What's with Leaf management....are they going to improve the team, or hold the status quo, and have us still hoping for years to come.
Are there going to be any NEW Leafs...
- Thread starter The Bandit
- Start date
G
GlavaMan
The Leafs are likely waiting(like most other teams) to see what happens with the CBA. They resigned their own free agents so they are in a good position to wait.
haha Dougie...GlavaMan is spot on...there are still a lot of big names out there, and has any team made any huge signings? not really
you know, i think back at all the Leaf message boards they are stating that the leafs are ready to sign Palffy, Shanahan, Demitra, Matvichuk, as well as rumour has it they are going to trade Aki Berg for Kovalchuk straight up. hahahah oh i better stop my sides are starting to hurt 
NHL fans in general aren't always the sharpest knives in the drawer. This kind of nonsensery (is that a word? it should be) goes on in ALL team message boards.
The Leafs are probably going to add one more above average forward, but probably not until the CBA is settled.
The Leafs are probably going to add one more above average forward, but probably not until the CBA is settled.
Rumor has it that Lindros want to come to TO-
that's what they need.....another overpaid, underachieving, injury prone, mama's boy in town.
Defense? who needs it? *insert sarcasm*
I hope this stays a rumor.
5 out of 6 of the Original 6 have made it to the fianls at least once since 1968 - except the Leafs....Leaf fans are suckers, gluttons for punishment. I can't believe a city would support such a substandard team for so long. And I can't believe the fans pay those ticket prices. The teams sucess is in the fact that they make money - win or lose. Why improve a team when you're making money. The fans will come out and support the team anyway? So keep the money within the organization, tease the fans with some gratuitous signings and they'll keep hoping.
that's what they need.....another overpaid, underachieving, injury prone, mama's boy in town.
Defense? who needs it? *insert sarcasm*
I hope this stays a rumor.
5 out of 6 of the Original 6 have made it to the fianls at least once since 1968 - except the Leafs....Leaf fans are suckers, gluttons for punishment. I can't believe a city would support such a substandard team for so long. And I can't believe the fans pay those ticket prices. The teams sucess is in the fact that they make money - win or lose. Why improve a team when you're making money. The fans will come out and support the team anyway? So keep the money within the organization, tease the fans with some gratuitous signings and they'll keep hoping.
Their defense is set - Leetch, Klee, McCabe, Kaberle plus two of Marchment, Berg, Berehowsky and the young guys (Pilar, Colaiacovo, Hedin, Kondratiev).
Why spend money on a fifth or sixth defenseman whose going to play twelve minutes a game?
If it's defense from the forwards you're talking about, that's something else - although I'd say Lindros has never been a bad defensive forward - probably about average.
I'm just waiting, patiently, for Quinn to go, and some kind of system to be put in place by his successor, although it'll be too late for most of these guys ....
Why spend money on a fifth or sixth defenseman whose going to play twelve minutes a game?
If it's defense from the forwards you're talking about, that's something else - although I'd say Lindros has never been a bad defensive forward - probably about average.
I'm just waiting, patiently, for Quinn to go, and some kind of system to be put in place by his successor, although it'll be too late for most of these guys ....
Oh, I see you've added all that ridiculous dretch about how the Leaf management isn't interested in winning, since they make money anyway.
What a load.
Yeah, Leaf fans, whose team is usually in contention in April, are gluttons for punishment. LOL Unlike those in Edmonton, New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles ... Ottawa .... LOL
I'd rather have a team that at least has a shot at the start of every year than make the playoffs every blue moon, squeak into the finals and lose.
What a load.
Yeah, Leaf fans, whose team is usually in contention in April, are gluttons for punishment. LOL Unlike those in Edmonton, New York, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles ... Ottawa
.... LOLI'd rather have a team that at least has a shot at the start of every year than make the playoffs every blue moon, squeak into the finals and lose.
Leafs D
Their defense is set for exactly what? The group they have is not good enough! Leetch, McCabe and Klee are a start. It is time to move Kaberle. Marchment has not signed. Berg and Pilar are at best question marks. Quinn clearly demonstrated thrugh the playoffs, he has no confidence in Berehowsky. A position I have trouble disagreeing with.
Hedin will never be a regularl in Toronto.
They'd better hope Cola, Bell, Harrison and Knodreitev develop quickly because they need the help.
I entirely agree Quinn has not installed a 'system' in five years. Do you honestly think that will change?
Better effort from the forwards? Who do you see as the stoppers up front? The one guy who might fit that job description, Fitzgerald is rumoured to be on his way out of town. Seriously, this is an area of concern. Who plays against the othe team's best line?
