Apple Pay Works....

[GameBoy27]

I don't know about the sliced bread but it's vastly more secure than a merchant having your credit card details.

I've had credit cards for over 30 years and a debit card since they came out in the mid-90's. I also buy lots of stuff on-line and not once have I had to report a fraudulent transaction. Besides, you're never on the hook for fraud.

I think it's a good idea for Americans who have been more reluctant to move away from cash. Canadians have been far quicker to pick up on alternate pay technologies. Tapping a card is the same thing as tapping a phone.

Until the government lets us carry electronic ID on our phones, using iPay contains no real benefit that I can see (and I'd rather trust/hold accountable my credit card company than have to worry about 2 separate companies passing the/my bucks).

Good point, as we have already seen with Bank of America and Apple.

 

[onthebottom]

I've had credit cards for over 30 years and a debit card since they came out in the mid-90's. I also buy lots of stuff on-line and not once have I had to report a fraudulent transaction. Besides, you're never on the hook for fraud.

You can't be unaware of the spiraling credit card and identity fraud, Target, Home Depot.... The fact that it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it isn't happening or it won't. That's a childish view.

 

[benstt]

You can't be unaware of the spiraling credit card and identity fraud, Target, Home Depot.... The fact that it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it isn't happening or it won't. That's a childish view.

OTB, i respect your enthusiasm, but need to remind again that EMV and tokenization are what make the difference here, and it is good to see the US adopting them. Tokenization will help with online transaction security, and EMV (chip and pin) helps with retail point of sale security. The US is waaay behind Canada on this path.

Here's an article from February.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-standard-to-secure-credit-card-payments.html

However, after the recent Target breach that exposed data on 40 million debit and credit cards, calls to adopt the standard in the U.S. have become more strident. MasterCard and Visa have said they want merchants and banks to be ready to start accepting EMV cards by October 2015.

While the planned migration has its benefits, EMV is not quite the panacea that many assume it is, Fortney said. "The downside with EMV is that it was created when there was no Internet, no online commerce, no smartphones and no tablets."

While EMV is great for securing card transactions at point-of-sale terminals, it is less useful for online payments and other card-not-present transactions. That is one of the major reasons why payment card fraud has migrated from point-of-sale systems to online channels in Europe and other places that have already adopted EMV.

Payment card tokenization is one way to address this gap, Fortney noted.

Tokenization is a method for protecting card data by substituting a card's Primary Account Number (PAN) with a unique, randomly generated sequence of numbers, alphanumeric characters, or a combination of a truncated PAN and a random alphanumeric sequence.

 

[basketcase]

You can't be unaware of the spiraling credit card and identity fraud, Target, Home Depot.... The fact that it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it isn't happening or it won't. That's a childish view.

From what I see, apple is just adding another layer to payments which means another place where hackers can access information. Of course the fact is that a significant portion of the fraud is user error and apple isn't about to stop people from being stupid with their privacy.

Like many Canadians I've been using paypass (etc) for years and apple pay doesn't make things any easier.

 

[onthebottom]

From what I see, apple is just adding another layer to payments which means another place where hackers can access information. Of course the fact is that a significant portion of the fraud is user error and apple isn't about to stop people from being stupid with their privacy.

Like many Canadians I've been using paypass (etc) for years and apple pay doesn't make things any easier.

You should go read up on the approach - there is much written, even here, you're wrong on the security issue but then you being wrong and you realizing you're wrong are two very different things.

Here is one: http://mashable.com/2014/10/23/apple-pay-is-more-secure-than-your-credit-and-debit-cards/

 

[onthebottom]

OTB, i respect your enthusiasm, but need to remind again that EMV and tokenization are what make the difference here, and it is good to see the US adopting them. Tokenization will help with online transaction security, and EMV (chip and pin) helps with retail point of sale security. The US is waaay behind Canada on this path.

Here's an article from February.

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-standard-to-secure-credit-card-payments.html

However, after the recent Target breach that exposed data on 40 million debit and credit cards, calls to adopt the standard in the U.S. have become more strident. MasterCard and Visa have said they want merchants and banks to be ready to start accepting EMV cards by October 2015.

While the planned migration has its benefits, EMV is not quite the panacea that many assume it is, Fortney said. "The downside with EMV is that it was created when there was no Internet, no online commerce, no smartphones and no tablets."

While EMV is great for securing card transactions at point-of-sale terminals, it is less useful for online payments and other card-not-present transactions. That is one of the major reasons why payment card fraud has migrated from point-of-sale systems to online channels in Europe and other places that have already adopted EMV.

Payment card tokenization is one way to address this gap, Fortney noted.

Tokenization is a method for protecting card data by substituting a card's Primary Account Number (PAN) with a unique, randomly generated sequence of numbers, alphanumeric characters, or a combination of a truncated PAN and a random alphanumeric sequence.

US is behind on adoption, you are aware that the regulations are chaining in the US AND that Apple Pay can be used for online purchases as well?

 

[benstt]

US is behind on adoption, you are aware that the regulations are chaining in the US AND that Apple Pay can be used for online purchases as well?

Yes, this is what I've telling you, and why I posted the article.

 

[basketcase]

You should go read up on the approach - there is much written, even here, you're wrong on the security issue but then you being wrong and you realizing you're wrong are two very different things.

Here is one: http://mashable.com/2014/10/23/apple-pay-is-more-secure-than-your-credit-and-debit-cards/

Oh I've read but with this system not providing any more convenience than what I do now, I'd rather deal with just my credit card company (who's been very good about dealing with potential fraud) than leave room to two companies to argue over who's to blame.

If apple can convince governments to authorize virtual ID, the an ewallet would be advantageous. Until then...

