that is.

It's refreshing that you are not refering to yourself in the third person in all your posts.

 

[Why Not?]

GM, Toyota, Ford, DC, Honda don't think they are 'gimmicks';

http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/13/toyota-prius-hybrid-cx_cn_0913autofacescan07.html


Toyota's Watanabe Seeks To Cut Premium On Hybrid Cars
Chris Noon, 09.13.05, 1:55 PM ET

Katsuaki Watanabe, Toyota Motor's president, is aiming to close the price gap between hybrid vehicles and conventional gas-powered cars in the wake of the recent spike in oil prices.

Watanabe told investors in New York that the Japanese company planned on halving the gap between the respective production and development costs of the two types of vehicles as soon as possible: "We would like to lower overall costs for hybrid cars so that more people can afford them," he explained.

The company's hybrid cars presently cost 500,000 yen--around $4,500--more than its "normal" gas-guzzling vehicles. Calculate separately the cost-benefit of each vehicle to the environment: The Prius emits 50% less carbon dioxide than a similar gas-engine car.

Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people )has so far sold 367,000 Priuses worldwide with sales in Japan accounting for 44% and North America much of the remainder. The company aims to sell one million hybrid vehicles worldwide by 2010, and interest in the cars should be growing post-Katrina.


http://www.hybridcars.com/news/news.php?news_id=433

Well what else are they going to say? They are trying to sell you one and get back the billions in development $ they spent. The fact is that right now there is a $CDN12,000 difference in the base price of the RX 330 and RX 400 and that is what my advice was based on. According to the Lexus Canada website the fuel consumption for the two is a follows (city/highway):

Rx 330 12.8/9.0 (l/100 km)
Rx 400 7.5/8.1 (l/100 km)
Difference 5.3/0.9 (l/100 km)

The average combined fuel savings assuming a 50:50 split between city and highway driving would be 3.1 l/100 km. At a fuel price of $1.00 per litre you would need to drive nearly 390,000 km to get back the extra $12,000 you spent on the RX400. And this analysis ignores the time value of money as the $12,000 must be paid up front and the cost of the extra fuel is paid out slowly over years.

At this time they don't make economic sense and the price of fuel is going to have to go way up or their cost drop enormously to have them make sense.

Also you still haven't covered the topic of cost of replacing the battery. How long is its life? I hear that the replacement cost will be in the thousands of dollars. And the scrapped batteries are an envornmental hazard full of toxic heavy metals. Sound like a good deal to you?

 

[RogerRabbit]

why not do your research first!

Well what else are they going to say? They are trying to sell you one and get back the billions in development $ they spent. The fact is that right now there is a $CDN12,000 difference in the base price of the RX 330 and RX 400 and that is what my advice was based on. According to the Lexus Canada website the fuel consumption for the two is a follows (city/highway):

Rx 330 12.8/9.0 (l/100 km)
Rx 400 7.5/8.1 (l/100 km)
Difference 5.3/0.9 (l/100 km)

The average combined fuel savings assuming a 50:50 split between city and highway driving would be 3.1 l/100 km. At a fuel price of $1.00 per litre you would need to drive nearly 390,000 km to get back the extra $12,000 you spent on the RX400. And this analysis ignores the time value of money as the $12,000 must be paid up front and the cost of the extra fuel is paid out slowly over years.

At this time they don't make economic sense and the price of fuel is going to have to go way up or their cost drop enormously to have them make sense.

Also you still haven't covered the topic of cost of replacing the battery. How long is its life? I hear that the replacement cost will be in the thousands of dollars. And the scrapped batteries are an envornmental hazard full of toxic heavy metals. Sound like a good deal to you?

You make some interesting points!

Some points/ facts to consider:

The ~$62,000 Cdn. Lexus 400h gives you a "4.0 litre" V8 performance [versus 3.3L V6 performance of the RX330]; similar to a BMW X5 (retails for over $70k to $80k with a similar package/ features).