One ofmy concerns with Domi as always his inability to develop
the defensive/discipline aspect of his game. He plays tough. Does his job in protecting his teammates and creating energy. Still, he does not the skill to play of the top lines and score consistantly. He has never developed the defensive/discipline aspect of his game sufficiently for Quinn to trust him the tight situations. Hence, he gets 7-9 minutes per night.
Will Quinn now hand this assignment to Stajan? Antropov? Poni?
How does Quinn now change the attitude and work ethic in the defensive part of the game for guys on the top two lines? They've got their money. They know they are going to play.
Lets hope Eddie is full value for his contract or there could be serious trouble at the ACC.
Their defense is set for exactly what? The group they have is not good enough! Leetch, McCabe and Klee are a start. It is time to move Kaberle. Marchment has not signed. Berg and Pilar are at best question marks. Quinn clearly demonstrated thrugh the playoffs, he has no confidence in Berehowsky. A position I have trouble disagreeing with.
Hedin will never be a regularl in Toronto.
They'd better hope Cola, Bell, Harrison and Knodreitev develop quickly because they need the help.
I entirely agree Quinn has not installed a 'system' in five years. Do you honestly think that will change?
Better effort from the forwards? Who do you see as the stoppers up front? The one guy who might fit that job description, Fitzgerald is rumoured to be on his way out of town. Seriously, this is an area of concern. Who plays against the othe team's best line?
One ofmy concerns with Domi as always his inability to develop
the defensive/discipline aspect of his game. He plays tough. Does his job in protecting his teammates and creating energy. Still, he does not the skill to play of the top lines and score consistantly. He has never developed the defensive/discipline aspect of his game sufficiently for Quinn to trust him the tight situations. Hence, he gets 7-9 minutes per night.
Will Quinn now hand this assignment to Stajan? Antropov? Poni?
How does Quinn now change the attitude and work ethic in the defensive part of the game for guys on the top two lines? They've got their money. They know they are going to play.
Lets hope Eddie is full value for his contract or there could be serious trouble at the ACC.
Re: Leafs D
It's not the defense that's a problem on this team - outside of injury concerns - it's defensive play from the forwards.
I agree the team needs upgrading in this regard - whether via a system (not going to happen with Quinn at the helm) or via player movement.
It will likely be the same old same old this year - run and gun and hope for the best - which hasn't worked out all that badly in the last few years, frankly - better than almost every team.
Me, I'd prefer a system. Again, until Quinn's gone, it's not happening. That's a long way from saying the Leafs are toast.
What team has a distinctly better defense than the Leafs? What are the Leafs defense not good enough to do? Marchment will likely sign - Berehowsky was buried behind players. You're arguing the THIRD defensive pairing here, in any case. Not all that interesting or important. Losing Klee hurt tremendously last year. If they lose him again, there's nothing they can do about it.pistol said:
It's not the defense that's a problem on this team - outside of injury concerns - it's defensive play from the forwards.
I agree the team needs upgrading in this regard - whether via a system (not going to happen with Quinn at the helm) or via player movement.
It will likely be the same old same old this year - run and gun and hope for the best - which hasn't worked out all that badly in the last few years, frankly - better than almost every team.
Me, I'd prefer a system. Again, until Quinn's gone, it's not happening. That's a long way from saying the Leafs are toast.
In an effort to get younger, I've heard the Leafs will be snatching away some other teams' stars such Jean Belliveau & Rocket Richard from the hated Habs, Bobby Orr will man the power play, Gordie Howe will supplant Mats Sundin as the top Center, and along with Bobby Hull on Sundin's right side, he'll finally have a sniper on the same line. In case Ed Belfour's back can't hold up, another former Hab, Jacques Plante will come from the dead to back him up (tasteless joke, I admit, but he can't do any worse than Trevor Kidd). And finally, John Ferguson Sr. will add some muscle. Junior insists Daddy will not receive any preferential treatment, and his being named Captain instead of Mats is something the players and coaches decided, he swears by it.
Oh, and of course in true Maple Leafs' fans tradition, they'll all be traded to Toronto for Wade Belak and one of our ridiculously over-rated minor leaguers. And if these teams won't accept it, then we'll move Belak, Darcy Tucker and Matt Stajan to Calgary instead for Jerome Iginla, Mika Kiprisoff and a 1st round draft pick, as most Leafs' fans believe is a fair trade.
Despite the sarcasm, I truly am a die-hard Leafs fan. I'm just sick of this shoddy product they keep putting on the ice. Go Buds Go!
