Are Canadian Escorts Really Cool? ALL PARTS
- Thread starter E_B_Samaritano
- Start date
what about his choice of font size too...
jesus...ebs takes the time to organize and share his thoughts, and the first responses are about his formatting choice?!!!
ebs...you've written about a number of intriguing factors in comparing perceived advantages of canadian sp's over those from not only the u.s, but the america's at large. i enjoyed the thread, and especially enjoyed the idea of cultural relativism that moves through your points...when you can find the funding, this would be a great nfb documentary outline...oh...you could have underscored and italicized a lot more, too...
jesus...ebs takes the time to organize and share his thoughts, and the first responses are about his formatting choice?!!!
ebs...you've written about a number of intriguing factors in comparing perceived advantages of canadian sp's over those from not only the u.s, but the america's at large. i enjoyed the thread, and especially enjoyed the idea of cultural relativism that moves through your points...when you can find the funding, this would be a great nfb documentary outline...oh...you could have underscored and italicized a lot more, too...
Fred,
Thanks for consolidating this thread. It is the case that messages are limited in length, so I chose to use individual postings. I now realize I could have just posted all parts in the same thread, but I was half way through before it dawned on me.
EBS
Thanks for consolidating this thread. It is the case that messages are limited in length, so I chose to use individual postings. I now realize I could have just posted all parts in the same thread, but I was half way through before it dawned on me.
EBS
Ice dog-
On balance what I’ve said is neutral on the question. Your mainstream workforce is bolstered by the fact that you have a higher percentage of foreign nationals. In fact some of your best providers as cited on these boards are not Canadian citizens. I’m simply giving my point of view on factors that I think influence perceptions of American clientele. Of those factors, I cite the legalization of prostitution in Canada as being the one that I believe contributes the most to the perception of an American who might hold the belief that Canadian Escorts are “cool”. There are many other factors that might influence such opinions. I think I’ve spoken on most but I’ve purposefully chosen to not discuss those that are personal to me. The cheap factor cannot be discounted. A lot of the Americans that live close to the border are not in larger metro areas and their choice of providers is limited. If I’m looking for the "exclusive" class of provider, I stay home. Those who fit in that class, are in the US making a living down here.
EBS
On balance what I’ve said is neutral on the question. Your mainstream workforce is bolstered by the fact that you have a higher percentage of foreign nationals. In fact some of your best providers as cited on these boards are not Canadian citizens. I’m simply giving my point of view on factors that I think influence perceptions of American clientele. Of those factors, I cite the legalization of prostitution in Canada as being the one that I believe contributes the most to the perception of an American who might hold the belief that Canadian Escorts are “cool”. There are many other factors that might influence such opinions. I think I’ve spoken on most but I’ve purposefully chosen to not discuss those that are personal to me. The cheap factor cannot be discounted. A lot of the Americans that live close to the border are not in larger metro areas and their choice of providers is limited. If I’m looking for the "exclusive" class of provider, I stay home. Those who fit in that class, are in the US making a living down here.
EBS
Sneaky Long-
I’m not quite sure I understand what you’re saying. Free market economics has never applied to the sex business. This is a black market, even in Canada. Most agencies do a significant amount of business with clientele from the states and this will bolster the pricing for outcalls. If you check pricing in Toronto, you’ll find that your real prices haven’t changed much since the 80’s. Actually outcalls were a bit cheaper as they were not as widely available due to the enforcement of statutes that made incalls preferable. There also wasn’t the demand in Toronto from the US that has been generated due to the globalization effect of the internet. There continues to be a lot of price variance however, because information is not perfect, the product is a highly personalized service, and client perceptions and tastes are entirely too subjective. There are no real objective criteria to evaluate the product. These are women, not commodities, and it’s my opinion that much of the ill will and cynicism between parties is generated by clients who hold this market view. This will be a free market when your economy resembles that of a third world, where virtually all women who are prostitutes are desperate due to lack of opportunity. Prices for escorts at higher levels tend to hold regardless to whether the individual products are actually “worth” that amount in a free market. A woman will either get her price, make a decision to lower it, or pursue other opportunities if she does not want to market to clients of a certain socioeconomic class. Price kiting is not only about hot bods, youth and desirability, it is about keeping cheap or under funded clients off the merchandise. If Mercedes automobiles were shit, they’d have some real problems. You won’t find them selling at Ford prices, however. What that means is that the only ones who would make themselves affordable to you, are poor to begin with, regardless to price. If an individual high priced escort has a problem, that is hers alone to fix. Only the commodity and low priced end of this market functions on a quasi free market demand/supply.
