Begging in Tim Hortons...........

[Terbevore]

I just had to share this. I’m in the Tim Hortons at Carlton and Jarvis yesterday in the early afternoon. A beggar comes in and starts bugging people for change. No one gives him any. The girl working the counter tells him to leave. A lady beside me laments that she feels sorry for him. I mention to her that there are several shelters in the area where he can get food and a place to sleep.

Five minutes go by and he’s back. The girl behind the counter again tells him to get out but he protests saying someone is buying him something. He orders a hot chocolate and a bagel and a gentleman pays for it. Then, both the beggar and the good samaritan leave, going in different directions. Once the good samaritan is out of sight, the beggar is back in the store demanding that the counter-girl exchange his bagel and hot chocolate for money. The girl tells him to forget it and he then goes to every customer in the store trying to sell them the bagel and the cup of hot chocolate. The counter-girl orders him out of the store and he was last seen standing outside on the sidewalk asking everyone passing by if they wanted to buy a bagel and a hot chocolate. The lady sitting beside me stated that she had just received some basic education with respect to the people wandering the streets.

This I swear is a true story.

 

[Never Compromised]

I'm sure it is. I have heard variations of it for years. Always the same, money is wanted not food. Drug habit to support or booze.

 

[The Daulfin]

Thanks for the story. I may have to change my stance on buying food for homeless beggars (as I already refuse to give money) to offering to share a meal with them so that I can see it gets eaten and not sold for drug money.

 

[Cobster]

Wow what a lil fucker.

 

[danmand]

Wow what a lil fucker.

Don't blame the poor sucker, he is sick. Blame society for the absence of a functioning welfare system to porovide help for him.

PS: I am conservative.

 

[papasmerf]

Don't blame the poor sucker, he is sick. Blame society for the absence of a functioning welfare system to porovide help for him.

PS: I am conservative.

Maybe you can take him into your home? Has the system failed him or has he decided to not be part of it?

 

[danmand]

Maybe you can take him into your home? Has the system failed him or has he decided to not be part of it?

The system has obviously failed him.

And bugger of, will you, we do not need americans to advise us on social policy.

 

[papasmerf]

The system has obviously failed him.

And bugger of, we do not need americans to advise us on social policy.

This is likely to be a shock to you, but people choose drugs. Drugs do not choose people. I do however agree that begging is a problem in most major cites and solutions are never as easy as opening a welfare office for easy access.

 

[Dash]

I always wondered why they can't just get a part time/full time job.

 

[Poonhound]

Don't blame the poor sucker, he is sick. Blame society for the absence of a functioning welfare system to porovide help for him.

PS: I am conservative.

That and the government is doing less to treat those who want it. Recently they have cut funding to treatment facilities causing drug and alcohol counselors to be layed off.

 

[Fabulous]

Toronto begging problem

20 years ago you saw the odd beggar/homeless person on Toronto streets. Now it seems like everybody is a beggar or homeless, you can barely walk 2 blocks downtown without being approached by somebody looking for a handout from a stranger. It's annoying and it should be banned. Most are ungreatfull and expect alot.

I heard that in some American cities it's illegal to beg or citizens can buy tokens to give to homeless for which they can exchange for food, toilettries, transportation. But you can not give cash.

 

[danmand]

This is likely to be a shock to you, but people choose drugs. Drugs do not choose people. I do however agree that begging is a problem in most major cites and solutions are never as easy as opening a welfare office for easy access.

You are actually right on that one count, that it is not easy and that it cost a lot of money to run a proper welfare system. But I have never been able to understand why one of the richest countries, cities in the world can accept to have people sleeping on the street in winter weather or crammed into disgusting shelters with no privacy or security.

As a conservative, I believe society benefits from making sure that as large a percentage as possible of our people are productive and paying taxes, instead of begging or relying on petty crimes for survival. A well functioning welfare system has a great ROI.

 

[papasmerf]

You are actually right on that one count, that it is not easy and that it cost a lot of money to run a proper welfare system. But I have never been able to understand why one of the richest countries, cities in the world can accept to have people sleeping on the street in winter weather or crammed into disgusting shelters with no privacy or security.

As a conservative, I believe society benefits from making sure that as large a percentage as possible of our people are productive and paying taxes, instead of begging or relying on petty crimes for survival. A well functioning welfare system has a great ROI.