Oh, and of course in true Maple Leafs' fans tradition, they'll all be traded to Toronto for Wade Belak and one of our ridiculously over-rated minor leaguers. And if these teams won't accept it, then we'll move Belak, Darcy Tucker and Matt Stajan to Calgary instead for Jerome Iginla, Mika Kiprisoff and a 1st round draft pick, as most Leafs' fans believe is a fair trade.
Despite the sarcasm, I truly am a die-hard Leafs fan. I'm just sick of this shoddy product they keep putting on the ice. Go Buds Go!
2003-04 - 5th overall, by points
02-03 - 9th overall
01-02 - 3rd overall
00-01 - 14th overall
99-00 - 7th overall
98-99 - 5th overall
What's shoddy about that record?
How good have other teams in the east done in that time span?
(Actually, I'll answer that for two teams, Ottawa and Philadelphia:
03-04 - PHI 7, OTT 6
02-03 - PHI 5, OTT 1
01-02 - PHI 6, OTT 13
00-01 - PHI 7, OTT 4
99-00 - PHI 3, OTT 10
98-99 - PHI 6, OTT 3
Toronto's has had the best record twice in those six years, second twice, and third twice. All three teams have comparable records over the six-year span. None have won the Cup, and all have been accused of "underachieving" in the playoffs as a result.)
You could say that, because of their high payroll, you EXPECT that or better, but teams that spend don't *necessarily* do well. I'd be interested if someone did a correlation between standings and salary and looked at where the Leafs fit in.
You could say that their playoff performance hasn't been good. Frankly, it's been *average* - really neither all that good or bad. Qualitatively, you could say they've won some series many thought they'd lose, and lost some series many thought they'd win.
The only real argument, the same hoary old chestnut that's gonna be hauled out every year until they win - they haven't brought the Cup home. You know, in baseball, the Cubs and Red Sox haven't won in a much longer time span - do people accuse them of not trying? Of only fielding a marginally competitive team? Of having systemic franchise-crippling flaws? It's silly.
The Leafs, year in and year out, are competitive. That having been said, they continue to be a somewhat conservative franchise in terms of FA signings and trades. I'm not entirely opposed to a team not wanting to spend like the Rangers do. I'm also entirely not opposed to having a team make the playoffs almost every year, unlike the Rangers.
02-03 - 9th overall
01-02 - 3rd overall
00-01 - 14th overall
99-00 - 7th overall
98-99 - 5th overall
What's shoddy about that record?
How good have other teams in the east done in that time span?
(Actually, I'll answer that for two teams, Ottawa and Philadelphia:
03-04 - PHI 7, OTT 6
02-03 - PHI 5, OTT 1
01-02 - PHI 6, OTT 13
00-01 - PHI 7, OTT 4
99-00 - PHI 3, OTT 10
98-99 - PHI 6, OTT 3
Toronto's has had the best record twice in those six years, second twice, and third twice. All three teams have comparable records over the six-year span. None have won the Cup, and all have been accused of "underachieving" in the playoffs as a result.)
You could say that, because of their high payroll, you EXPECT that or better, but teams that spend don't *necessarily* do well. I'd be interested if someone did a correlation between standings and salary and looked at where the Leafs fit in.
You could say that their playoff performance hasn't been good. Frankly, it's been *average* - really neither all that good or bad. Qualitatively, you could say they've won some series many thought they'd lose, and lost some series many thought they'd win.
The only real argument, the same hoary old chestnut that's gonna be hauled out every year until they win - they haven't brought the Cup home. You know, in baseball, the Cubs and Red Sox haven't won in a much longer time span - do people accuse them of not trying? Of only fielding a marginally competitive team? Of having systemic franchise-crippling flaws? It's silly.
The Leafs, year in and year out, are competitive. That having been said, they continue to be a somewhat conservative franchise in terms of FA signings and trades. I'm not entirely opposed to a team not wanting to spend like the Rangers do. I'm also entirely not opposed to having a team make the playoffs almost every year, unlike the Rangers.
G
GlavaMan
I think Lindros could be a bargain for the Leafs or some other team. He had 32 pts in 39 games last year. A delayed start to the season would benefit him also. The key would be to sign him to an incentive laden contract so if he gets hurt, he won't cost much. But IF he can stay healthy...
I have to disagree...Lindros was playing rather well on that excuse of a team before he got hurt.
In 2001-2002, he had 37 goals, 36 assists in 72 games.
In 2002-2003, he had 19 goals, 34 assists in 81 games.
In 2003-2004, he has 10 goals, 22 assists in 37 games.