The Gap is not $12k as the 'packages' are different, the gap is more like $6k which is more than offset by the power increase (3.3L V6 230 H vs. 268 H {like a 4.0L V8}).

In terms of Value proposition, it only gets better from here in terms of:

-better for the environment

-Better mileage compared (30 per cent less than a RX330 V6, but drives like a V8).

High quality, safe vehicle, good resale, made in Japan, et cetera

In terms of your battery issue, get the 8 year-160K bumper to bumper warranty. Today the cost is about $6K to replace all of the batteries, but in 8 years it will be much less {similar concept to DVD player prices $1500 going down to under $100 over a period of time}.

Toyota has one of the best recycling programs in the world. There is a reason why Toyota has top notch vehicles; they are a market leader of quality and innovation, which is evidenced by their share price.

Simple economics of realistic/ valid numbers and overall value proposition...Go to a dealer and see/ test drive for yourself!

 

[RogerRabbit]

If cost and objective reporting are important, it may be useful to check out the recent Consumer Reports missives - http://www.consumerreports.org

Their picks include the 2005 Subaru Forester (best small SUV), 2005 Lexus RX330 (best mid-sized SUV) and the 2005 Toyota Land Cruiser (best large SUV).

And in the fuel efficiency category, their picks are the 2005 Subaru Forester (small SUV category) and the 2005 Toyota Highlander (mid-sized SUV).

And in terms of luxury, their favourites are the 2005 Lexus RX330 (mid-sized SUV category) and the 2005 Toyota Land Cruiser (large SUV category).

But have you ever thought of getting a station wagon?

I like consumer reports, they 'calls them as they sees them', unlike many media outlets.

An interesting tidbit:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...le&cid=1126735811315&call_pageid=971358637177

FRANKFURT—After some initial skepticism, the world's auto makers are embracing hybrid vehicles in an effort to match Toyota's success and give customers more options to combat high gas prices.
At the Frankfurt auto show this week, German auto makers Volkswagen AG, Audi AG and Porsche AG said they are forming an alliance to develop hybrid engines. Last week, BMW AG joined General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG in a similar partnership.
French auto maker PSA Peugeot-Citroen also wants to develop hybrid technology and may join forces with another company to share costs, chairman and chief executive Jean-Martin Folz said.
Audi unveiled the first gas-electric hybrid vehicle from a European auto maker at the show. It's a version of its new Q7 sport utility vehicle that will go on sale in 2008.
DaimlerChrysler also said it will release its first hybrid Mercedes before the next Frankfurt auto show, to be held in 2007.
Toyota Motor Corp. remains the runaway leader in the field. The Japanese company was the first to begin mass-producing hybrids with its Prius in 1997. Toyota sold 53,761 Prius cars in the United States last year, and Prius sales were up 133 per cent in the first eight months of this year, according to the company.
Companies are developing different kinds of hybrids. But generally, a hybrid vehicle has both an electric motor and a combustion engine, and the vehicle uses whichever power source is most appropriate at any given moment....

 

[goodtime]

That's like saying it's not really that important if motorcyclists wear a helmet because if they would ride more responsibly and learn how to avoid objects they would be much safer.
...

You really do take everything you read literally...

Let's see:
An unsafe driver in a safe car
vs.
A safe driver in an unsafe car.

Hm, which would you choose?

Not going to waste time debating with someone that lacks real-life experience.

 

[goodtime]

Swatch, that is.

It's refreshing that you are not refering to yourself in the third person in all your posts.

Oh, Goodtime forgot...thanks for the reminder

 

[wop]

why the fuck would you want an SUV anyway? a well designed sedan is safer, less expensive to run, handles and rides better, is good in the snow(with winter tires) and has just as much room.
spend 60-80 large on a car and just see the awesome ride you can get...way better than a tarted up truck or a too tall car...
there are some things I guess I will never understand.