Anyone watching the Ryder Cup...
- Thread starter Pargolfer
- Start date
I'll never understand why the Americans dominate in individual tourneys but fall apart in The Ryder Cup. WTF. Sergio is a huge choker but plays well in the RC as well.Pargolfer said:
Americans down after Saturday morning matches
Its 7and 1/2 to 4 and 1/2 in favour of Europe going into the afternoon matches..
Its 7and 1/2 to 4 and 1/2 in favour of Europe going into the afternoon matches..
The US is going down, short of a miraculous rebound in individual play. The rain isn't helping, but oddly doesn't seem to bother the Europeans at all. The US in the Ryder Cup is beginning to remind me of the US Olympic basketball team. Great individually, not always so great as a team.
Its...
...a cultural thing. Not so much the U.S. per say...but the nature of the tours.
On the PGA tour the guys COMPETE for 1 millon+ dollar purses, plus the visability to make more millions in endorsements. There are very few "friends" on the tour...and even fewer amonst guys of comparable talent...so "friends" don't end up on the Ryder Cup team together. When they do...Freddie Couples and Davis Love.....Tiger and Mark O'Mera.....they do well. Why? Because they are in the habit of playing together all the time.
On the Euro tour, the pressure isn't nearly as high. Yes, the guys all want to win, but really - it is just a big fun free for all. The stakes aren't as high (from either a purse or endorsement stand point), so when someone does well, everybody is happy for him. I'm not saying the guys aren't competitive and don't want to win...I am saying they don't resent it when another guy does.
The result? The guys on the Euro tour ARE friends (many of them). Clarke and Westwood. Donald and Garcia. Harrington and McGinnty. These guys actually DO play together...a lot. They know each others game. They gel...as a team.
When it is a one on one battle, man-o-man, same course...the U.S. usually wins...hence the U.S. lead in singles play, even in recent years. But the U.S. TEAM does not play well...at least not in pairings.
Want a more even comparison? Look at President's cup. There it is more comparable...the U.S. all star squad of individuals versus a All star team of players from around the world. U.S. usually wins....because the "make up" of the teams are similar, making it more of a contest of golf skill / talent on an individual basis....
ragingbull666 said:
...a cultural thing. Not so much the U.S. per say...but the nature of the tours.
On the PGA tour the guys COMPETE for 1 millon+ dollar purses, plus the visability to make more millions in endorsements. There are very few "friends" on the tour...and even fewer amonst guys of comparable talent...so "friends" don't end up on the Ryder Cup team together. When they do...Freddie Couples and Davis Love.....Tiger and Mark O'Mera.....they do well. Why? Because they are in the habit of playing together all the time.
On the Euro tour, the pressure isn't nearly as high. Yes, the guys all want to win, but really - it is just a big fun free for all. The stakes aren't as high (from either a purse or endorsement stand point), so when someone does well, everybody is happy for him. I'm not saying the guys aren't competitive and don't want to win...I am saying they don't resent it when another guy does.
The result? The guys on the Euro tour ARE friends (many of them). Clarke and Westwood. Donald and Garcia. Harrington and McGinnty. These guys actually DO play together...a lot. They know each others game. They gel...as a team.
When it is a one on one battle, man-o-man, same course...the U.S. usually wins...hence the U.S. lead in singles play, even in recent years. But the U.S. TEAM does not play well...at least not in pairings.
Want a more even comparison? Look at President's cup. There it is more comparable...the U.S. all star squad of individuals versus a All star team of players from around the world. U.S. usually wins....because the "make up" of the teams are similar, making it more of a contest of golf skill / talent on an individual basis....
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The Yanks are individuals, well paid for mediocrity. In many sports the Yanks win on talent, but when their rival improve and team play becomes crucial, they get beat. In golf, look at basketball, hockey - they are talented but never dominant - even in baseball, other nations are catching up because of team play. Seems like other pro athletes still have pride in playing for their country, moreso than Americans where the focus is on the individual.
In gold the average player is a zillionaire on the U,S.Tour, the Yanks lack that extra hunger. There are exceptions of course, like Tiger & Furyk, but others are less than stellar.
Will someone ask Gord Stellick to take Phil to a Herbal Magic meeting please?