So prior to last season, he's been relatively healthy. He's worth the risk considering he wouldnt get a huge contract and more importantly , they arent trading for him thereby sacrificing no one in case it doesnt work out.
In 2001-2002, he had 37 goals, 36 assists in 72 games.
In 2002-2003, he had 19 goals, 34 assists in 81 games.
In 2003-2004, he has 10 goals, 22 assists in 37 games.
So prior to last season, he's been relatively healthy. He's worth the risk considering he wouldnt get a huge contract and more importantly , they arent trading for him thereby sacrificing no one in case it doesnt work out.
One more thing I should have added, his season ended last year due to his shoulder, not his noggin.
Leafs D
Ranger, as a Leaf fan it is your perogative to believe the party line.
As to who is better of the back end? Several teams: Calgary-bigger, stronger, younger and much cheaper. Colorado-Detriot-whether Schneider returns or not. Tampa? Nothing flashy, but they did the job. Philly, despite injuries and Clarke's constant reshuffling, they've beat Toronto 2 years running. Ottawa. I know they never win, but would you not want that young core of Chara, Redden and Phillps to build around? Vancouver- Jovo, Ohlund, Sopel...big, young, mobile. And, SJ who clearly a terrific set of d-men even if you don't see them on TSN regularly.
Lets look at the Leafs. They have 2 top 3 guys.
Leetch is a Hall of Famer. McCabe has as much potential a anyone, but it is being squandered because of the lack of system and discipline. As he proved in the playoffs, he is still prone to brain cramps and miscues at critical times.
Kaberle's time has to be running out. You cannot teach or coach the grit he lacks. Great skater and pucks. With Leetch here, he becomes expendable because he is now not even used as a PP specialist.
Klee is a solid 4-5, nothing more.
Berehowsky got buried because he isn't good enough!
Marchment is riding is reputation as a mean dirty player established years ago. He can no longer deliver on a regular basis.
Berg plenty of potential but no consistance.
Pilar show flashes, but can't stay in the lineup on a defensively challenged club. His health has been a problem and Quinn seems to have lost confidence.
Leetch and McCabe played 30 minutes per night! We are not talking about the third pairing. I am of the belief they have only 3 dependable defenders. Here to they have plenty of skill and offensive upside, but they clearly lack the size, toughness and attitude a team like Calgary demonstrated throughout the playoffs.
But as you say, it is not vey interesting. The Leaf brass must agree with you because despite their huge investment in this team, they've done nothing to address a glaring weakness.
Ranger, as a Leaf fan it is your perogative to believe the party line.
As to who is better of the back end? Several teams: Calgary-bigger, stronger, younger and much cheaper. Colorado-Detriot-whether Schneider returns or not. Tampa? Nothing flashy, but they did the job. Philly, despite injuries and Clarke's constant reshuffling, they've beat Toronto 2 years running. Ottawa. I know they never win, but would you not want that young core of Chara, Redden and Phillps to build around? Vancouver- Jovo, Ohlund, Sopel...big, young, mobile. And, SJ who clearly a terrific set of d-men even if you don't see them on TSN regularly.
Lets look at the Leafs. They have 2 top 3 guys.
Leetch is a Hall of Famer. McCabe has as much potential a anyone, but it is being squandered because of the lack of system and discipline. As he proved in the playoffs, he is still prone to brain cramps and miscues at critical times.
Kaberle's time has to be running out. You cannot teach or coach the grit he lacks. Great skater and pucks. With Leetch here, he becomes expendable because he is now not even used as a PP specialist.
Klee is a solid 4-5, nothing more.
Berehowsky got buried because he isn't good enough!
Marchment is riding is reputation as a mean dirty player established years ago. He can no longer deliver on a regular basis.
Berg plenty of potential but no consistance.
Pilar show flashes, but can't stay in the lineup on a defensively challenged club. His health has been a problem and Quinn seems to have lost confidence.
Leetch and McCabe played 30 minutes per night! We are not talking about the third pairing. I am of the belief they have only 3 dependable defenders. Here to they have plenty of skill and offensive upside, but they clearly lack the size, toughness and attitude a team like Calgary demonstrated throughout the playoffs.
But as you say, it is not vey interesting. The Leaf brass must agree with you because despite their huge investment in this team, they've done nothing to address a glaring weakness.
Just because it is my perogative to toe the party line, doesn't make it my responsibility. I don't toe the party line. I expect Quinn to go. Sorry to weaken your argument, but you should try sticking to the facts.