Relatively speaking, your escorts are just as affordable to you as ours are to us.
EBS
I’m not quite sure I understand what you’re saying. Free market economics has never applied to the sex business. This is a black market, even in Canada. Most agencies do a significant amount of business with clientele from the states and this will bolster the pricing for outcalls. If you check pricing in Toronto, you’ll find that your real prices haven’t changed much since the 80’s. Actually outcalls were a bit cheaper as they were not as widely available due to the enforcement of statutes that made incalls preferable. There also wasn’t the demand in Toronto from the US that has been generated due to the globalization effect of the internet. There continues to be a lot of price variance however, because information is not perfect, the product is a highly personalized service, and client perceptions and tastes are entirely too subjective. There are no real objective criteria to evaluate the product. These are women, not commodities, and it’s my opinion that much of the ill will and cynicism between parties is generated by clients who hold this market view. This will be a free market when your economy resembles that of a third world, where virtually all women who are prostitutes are desperate due to lack of opportunity. Prices for escorts at higher levels tend to hold regardless to whether the individual products are actually “worth” that amount in a free market. A woman will either get her price, make a decision to lower it, or pursue other opportunities if she does not want to market to clients of a certain socioeconomic class. Price kiting is not only about hot bods, youth and desirability, it is about keeping cheap or under funded clients off the merchandise. If Mercedes automobiles were shit, they’d have some real problems. You won’t find them selling at Ford prices, however. What that means is that the only ones who would make themselves affordable to you, are poor to begin with, regardless to price. If an individual high priced escort has a problem, that is hers alone to fix. Only the commodity and low priced end of this market functions on a quasi free market demand/supply.
Relatively speaking, your escorts are just as affordable to you as ours are to us.
EBS
Ice dog:
Understand that the women who set their prices above your comfort level do so because they are not interested in meeting you. To that extent, based on your comments, I take it they have been wildly successful..LOL. They do have the option of going to the US and getting 300 or more USD per hour. Many do, and return to Canada to live off that money. Your glamour high end market is nonexistent because most of them are already down in New York, Miami or LA.
There are practical reasons why you could never achieve the reverse exchange rate scenario. It is more likely you’ll see a further deflation in your currency. But given the scenario, the average US hobbyist would not be going to Toronto, they’d stay at home. Clients with discretionary income, would choose to spend, the same as many Canadians will spend in the US, and many will spend in London. Expect that the average client would not spend money for the average or high end service anywhere where prices are currently higher than the US. The low end hobbyist here in the states will be cruising SOHO and not Central London. That’s his spending habit today. The pound has been kicking the USDs ass as of the last few months. But consider that it traded at well over 2bucks to the USD in 1990.
BTW..more bad news..the actual exchange rate is 1.55 Cdn per USD and not 1.43.
EBS
Understand that the women who set their prices above your comfort level do so because they are not interested in meeting you. To that extent, based on your comments, I take it they have been wildly successful..LOL. They do have the option of going to the US and getting 300 or more USD per hour. Many do, and return to Canada to live off that money. Your glamour high end market is nonexistent because most of them are already down in New York, Miami or LA.
There are practical reasons why you could never achieve the reverse exchange rate scenario. It is more likely you’ll see a further deflation in your currency. But given the scenario, the average US hobbyist would not be going to Toronto, they’d stay at home. Clients with discretionary income, would choose to spend, the same as many Canadians will spend in the US, and many will spend in London. Expect that the average client would not spend money for the average or high end service anywhere where prices are currently higher than the US. The low end hobbyist here in the states will be cruising SOHO and not Central London. That’s his spending habit today. The pound has been kicking the USDs ass as of the last few months. But consider that it traded at well over 2bucks to the USD in 1990.