In gold the average player is a zillionaire on the U,S.Tour, the Yanks lack that extra hunger. There are exceptions of course, like Tiger & Furyk, but others are less than stellar.
Will someone ask Gord Stellick to take Phil to a Herbal Magic meeting please?
Great analysis by MLAM above!
From the network that brought us the tape delayed Olympics, now it's the tape delayed Ryder Cup. At least the Sunday coverage is live.
From the network that brought us the tape delayed Olympics, now it's the tape delayed Ryder Cup. At least the Sunday coverage is live.
Stick the fork in...
the Americans are finished.Even Johnnie Miller on NBC can't help them.....Now let the excuses begin...
the Americans are finished.Even Johnnie Miller on NBC can't help them.....Now let the excuses begin...
I'm sure everybody feels soooo bad for Phil Mickelson. He must be inconsolable with his lack of ability to help his teammates do their country proud. I forget the exact numbers but doesn't he have something like 1 1/2 points after 12 matches or so? I think the honourable thing for him to do would be to decline future opportunities to play. Maybe he should just retire altogether.
FIGJAM indeed.
FIGJAM indeed.
You...
Did you watch the entire match? Did you see how much the players HUNGERED to win? Did you see the Ryder Cup @ Brookline (The Country Club)? Did you see how jubilant the Americans were to win?
It doesn't have SHIT to do with "pride in playing for their country". But of course, you would know because you know these men, and know Americans as a whole, right?
It is what I said it is. It is a format with which they are unfamiliar, which calls for soft skills which they do not get a chance to hone. Golf is by DEFINITION an individual sport, played by men who are committed to beating each others brains out. You simply don't practice playing with someone as a teammate very often, except socially perhaps....which is what the Euros do.
If it were 3 days of singles matches, like team golf is in High School and College, the U.S. would kick their asses. If both teams were formed the same way....with the members having little to no personal relationships between them...the U.S. would kick their asses (as I pointed out - President's Cup, which the U.S. typically wins).
I am taking nothing away from the Euros. They are fine, fine, fine golfers, and they play well together, and they also are well "managed"...they still play and act very loose, even though this time they were the favorite. All this works to their advantage.
But this statement...
" Seems like other pro athletes still have pride in playing for their country, more so than Americans where the focus is on the individual."
...is just arrogant ignorance.
...are mostly wrong, but I doubt if anyone could talk you out of your opinion.Coach said:
Did you watch the entire match? Did you see how much the players HUNGERED to win? Did you see the Ryder Cup @ Brookline (The Country Club)? Did you see how jubilant the Americans were to win?
It doesn't have SHIT to do with "pride in playing for their country". But of course, you would know because you know these men, and know Americans as a whole, right?
It is what I said it is. It is a format with which they are unfamiliar, which calls for soft skills which they do not get a chance to hone. Golf is by DEFINITION an individual sport, played by men who are committed to beating each others brains out. You simply don't practice playing with someone as a teammate very often, except socially perhaps....which is what the Euros do.
If it were 3 days of singles matches, like team golf is in High School and College, the U.S. would kick their asses. If both teams were formed the same way....with the members having little to no personal relationships between them...the U.S. would kick their asses (as I pointed out - President's Cup, which the U.S. typically wins).
I am taking nothing away from the Euros. They are fine, fine, fine golfers, and they play well together, and they also are well "managed"...they still play and act very loose, even though this time they were the favorite. All this works to their advantage.
But this statement...
" Seems like other pro athletes still have pride in playing for their country, more so than Americans where the focus is on the individual."
...is just arrogant ignorance.
Daren Clarke likely to be UK sportsperson of the year. I'm sure he'd give that and all his wins over the last few days to have his wife back. Lovely enduring moments of him being cangratulated by Tiger. Puts sport in the right perspective but can help a bit in those horrible circumstances. 
ok a little late in responding to this but anyone notice the double standard where the US basketball team dont win the gold medal and are all bums and only care about their bling bling, while the US Ryder cup team well thats ok that they lost we still love them can you say racism boys and girls??
also there is talk of expanding the US side to a world side to include Canadians, Aussies and there is even a Fijian guy I heard about on the PGA thats suppose to be pretty good
also there is talk of expanding the US side to a world side to include Canadians, Aussies and there is even a Fijian guy I heard about on the PGA thats suppose to be pretty good