 

[onthebottom]

Oh I've read but with this system not providing any more convenience than what I do now, I'd rather deal with just my credit card company (who's been very good about dealing with potential fraud) than leave room to two companies to argue over who's to blame.

If apple can convince governments to authorize virtual ID, the an ewallet would be advantageous. Until then...

Your happy for all of the places you use your credit card to have your credit card details?

 

[basketcase]

Your happy for all of the places you use your credit card to have your credit card details?

I know paypass is something you Americans haven't figured out yet but all I need to do is touch my card to the machine. If it's a bigger purchase, I stick my card in the machine and enter my pin. I can't remember the last time my CC has left my grip. And based on the great service I have had from my CC company, it's not a huge worry.

And anyone with half a brain knows that there is a continual battle between hackers and security. I can guarantee that there will some kind of breech of apple pay just like there has been for other systems. Unless apple makes paying far more convenient, all it comes down to who you trust to quickly deal with problems when they occur and with apple, I need to double the trust with both them and my bank.

 

[onthebottom]

I know paypass is something you Americans haven't figured out yet but all I need to do is touch my card to the machine. If it's a bigger purchase, I stick my card in the machine and enter my pin. I can't remember the last time my CC has left my grip. And based on the great service I have had from my CC company, it's not a huge worry.

And anyone with half a brain knows that there is a continual battle between hackers and security. I can guarantee that there will some kind of breech of apple pay just like there has been for other systems. Unless apple makes paying far more convenient, all it comes down to who you trust to quickly deal with problems when they occur and with apple, I need to double the trust with both them and my bank.

There is a reason the banks are giving Apple 15bp, and it's because of security not the kindness of their hearts. The banks carry the fraud risk.

Used it twice at Pearson today, worked great with a U.S. Amex card.

 

[Butler1000]

So this will only be available to Apple users?

Sony tried that once......I think it was called the BetaMax........

Until they open it up its a niche market. Create a way for other sytems to use it. How many transactions are mom and pop? And will they want to pay another percentage?

 

[benstt]

There is a reason the banks are giving Apple 15bp, and it's because of security not the kindness of their hearts. The banks carry the fraud risk.

The fraud risk is being pushed out to the merchants if they don't go EMV, that's one of the sticks the card issuers are using.

 

[onthebottom]

So this will only be available to Apple users?

Sony tried that once......I think it was called the BetaMax........

Until they open it up its a niche market. Create a way for other sytems to use it. How many transactions are mom and pop? And will they want to pay another percentage?

No, the NFC terminals can be used by any payment method.

 

[onthebottom]

The fraud risk is being pushed out to the merchants if they don't go EMV, that's one of the sticks the card issuers are using.

Which will drive mass adoption by merchants in 2015.

Apple had 1m Apple Pay activations in the first 72 hours.

 

[benstt]

No, the NFC terminals can be used by any payment method.

The apple pay wallet is only available for apple.

The backend standards that Apple Pay uses can be used by other wallets as they implement them.

Apple pay's relationship to the card systems is the equivalent of a safari browser to the Internet,

 

[onthebottom]

The apple pay wallet is only available for apple.

The backend standards that Apple Pay uses can be used by other wallets as they implement them.

Apple pay's relationship to the card systems is the equivalent of a safari browser to the Internet,

This is a bit Captain Obvious, that said the banks, retailers and other tech firms all have different strategies and value propositions to consumers. Google wants to keep your purchasing behavior and sell it to advertisers, retailers want to Capture your payment details and sell you other things using loyalty programs. The banks want to make their payments products more sticky.

 

[benstt]

This is a bit Captain Obvious, that said the banks, retailers and other tech firms all have different strategies and value propositions to consumers. Google wants to keep your purchasing behavior and sell it to advertisers, retailers want to Capture your payment details and sell you other things using loyalty programs. The banks want to make their payments products more sticky.

I was clarifying, as I think people are unclear on what parts are apple pay vs what parts are standards from the card companies.

Here's a new article about retailers blocking apple pay, which knocks Google wallet out too, as they both use the same NFC/EMV standards:

http://www.droid-life.com/2014/10/2...ck-apple-pay-which-also-blocks-google-wallet/

 

[onthebottom]

I was clarifying, as I think people are unclear on what parts are apple pay vs what parts are standards from the card companies.

Here's a new article about retailers blocking apple pay, which knocks Google wallet out too, as they both use the same NFC/EMV standards:

http://www.droid-life.com/2014/10/2...ck-apple-pay-which-also-blocks-google-wallet/

It's a little simplistic, they still have to pay the cc fees, what they really want (and what all the competitors hate about Apple Pay) is the customer data.

 

[onthebottom]

Interesting Article on Apple Pays competitive position:

Can Apple win the mobile wallet war?

Apple Pay is gaining traction for two big reasons: convenience and security.

"It really comes back to the path of least resistance. Apple has the quickest, most simple solution. If making mobile payments becomes too many steps, then people won't use it," said Lou Basenese, founder of Disruptive Tech Research.
Unlike some rival mobile wallets, Apple Pay does not require users to even open an app for use. The user can just hold the iPhone 6 near the contactless reader while holding their finger on the Touch ID to make a transaction.

Apple's approach to security is also a big driver for its adoption among banks, retailers and consumers.

The tokenization system built into Apple Pay is considered one of the most secure, fraud-proof ways to make payments, because it keeps consumers' actual credit card data from ever entering a retailer's point-of-sale system. Not to mention, it also uses Touch ID for biometric verification, which adds another layer of protection.

This is very interesting, 45% of Android users in the US would be willing to switch to iOS to get Apple Pay...

http://blog.lab42.com/mobile-pay-apple-pay-insights