BTW..more bad news..the actual exchange rate is 1.55 Cdn per USD and not 1.43.
EBS
Last edited:
Re: what about his choice of font size too...
Regards,
EBS
Thanks for your comments Teddybear. I could use a good editor, perhaps even a ghost writer. My skills are just barely adequate to communicate a thought, let alone understand the requirements for italicization.Teddybear said:ebs...you've written about a number of intriguing factors in comparing perceived advantages of canadian sp's over those from not only the u.s, but the america's at large. i enjoyed the thread, and especially enjoyed the idea of cultural relativism that moves through your points...when you can find the funding, this would be a great nfb documentary outline...oh...you could have underscored and italicized a lot more, too...
Regards,
EBS
Ha Ha, very funny EBS, I know you like to take a shot at me whenever you got a chance. No problem, there is always room for jokes and even cheap shots.E_B_Samaritano said:
Seriously, I may give board members (youself included) the impression that I am upset because so many SPS in GTA have hiked their price by more than 50% in the last three years ro so. The truth is I have come to the realization that some are justifed in doing sowhile others are not. If you pay attention, you will know that many hi-end SPs have simply dropped out fo sight since Sept 11, 2001
I know I don't have the kind of money you have, but I have been seeing SPs in the $300 to $350 range regularly. I know it is imposible for the exchange rate to be reversed in the opposite direction in the foreseable future, but the effect of SPs raising their rates by 1.43 or 1.55 times is the same. If that scenario becomes a reality, sure it is bad news for Canadian horny men, but I am afraid many of current SPS will need to find another line of work, because ther are just not that many horny and wealthy people like E_B_S, unless guys like E_B_S start taking heavy dosage of viagara on a daily basis.
Last edited:
My apologies and a discussion of "business" realities..
Ice_dog,
No personal slight was intended. I apologize for my ill conceived attempt at sarcastic humor. I keyed on your remarks which indicated that you are sensitive to the pricing of ladies in the upper ranges, or had a problem with ladies contemplating increases. If you are regularly spending 300-350/hour for services, then price moves shouldn’t phase you. I’d also see no reasons why my comments about pricing would be construed as economic class warfare. The escorts contemplating a price increase were considering going from the median 220 to the upper ranges 300 and up. There is still an abundance of excellent ladies available at 200-250. Clients used of paying that median range would normally be the ones bitching. Above all you’ll find that your ladies are just as expensive in Canada to their local constituents, as we find that ours are in the states.
That being said, I'm going to touch on some additional thoughts about pricing and business practices.
Respectfully,
EBS
Ice_dog,
No personal slight was intended. I apologize for my ill conceived attempt at sarcastic humor. I keyed on your remarks which indicated that you are sensitive to the pricing of ladies in the upper ranges, or had a problem with ladies contemplating increases. If you are regularly spending 300-350/hour for services, then price moves shouldn’t phase you. I’d also see no reasons why my comments about pricing would be construed as economic class warfare. The escorts contemplating a price increase were considering going from the median 220 to the upper ranges 300 and up. There is still an abundance of excellent ladies available at 200-250. Clients used of paying that median range would normally be the ones bitching. Above all you’ll find that your ladies are just as expensive in Canada to their local constituents, as we find that ours are in the states.
That being said, I'm going to touch on some additional thoughts about pricing and business practices.
Respectfully,
EBS
Last edited:
Pricing Dynamics in the Escort Business
I posted comments re: price versus quality/price movements in a down market on the board last year (Aug/Sept 2001(?)) in response to a pricing debate that erupted. As I recall, that started or should I say continued the firestorm. In those remarks I offered opinions on the market forces/psychology of pricing in the higher end of the market. Not the least of those is that in the midst of economic downturn, QUALITY ladies in the upper brackets will leave the market or relocate to more lucrative environments as opposed to dropping their price. They are most often not processing volume and can be more selective. Their clients are least affected by the downturn, all other factors notwithstanding. There is no question that during the period of irrational exuberance, that there were many poor quality escorts in that higher end workforce. There were also many “neuvo riche” clients who availed themselves of the more expensive bracket. The poor escorts in these upper brackets are often the ones whose only choice is to drop their price. The neuvo riche clients fall back to the median market. The bottom feeders may regress to Playboy and the “palm sisters” or start cruising looking for bargains. Despite a recession the price for the upper bracket remains the same. This is because there is a psychological price point at which it doesn’t make sense for ladies with choices to consider escorting as a desirable means of income. Price competition modeling a commodity market with elastic pricing is found only at the lower end of the market.
