Last year there were more cars produced in Mexico than Canada.... It's all moving to the Southern US and Mexico.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/204240/us-and-canada-and-mexico-vehicle-production/
Auto Strike
- Thread starter SkyRider
- Start date
http://www.statista.com/statistics/204240/us-and-canada-and-mexico-vehicle-production/
The initial "mandate" vote will always authorize a strike. That's a given. If they did not, the union would not be a position to negotiate.
All that does is tell Ford, GM, Chrysler that the union members are willing to go on strike if need be.
The next step is contract negotiations.
Once management says, "this is as good as it gets", the union will then take the contract details back to the membership and have another vote based on what management is actually offering. That's when it gets interesting. The union will say to the members, "we recommend you accept" or "we recommend you vote to strike" There have been cases where the union recommends acceptance and the membership says fuck it, go back and negotiate for more. (That always blows my mind.)
Then they put it to a vote.
Guaranteed, the strike vote will be a lot closer then, especially if the contract is status quo. When faced with the real prospect of being out on the street with no income, well, as they say, that is a time for reflection. It's all well and good before negotiations have even commenced for the union members to proclaim "Strike Strike Strike" and act all tough, but the reality of actually going on strike is something completely different. It could last weeks or even months or even forever. The union members have to seriously consider the impacts of that. Let's face it, we are all 2 cheques away from homeless as they say.
There have been cases (Caterpillar Locomotive Plant in London Ontario) where the owner said the membership, we want you to take a 50 percent pay cut orelse we are going to close this plant and union went on strike figuring that it was a bluff and the owner actually DID close the plant.
My personal opinion is that auto unions and construction unions are hugely over compensated already. As others have pointed out, the Canadian Auto Industry will simply pack up shop and move to Mexico. Money is mobile. You can't afford to pay a guy 40 bucks an hour to bolt on doors plus all the extras that come with the job (overtime, benefits, pension, etc. etc.) Your average auto worker has no idea how lucky he or she is.
Where the hell did you hear that? You are fucking retarded. I'm glad that I'm a retired auto worker because it is so pathetic listening to the same old rhetoric everytime this discussion is brought up. The jealousy is pathetic.
I did not "hear" that,...country bumpkin,...its fact,...something that union members like to ignore.
You are lucky you are retired,...but not so lucky are all of the now unemployed that you were instrumental in,...by moving jobs out of Ontario,...well done.
I'm jealous of a retired auto worker,...too funny.
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It has nothing to do with jealousy and everything to do with common sense. Anyone can see that the current business model is simply not sustainable. As previously stated in this thread, GM has more pensioners than workers and the legacy costs are enormous.
It's only a matter of time before GM goes broke for good.
Can't happen?
British Leyland was once the third largest manufacturer of cars in the world.
LOL. You keep believing that. I don't usually waste my time responding to threads like these because it's always the same old responses. Enjoy your blissful ignorance slow man.
What I find pathetic is the auto workers, which I'm sure you were one of these, constantly wanting and wanting and wanting, nothing but greedy fucking bastards. I am not jealous either because as far as I'm concerned none of you auto workers were worth what you were paid or deserve the pensions available. You just belonged to a piece of shit union that liked to hold the auto makers hostage for way more than what any of you were worth.
Sounds like your opinion regarding auto pensions couldn't possibly be compromised or biased in any way....
I can't believe all the union bashing.None of what they really affects the average person.If the car companies really couldn't afford the wages and benefits they wouldn't have awarded the works those wages and moved along time ago.Besides there isn't anybody who works for a living that doesn't want more money and benefits.
They are moving, while needing government subsidies/bailouts. Again, more cars made in Mexico than Canada - in the US manufacturing has moved south to escape the unions who ate the golden goose.
And your opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it. Nothing. As I said, the same old bullshit insults and made up stories. Do some research.