I disagree that Detroit's and Colorado's D are better than Toronto's - both were eliminated early, mostly because of defensive problems. Were you even watching last year?
Calgary's is younger, certainly - not sure how much better - a couple of young guys surrounded by journeymen.
Tampa - look, just because they won the Cup doesn't mean they have an All-Star defense - it's good, not shocking - St. Louis and Khabibulin led them to the Cup.
Ottawa - better than Toronto, clearly - that didn't stop us from beating them every year before this one. LOL
Vancouver - slightly better, but lacking depth, like Toronto.
SJ - LOL - very average.
Philly hasn't beaten Toronto two years because of their defensive corps. Please. They had many of the same problems we did - injury issues.
You haven't named many teams with significantly better D's than the Leafs. I'd rate the Leafs D in the top ten in the league. That's not a "glaring weakness". I'd rate the defensive play of the Leaf forwards near last in the league - THIS is the real issue, and is reflective of Quinn's style, the temperament of the players, and the lack of a strong defensive system.
Leetch - the numbers speak for themselves
McCabe - the numbers speak for themselves - EVERYONE has brain cramps in the playoffs - in fact, EVERYONE has brain cramps at most times of the year - it's just magnified in the playoffs
Klee - a solid 4-5?!?! LOL - dream on - number TWO man on ANY TEAM IN THE NHL - he's NEVER been a 4-5 defenseman on any team he's been on - come on, show SOME objectivity
Kaberle - should be a power-play specialist, but the numbers are better than most D on any team, so he gets the time
Marchment - delivers just fine - if this is your five or six guy, you've got no worries
Berg - LOTS of D show little consistency at this point in time in the NHL - that's why he's not in the top four
Berehowsky - if this is your seventh or eighth D, you've got no worries - this guy was NUMBER ONE in Pittsburgh
Pilar, Colaiacovo - both excellent prospects
What's your point about Leetch and McCabe playing so much? Most teams rely as heavily upon their first pairing? Didn't you know that?? Let's see how far Calgary's vaunted defense takes them this year. Care to make a wager? I'll bet you they don't make the playoffs - that's how good their defense it. LOL
The Leafs don't have a glaring weakness on defense. At most, they should be looking for a four-man. They have lots of candidates for that post, however.
As a Leaf basher, however, it's your perogative to toe this party line.
I disagree that Detroit's and Colorado's D are better than Toronto's - both were eliminated early, mostly because of defensive problems. Were you even watching last year?
Calgary's is younger, certainly - not sure how much better - a couple of young guys surrounded by journeymen.
Tampa - look, just because they won the Cup doesn't mean they have an All-Star defense - it's good, not shocking - St. Louis and Khabibulin led them to the Cup.
Ottawa - better than Toronto, clearly - that didn't stop us from beating them every year before this one. LOL
Vancouver - slightly better, but lacking depth, like Toronto.
SJ - LOL - very average.
Philly hasn't beaten Toronto two years because of their defensive corps. Please. They had many of the same problems we did - injury issues.
You haven't named many teams with significantly better D's than the Leafs. I'd rate the Leafs D in the top ten in the league. That's not a "glaring weakness". I'd rate the defensive play of the Leaf forwards near last in the league - THIS is the real issue, and is reflective of Quinn's style, the temperament of the players, and the lack of a strong defensive system.
Leetch - the numbers speak for themselves
McCabe - the numbers speak for themselves - EVERYONE has brain cramps in the playoffs - in fact, EVERYONE has brain cramps at most times of the year - it's just magnified in the playoffs
Klee - a solid 4-5?!?! LOL - dream on - number TWO man on ANY TEAM IN THE NHL - he's NEVER been a 4-5 defenseman on any team he's been on - come on, show SOME objectivity
Kaberle - should be a power-play specialist, but the numbers are better than most D on any team, so he gets the time
Marchment - delivers just fine - if this is your five or six guy, you've got no worries
Berg - LOTS of D show little consistency at this point in time in the NHL - that's why he's not in the top four
Berehowsky - if this is your seventh or eighth D, you've got no worries - this guy was NUMBER ONE in Pittsburgh
Pilar, Colaiacovo - both excellent prospects
What's your point about Leetch and McCabe playing so much? Most teams rely as heavily upon their first pairing? Didn't you know that?? Let's see how far Calgary's vaunted defense takes them this year. Care to make a wager? I'll bet you they don't make the playoffs - that's how good their defense it. LOL
The Leafs don't have a glaring weakness on defense. At most, they should be looking for a four-man. They have lots of candidates for that post, however.
As a Leaf basher, however, it's your perogative to toe this party line.