Here in the SF Bay area, prices for quality service have hardly declined. This is despite the fact that we are in the worst economic recession that I’ve witnessed in my 28 years of residence. We have seen a large influx of providers at the low end of the market who were previously street walkers. These ladies have discovered online boards such as this and now advertise their “specials”. Their customers are the bottom feeders who are most affected by the recession. There are clients who have slowed or stopped usage of escorts altogether rather than use the services of these ladies. The guys crowing about the new price decline are actually getting a real taste of quality from the streets. I am ROTFLMAO over the complaints registered on the rip off boards. Streetwalkers are used of 10 minute tricks, not hour long engagements. I’ve also found that stripper mentality applied to escorting is a poor combination as well. The effect of an economic downtown is a compression at lower levels where the poor quality gets dumped.
The established providers charging 300 and above have held their pricing if not increased it. Suppose a lady seeing 1 or 2 clients daily gets 10 inquiries a day. If for whatever reason inquiries drop to 5, she is unfettered. Ladies running assembly lines get real nervous when the call volume goes down. Agencies reach the same dilemma, and many ladies discover that if they must remain in the business, that they are better off as an independent. In essence, they can maintain their income taking on only half the calls. Agencies have fixed overhead, they can’t significantly cut their prices.
cont...
I posted comments re: price versus quality/price movements in a down market on the board last year (Aug/Sept 2001(?)) in response to a pricing debate that erupted. As I recall, that started or should I say continued the firestorm. In those remarks I offered opinions on the market forces/psychology of pricing in the higher end of the market. Not the least of those is that in the midst of economic downturn, QUALITY ladies in the upper brackets will leave the market or relocate to more lucrative environments as opposed to dropping their price. They are most often not processing volume and can be more selective. Their clients are least affected by the downturn, all other factors notwithstanding. There is no question that during the period of irrational exuberance, that there were many poor quality escorts in that higher end workforce. There were also many “neuvo riche” clients who availed themselves of the more expensive bracket. The poor escorts in these upper brackets are often the ones whose only choice is to drop their price. The neuvo riche clients fall back to the median market. The bottom feeders may regress to Playboy and the “palm sisters” or start cruising looking for bargains. Despite a recession the price for the upper bracket remains the same. This is because there is a psychological price point at which it doesn’t make sense for ladies with choices to consider escorting as a desirable means of income. Price competition modeling a commodity market with elastic pricing is found only at the lower end of the market.
Here in the SF Bay area, prices for quality service have hardly declined. This is despite the fact that we are in the worst economic recession that I’ve witnessed in my 28 years of residence. We have seen a large influx of providers at the low end of the market who were previously street walkers. These ladies have discovered online boards such as this and now advertise their “specials”. Their customers are the bottom feeders who are most affected by the recession. There are clients who have slowed or stopped usage of escorts altogether rather than use the services of these ladies. The guys crowing about the new price decline are actually getting a real taste of quality from the streets. I am ROTFLMAO over the complaints registered on the rip off boards. Streetwalkers are used of 10 minute tricks, not hour long engagements. I’ve also found that stripper mentality applied to escorting is a poor combination as well. The effect of an economic downtown is a compression at lower levels where the poor quality gets dumped.
The established providers charging 300 and above have held their pricing if not increased it. Suppose a lady seeing 1 or 2 clients daily gets 10 inquiries a day. If for whatever reason inquiries drop to 5, she is unfettered. Ladies running assembly lines get real nervous when the call volume goes down. Agencies reach the same dilemma, and many ladies discover that if they must remain in the business, that they are better off as an independent. In essence, they can maintain their income taking on only half the calls. Agencies have fixed overhead, they can’t significantly cut their prices.
cont...
Pricing Dynamics in the Escort Business..cont.