Manufacturing jobs have been leaving Canada and will continue to do so, Toyota being the latest automaker to move production of the Corolla from Cambridge to Mexico, they did however say they were going to invest in the Canadian plant still. In the States they are going to those States that are right to work States, which negates the unions. Mexico is the big draw and no doubt the unions are trying to get in there.
A similar situation has been fully explored and commented on in the Hamilton newspaper when USS (formerly Stelco the steel company welded to the Local 1005 USW) and Arcelor-Mittal (formerly Dofasco- was never a union shop, never will be, even when ARCELOR bought them out and asked can we get the union in here like all the other Arcelor plants)
Local1005 went on strike, main contentious point was USS wanted and end to DB pension. Things got dragged out way too long. The pension stayed but all they do now is make coke, no steel. All the steel is made elsewhere. Hamilton may have made the best steel, but was about as dysfunctional as any union shop where a guy can hide a couple of hours per shift and sleep on the job.
Arcelor is still profitable making steel even after the he downturn in the 80s (both plants laid off almost 1000 a year for close to 10 years).
Arcelor has profit sharing and aids the retirement planning process.
USS is not profitable in Canada, all steel is made in the states (where no DB pensions exist) and maybe that's being done to make a point!
Attitude of the workforce is key.
Everyone at Toyota in Cambridge where's the same coveralls. There is no differentiation between labour and management - BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.
Once the us and them attitude creeps in, things fall apart. Throw in economic and technology upheavels and you get a really interesting movie.
I think if the auto unions want to ensure job security, they'll have to seriously consider bartering the DB pension.
Local1005 went on strike, main contentious point was USS wanted and end to DB pension. Things got dragged out way too long. The pension stayed but all they do now is make coke, no steel. All the steel is made elsewhere. Hamilton may have made the best steel, but was about as dysfunctional as any union shop where a guy can hide a couple of hours per shift and sleep on the job.
Arcelor is still profitable making steel even after the he downturn in the 80s (both plants laid off almost 1000 a year for close to 10 years).
Arcelor has profit sharing and aids the retirement planning process.
USS is not profitable in Canada, all steel is made in the states (where no DB pensions exist) and maybe that's being done to make a point!
Attitude of the workforce is key.
Everyone at Toyota in Cambridge where's the same coveralls. There is no differentiation between labour and management - BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.
Once the us and them attitude creeps in, things fall apart. Throw in economic and technology upheavels and you get a really interesting movie.
I think if the auto unions want to ensure job security, they'll have to seriously consider bartering the DB pension.
A man who knows what is reality.
Those unions are NOT in this for their members,...its all about the union heads egos.
I have witnessed exactly what AQUAD51 has posted.
Although long gone,... buzz brain Hargrove was a fricken lunatic.
Among other bone headed decisions,...when the big three offered profit sharing,...he said no fucken way,...an idiot,...one of many, unfortunately.
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I've never been a union worker, nor do I care about their silly antics.... some family members are unionized. And when I hear them complain with their entitled demands, I shake my head. My other family members who work in the private sector agree with me. The dumbest debates we have is when "sick days" are discussed. Union workers want to bank them indefinitely and then cash them out like a bonus. Private sectors guys like me have a view that they are there if you need them. But if you don't use them, why should a company pay you out 200 sick days when you never were sick.
It's not like this is 100 years ago when workers were all getting taken advantage of with low wages and unsafe work (those horror stories and vids you hear about how shoddy manufacturing was long time ago).
It's 2016. Get with the times. If your company is outsourcing stuff to another country it means you aren't as good. Costs, quality or a combo of both. If your unionized company was worth keeping, they would make it easy for themselves and stick around. Nobody wants to move, and no company wants to have the hassle of coordinating manufacturing with head office 5,000 miles away.
Also, unionized works are mistaken that moving facilities is all about costs. We have manufacturing in Japan. Not exactly cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if it costs more to make stuff there then to dissolve it and make everything in Canada or the US, but we keep the Japan plant and ship everything across the pacific because it's too risky to mess with the plant, since it churns out is excellent quality product.
