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tarkovsky

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May 29, 2005
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I've worked out on and off over the years, but lately I've been pretty good about staying disciplined and getting a good routine. Now I want to get big. I know you're supposed to eat like 10 meals a day but obviously that's crazy. I've been looking into those diet supplements and just wanted people's advice/ experience.

My doctor says to stay away from creatine because it kills your liver. I think I want to try a whey protein and maybe a meal replacement shake too. Can anyone recommend a "healthy" version of these (least amount of chemicals, etc) and what your experience has been? Are you supposed to limit how often you take these per week?

I know it's going to come up, so in advance, no I don't want to juice up ala Barry Bonds.
 
Supplementing the workout

tarkovsky said:
I've worked out on and off over the years, but lately I've been pretty good about staying disciplined and getting a good routine. Now I want to get big. I know you're supposed to eat like 10 meals a day but obviously that's crazy. I've been looking into those diet supplements and just wanted people's advice/ experience.

My doctor says to stay away from creatine because it kills your liver. I think I want to try a whey protein and maybe a meal replacement shake too. Can anyone recommend a "healthy" version of these (least amount of chemicals, etc) and what your experience has been? Are you supposed to limit how often you take these per week?

I know it's going to come up, so in advance, no I don't want to juice up ala Barry Bonds.
Click to expand...


"Creatine" as such, does not "kill your liver". It is a natural component of skeletal muscle-mass and is metabolized in BOTH the liver and the kidneys. Creatine,as you understand, is also a dietary supplement (creatine monohydrate) which is commonly used by sport professionals to enhance their normal dietary intake in order to increase muscle mass and strength.

However, there may be side-effects (not scientifically ascertained so far as I know); so it may be advisable to have periodic liver-function teats to be sure that any supplement you use does not adversely affect you creatine levels (AST, ALT etc).

Those involved in sport medicine suggest a cautious approach to a dietary supplement program would be (say) 3-5 grams (1/4-1/2 tsp. of creatine monohydrate daily for 3 weeks and 3 grams (3/4 tsp.) 2-4 times a week thereafter with one week off between each three-week period.

Though related, don't confound creatine with serum creatinine. The latter is the breakdown product of creatine and is excreted ("clearance") by the kidneys alone. Serum creatinine levels are relevant to kidney function in general and several forms of kidney disease (and other consequential diseases such as muscular dystrophy). This can also be measured by blood samples, urine output and creatinine clearance and biopsy etc.

Of course, you should discuss your aims etc. with a knowledgeable sport-physician or even a G.P. and get his/her advise since these plus your weight, age, size, musculature etc. are all relevant to reponsible stewardship of you goals and careful monitoring.
 
my tips....

First of all the most important thing is to eat quality food, more so than the supplements. I find that most supplements make you retain too much water and leave you looking blotted. Try and eat good sources of protein like fish, chicken, eggs and beef. Also carbs such as rice, pasta, yams and potatoes.

The second most important thing is proper weight training. If you are training to bulk up and gain weight you’ll have to use heavy weights for short work-outs, with low reps and sets. Focus on the compound exercises which work more than one body part. Bench and incline bench press for chest, bent over bar bell rows and dead lifts for back, military presses and shrugs for shoulders and traps, barbell curls for biceps, dips for triceps and squats for legs. Those are all good compound exercises.

Finally, give yourself enough rest between workouts. Do not train each muscle more than twice per week, and do not work out more than four times per week. Doing so will limit you chances of growth.

Hope this helps. These principles got me to 240 lbs, with 18 arms and a max bench press of 335 lbs.
 
Oops, sorry I didn't mean to offend creatine users. I badly paraphrazed what my doctor said. Basically he didn't want me to get on the creatine because as Aircraft pointed out, there are long term unknown side effects on the liver. I am an ex-smoker so I don't want to add even more long term damages on my system. However, I don't judge or criticize those who do use any such products.

What I want is the "healthiest" version of these supplements, specifically whey protein and meal replacement shakes. Some must be less harmful for you than others (my doctor is against any kind of supplements btw).

John Holmes: thank you very much for the great breakdown of your routine. I'm guessing you might be one of the genetically "gifted" though. I am one of those fat-skinny guys, i.e. I eat pretty well but the only weight gain is around my lower mid-section. Eating all those additional lean meats is expensive. So I figured adding a whey protein fix or a meal supplement shake to my regular, pretty decent diet might might help my skinny arms. So are you against these meal supplements?

Does anyone have any experience with whey protein or shakes? Can anyone recommend the best ones in terms of the least amount of additives/ chemicals.
 
I've also heard that creatine is bad for your liver/kidneys down the road or whatever else is out there. But at the same time, i hear that if you take it before your workout, thats whats bad. Your suppose to take it after workout, it restores the energy you've used on the workout.
Personally, I dont think creatine is something you really need to stay on for a long time. I mainly took it to give me a jump on my workout/max early on.
I took it last year, i had a 5lb i believe, lasted me thru the summer and more, and after that i stopped. I've lost some of the weight i gained last year cuz i havent been working out much lately. But am thinking of going on creatine again just to give me a little boost at the start.
I also had Dynamite Elite protein, 3 times a day. morning, after workout, night. By far the best 1 i've had. Taking that and Creatine gave me good results. Goto SND for any of your supplements, way cheaper than place like gnc
 
Wait a minute isn't creatine the stuff that is found in carrots? If you eat to much carrots you become jauntice?

Where the @#$ is doctor Ruth when you need her.
 
Workout carrots

I think you chaps are thinking of Beta (and Alpha) Carotene and other carotenoids as a food source in carrots and other veggies. But this does not really entail anything noteworthy to do with creatine as such except as linguistic play.

There is some evidence that large quantities of carrots have some bearing on eyesight. But then, just about everything we eat has a bearing on health (and behaviour).

The most radical exhibition that I have ever observed of the significance of carrots as a vegetable having impact on human beings, took place, for me, some years back when I was visiting The University of Paris, in France some while back.

Proximate to the University is Boulevard Raspail where frequently prostitutes used to congregate in groups on the lookout for someone to pick one or more of the group for an interlude. I got to know these girls quite well and would often "stroll" with them up the street to "Boule-Miche" (Boulevard St. Michelle) and to the famous "La Coupole".

Unfortunately, there was some jerk from the student quarter who would frequently saunter up the street mouthing obscenities at these lovely young women as they tried to ply their trade.

One evening, just after I had joined the parade for camraderie on my break from a studious routine, this guy came along and started in with his harangue. Alas, for him, the girls on this occasion had come prepared: they surrounded him and physically divested him of his pants and underwear and stuck a huge -and I mean huge- carrot up his fitznarris.

Whereupon they forced him to hobble painfully with them up to La Coupole and then forcefully pushed him through the entrance.

From thence forward, this guy was virtually invisible on that street.

I don't know the utility of carrots alone to human well-being. But these girls quite certainly showed how they can have an effect on human conduct.
 
Aircraft said:
I think you chaps are thinking of Beta (and Alpha) Carotene and other carotenoids as a food source in carrots and other veggies. But this does not really entail anything noteworthy to do with creatine as such except as linguistic play.

There is some evidence that large quantities of carrots have some bearing on eyesight. But then, just about everything we eat has a bearing on health (and behaviour).
Click to expand...

Beta Carotene is what I was replying to. No relevance to workout supplements. You're right with carrort & eyesight but it's very extreme consumption. Just like overdose on Vitamins have similiar side-effects.
 
Eat 3 good meals a day, balance your carbs and protiens always have some fruit for snacks and get to a shrink as soon as possible to address your self esteem and body image conflicts. You guys are so out to lunch.
bd
 
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