Higher prices are most often associated with young attractive escorts. There is a market segment that will pay for her looks, even if she is a dead fish. SPs who desire a certain kind of clientele, often use pricing as a first order screen. They know that clients on a budget are less likely to inquire if they set their pricing above median. Demographics dictate that these prices are more likely to attract older more affluent clientele. The screening process may lose some “good guys”, but by and far it screens off the “bad guys” in larger numbers. The definition of “goodness” is subjective to the SP in question.
Another technique to screen clientele is to have a minimum 2 hour requirement. This attracts a client looking for a more relaxed multi-hour session. Ladies know the difference in client demographics for clients solicited via internet advertising versus those obtained through the newspaper. They even know certain sites on the internet yield a significant difference in client demographics. Escorts who offer half hours are assembly lines trying to maximize income. Oddly enough, their customers are often the most vocal about quality or lack thereof. How many times have we heard of a guy going to a cheap incall and complaining that the place is a dump or that he was rushed? What does GFE mean in a 30 minute quickie? I think the term is so often misused in reviews that it’s asinine.
As is the case in the escort business, market turnover in TO has always been brisk. Ladies come and go for all types of reasons, independent of the prevailing economic conditions. I don’t believe overall numbers in the market at any price level have decreased. Yes, some high end providers have left altogether. But so have many moderately priced 200/hr. providers. Turnover on the bottom end is even higher. There are new independents in the market that have backfilled those positions. The largest TO agency dealing in higher end ladies, hasn’t scaled back its operation, In fact it broke out a new price tier in the face of declining economic conditions. In addition there are a couple more agencies at the high end that didn’t exist prior to 9/11 recession. I can point to at least one independent formerly from an agency at 220/hr and now has a firm price of 300/hour. She offers a quality experience and appeals to the kind of client she wishes to meet. On the other hand there is a marginal young hot-bodied escort who went that same route. Her pricing apparently didn’t hold. I think she’s advertising on priceline now at last report. Her clients who saw her at 200/hour wouldn’t or couldn’t afford the jump in price. She was a novelty at 200, a waste of time to clients who could readily afford her new pricing.
EBS
Higher prices are most often associated with young attractive escorts. There is a market segment that will pay for her looks, even if she is a dead fish. SPs who desire a certain kind of clientele, often use pricing as a first order screen. They know that clients on a budget are less likely to inquire if they set their pricing above median. Demographics dictate that these prices are more likely to attract older more affluent clientele. The screening process may lose some “good guys”, but by and far it screens off the “bad guys” in larger numbers. The definition of “goodness” is subjective to the SP in question.
Another technique to screen clientele is to have a minimum 2 hour requirement. This attracts a client looking for a more relaxed multi-hour session. Ladies know the difference in client demographics for clients solicited via internet advertising versus those obtained through the newspaper. They even know certain sites on the internet yield a significant difference in client demographics. Escorts who offer half hours are assembly lines trying to maximize income. Oddly enough, their customers are often the most vocal about quality or lack thereof. How many times have we heard of a guy going to a cheap incall and complaining that the place is a dump or that he was rushed? What does GFE mean in a 30 minute quickie? I think the term is so often misused in reviews that it’s asinine.
As is the case in the escort business, market turnover in TO has always been brisk. Ladies come and go for all types of reasons, independent of the prevailing economic conditions. I don’t believe overall numbers in the market at any price level have decreased. Yes, some high end providers have left altogether. But so have many moderately priced 200/hr. providers. Turnover on the bottom end is even higher. There are new independents in the market that have backfilled those positions. The largest TO agency dealing in higher end ladies, hasn’t scaled back its operation, In fact it broke out a new price tier in the face of declining economic conditions. In addition there are a couple more agencies at the high end that didn’t exist prior to 9/11 recession. I can point to at least one independent formerly from an agency at 220/hr and now has a firm price of 300/hour. She offers a quality experience and appeals to the kind of client she wishes to meet. On the other hand there is a marginal young hot-bodied escort who went that same route. Her pricing apparently didn’t hold. I think she’s advertising on priceline now at last report. Her clients who saw her at 200/hour wouldn’t or couldn’t afford the jump in price. She was a novelty at 200, a waste of time to clients who could readily afford her new pricing.
EBS