Also, even if it's proven making something in Mexico is worse than a Canadian or US plant, it all comes back to cost/benefit/quality. Perhaps the quality is a bit worse from Mexican workers. And it takes time to ship from there. But if the costs are that much better, it leads to a companies improved profitability, and more importantly it gives extra margin to play with to compete against competitors. And who says every product everywhere has to be top notch quality (assuming Canadians make high quality)? There's a reason why stores like Dollarama are doing great and Walmart (with their avg quality merchandise) hum along. Not everyone wants to pay a lot of money for certain things.
I make good money myself, but I shop at Dollarama and Walmart too. If I need a pizza cutter, Dollarama has ones for $3. Probably made in China. Good enough for me. Or I can go to Kitchen Stuff Plus and buy a fancy one with a fancy European brand name for $20. For me, a $3 is fine.
If everything was all about quality with zero concern about costs or competitive pricing, then unionized Canadian workers shouldn't complain anyway. Ship all manufacturing to counties with better quality. I'd take German or Japan quality over Canadian hard goods any time.
And lastly, unionized workers are hypocrites anyway. It's all about keeping jobs. But check out what they buy and where they shop. I bet most of the stuff they buy isn't made in Canada anyway. I can understand some things like electronics (since I don't think there are any Canadian makers of TVs and such), or certain foods (like pineapples etc...), but there are Canadian options for most goods out there. You just have to look for it. But like everyone else, most things in their home is made from another country.
So when it comes to jobs, they are insistent about keeping their own. When it comes to shopping, their purchases of foriegn products (which hurts other Canadian companies), is of no concern.
It's not like this is 100 years ago when workers were all getting taken advantage of with low wages and unsafe work (those horror stories and vids you hear about how shoddy manufacturing was long time ago).
It's 2016. Get with the times. If your company is outsourcing stuff to another country it means you aren't as good. Costs, quality or a combo of both. If your unionized company was worth keeping, they would make it easy for themselves and stick around. Nobody wants to move, and no company wants to have the hassle of coordinating manufacturing with head office 5,000 miles away.
Also, unionized works are mistaken that moving facilities is all about costs. We have manufacturing in Japan. Not exactly cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if it costs more to make stuff there then to dissolve it and make everything in Canada or the US, but we keep the Japan plant and ship everything across the pacific because it's too risky to mess with the plant, since it churns out is excellent quality product.
Also, even if it's proven making something in Mexico is worse than a Canadian or US plant, it all comes back to cost/benefit/quality. Perhaps the quality is a bit worse from Mexican workers. And it takes time to ship from there. But if the costs are that much better, it leads to a companies improved profitability, and more importantly it gives extra margin to play with to compete against competitors. And who says every product everywhere has to be top notch quality (assuming Canadians make high quality)? There's a reason why stores like Dollarama are doing great and Walmart (with their avg quality merchandise) hum along. Not everyone wants to pay a lot of money for certain things.
I make good money myself, but I shop at Dollarama and Walmart too. If I need a pizza cutter, Dollarama has ones for $3. Probably made in China. Good enough for me. Or I can go to Kitchen Stuff Plus and buy a fancy one with a fancy European brand name for $20. For me, a $3 is fine.
If everything was all about quality with zero concern about costs or competitive pricing, then unionized Canadian workers shouldn't complain anyway. Ship all manufacturing to counties with better quality. I'd take German or Japan quality over Canadian hard goods any time.
And lastly, unionized workers are hypocrites anyway. It's all about keeping jobs. But check out what they buy and where they shop. I bet most of the stuff they buy isn't made in Canada anyway. I can understand some things like electronics (since I don't think there are any Canadian makers of TVs and such), or certain foods (like pineapples etc...), but there are Canadian options for most goods out there. You just have to look for it. But like everyone else, most things in their home is made from another country.
So when it comes to jobs, they are insistent about keeping their own. When it comes to shopping, their purchases of foriegn products (which hurts other Canadian companies), is of no concern.