I like to take that one step further. While it is true that some people do require social assistance, due to a true inability to work or support themselves. Jobs create a better solution to the situation. I know not every area has a growing economy. Yet you find other sectors of the country growing. Job training and relocation assistance might prove to be a better solution

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

Don't blame the poor sucker, he is sick. Blame society for the absence of a functioning welfare system to porovide help for him.

Did you forget to put the sarcastic smiley after this line?

PS: I am conservative.

Of course you are. And I'm Lester Pearson's illegitimate son.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

You are actually right on that one count, that it is not easy and that it cost a lot of money to run a proper welfare system. But I have never been able to understand why one of the richest countries, cities in the world can accept to have people sleeping on the street in winter weather or crammed into disgusting shelters with no privacy or security.

As a conservative, I believe society benefits from making sure that as large a percentage as possible of our people are productive and paying taxes, instead of begging or relying on petty crimes for survival. A well functioning welfare system has a great ROI.

The problem with your theory danmand, is that people like the Tim Horton's beggar won't take advantage of your improved welfare state anyway. Those that are on the dole will be licking their chops though.

BTW, not to get the coffee nazis all riled up again, but this type of thing never happens at Starbucks.

 

[Never Compromised]

I once saw a woman begging in the streets. One kind gentleman gave her money . She then returned from a store with a small bottle of aqua velva which she then drank. It was the grossest thing I've ever seen.

Aqua Velva is nothing. Try watching them take a can of Lysol spray and drink it, or sterno.

There is not an easy solution. Too many people say "get them a job", but the reality is that they are unemployable in their current state. First, there is the substance abuse problem, and probably a mental health issue as well. Then there is the problem of finding a job when you don't have access to a regular shower, clean clothes, and have no call back number.

And how do you balance the rights of the individual, with the duty of society? At what point are we all willing to give up our potential liberty by giving the police wide powers of arrest and detention? If you don't think that power would be abused, you have not read the history of the FLQ and the use of the War Measures Act in Canada.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

And how do you balance the rights of the individual, with the duty of society? At what point are we all willing to give up our potential liberty by giving the police wide powers of arrest and detention? If you don't think that power would be abused, you have not read the history of the FLQ and the use of the War Measures Act in Canada.

Yes.

Also, what about the rights of the vagrant? Since most of them choose their lifestyle, what right does society have to impose a different lifestyle?

If anyone living in this postion truly desires to change their lifestyle, the system is there for them. They can get help if they want it. By help I mean a hand up not a hand out.

I don't believe the problem is society's fault and I don't believe expanding welfare is a real solution.

 

[fuji]

I support funding programs to help people solve their problems and get to a normal life. You have to be careful though not to fund programs that just ENABLE them to have problems. Handing out a welfare check to a drug addict enables them to put off dealing with their problem. Funding a detox center is a better use of the money. Free or heavily subsidized education, grants/loans for students, tax breaks and funding for employers who take a chance on the chronically unemployed, free access to psychologists and addiction councillors, etc., also help people turn their lives around. The key is you can't force people into these services. They have to walk in and ask for help, at which point you move heaven and earth to help them because, if (and only if) they genuinely want to change, there's a chance they can.

Just handing out food, shelter, and money rarely solves the underlying problem and often just makes it worse. If you enable someone to survive as a drug addict you worsen their condition--the longer they're addicted, the harder it is to shake off, so by subsidizing their living costs you're actually making it harder for them to come clean.

I'm all in favour of a very, very harsh attitude towards people who are not doing anything to solve their problem, and a very generous helping hand out to those who have decided to turn around.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

I support funding programs to help people solve their problems and get to a normal life. You have to be careful though not to fund programs that just ENABLE them to have problems. Handing out a welfare check to a drug addict enables them to put off dealing with their problem. Funding a detox center is a better use of the money. Free or heavily subsidized education, grants/loans for students, tax breaks and funding for employers who take a chance on the chronically unemployed, etc., also help people turn their lives around.

Just handing out food, shelter, and money rarely solves the underlying problem and often just makes it worse. If you enable someone to survive as a drug addict you worsen their condition--the longer they're addicted, the harder it is to shake off, so by subsidizing their living costs you're actually making it harder for them to come clean.

I'm all in favour of a very, very harsh attitude towards people who are not doing anything to solve their problem, and a very generous helping hand out to those who have decided to turn around.

I agree.

I believe if any of these people want to improve their lives, we have the tools in our society to help them.

 

[lookingforitallthetime]

You can't save people from their bad decisions.

EU

Yes.

Also, you can't force them to conform.