anit-depression drugs
- Thread starter jimjam
- Start date
Psychiatry is junk science and SSRIs are a terrible and damaging fraud that is being perpetrated on an entire generation of people looking for a quick drug fix rather than getting to the root causes of their so-called problems. I mean, come on... I once saw a commercial on TV for Paxil(tm) shortly after after it had been approved by the U.S. FDA to treat something called "social anxiety disorder" (read: basic human shyness that most of us "suffer" from). The slogan was "Your life is waiting..." Gimme a break.
Dodebox, I know for a fact I have social anxiety order. Its not an excuess. I hate going to malls ( to many people around) I failed many classes in school because of front of the class presentations. I even hate sunny days walking outside because of many people can see me.
Because of TERB this is the most outspoken I`ve been in years.
Because of TERB this is the most outspoken I`ve been in years.
jimjam,
You know what? So do I, although I recognize it for what it is rather than try and label it as a "disorder" and get hooked for life on a damaging, expensive and addictive drug in order to deal with it (well... unless you count things like Heineken, Wisers, Pot, Hash, Ketamine and Cocaine. Mmmm... substances
)
I have had exactly two girlfriends in my entire 31 year-old life, although I feel pretty damn strongly that the current one is probably "The One" provided we can overcome some issues that have been testing our otherwise idyllic relationship as of late. On that note, I have never asked a girl out on a date, or even approached one at a bar and started a conversation. For that matter, pretty much all of the friends I have started the initial conversation with me upon meeting and not the other way around.
I too have failed least one class and barely made it through others due to presentation-related shit, and can't even make eye contact with strangers without feeling uncomfortable somehow. Frankly, I am amazed that I have such a good job and decent life despite the fact that I have to work up the guts to make a dentist's appointment over the freaking phone for christsakes.
Does this suck? More than a little. Is it a "disorder"? NO! It's just me.
You know what? So do I, although I recognize it for what it is rather than try and label it as a "disorder" and get hooked for life on a damaging, expensive and addictive drug in order to deal with it (well... unless you count things like Heineken, Wisers, Pot, Hash, Ketamine and Cocaine. Mmmm... substances
)I have had exactly two girlfriends in my entire 31 year-old life, although I feel pretty damn strongly that the current one is probably "The One" provided we can overcome some issues that have been testing our otherwise idyllic relationship as of late. On that note, I have never asked a girl out on a date, or even approached one at a bar and started a conversation. For that matter, pretty much all of the friends I have started the initial conversation with me upon meeting and not the other way around.
I too have failed least one class and barely made it through others due to presentation-related shit, and can't even make eye contact with strangers without feeling uncomfortable somehow. Frankly, I am amazed that I have such a good job and decent life despite the fact that I have to work up the guts to make a dentist's appointment over the freaking phone for christsakes.
Does this suck? More than a little. Is it a "disorder"? NO! It's just me.
Just proceed with caution. Try to get a good reccommendation for an actual psych professional from someone you know. There are a lot of horrible people out there practicing, so you want to make sure you get a good one who knows what they're doing and actually spends more time paying attention to and processing what you tell them, and who treats you with respect.
Avoid getting this kind of prescription from any general practitioner, they really shouldn't be the one helping you to decide what meds are best, that's not their arena. But some will try, and do more harm than good. Like mentioned above, these things can be very bad, particularly if not precribed, taken, and monitored with care.
Avoid getting this kind of prescription from any general practitioner, they really shouldn't be the one helping you to decide what meds are best, that's not their arena. But some will try, and do more harm than good. Like mentioned above, these things can be very bad, particularly if not precribed, taken, and monitored with care.
All people have problems, there isn't a handbook or users manual for life...
I'd always recommend a therapist before a shrink. One works with you and the latter tends to subscribe meds and watch you.
Many people that I respect "see" people, it's heathy.
Hire an accountant, a cleaning lady, a contractor, a nanny, an electrician...hire a therapist. It's A - OK.
Sometimes, vitamin/diet defiencies or lifestyle/exercise adjustments are all it takes for a true mental and physical improvement. Therapists can help in this regard.
Meds aren't healthy.
I guess that sometimes meds are needed but it shouldn't be our first and only choice.
FYI. Zyban makes you Very happy, Energetic and might help Quit smoking.
Peace.
I'd always recommend a therapist before a shrink. One works with you and the latter tends to subscribe meds and watch you.
Many people that I respect "see" people, it's heathy.
Hire an accountant, a cleaning lady, a contractor, a nanny, an electrician...hire a therapist. It's A - OK.
Sometimes, vitamin/diet defiencies or lifestyle/exercise adjustments are all it takes for a true mental and physical improvement. Therapists can help in this regard.
Meds aren't healthy.
I guess that sometimes meds are needed but it shouldn't be our first and only choice.
FYI. Zyban makes you Very happy, Energetic and might help Quit smoking.
Peace.
You'll find lots of pro's and con's on the web. However, it's often difficult to judge the quality of the source. I suggest you read 'Talking to Prozac' by Peter D. Kramer. It's a well-written and interesting introduction to the world of antidepressants.
jwm
jwm
Therapists
A second point: Many psychiatrists are skilled psychotherapists. The categories are not mutually exclusive.
Third point: For some, meds are most appropriate. For others, psychotherapy. For still others, both.
Best to start with your family GP. It may not have to go any further.
jwm
One has to be a little careful here. Anyone can claim to be a "therapist". No qualifications are needed. With social workers, psychologists, and doctors, there is at least some regulation.blitz said:
A second point: Many psychiatrists are skilled psychotherapists. The categories are not mutually exclusive.
Third point: For some, meds are most appropriate. For others, psychotherapy. For still others, both.
Best to start with your family GP. It may not have to go any further.
jwm
Hello jimjam!
Sorry for barging in, but I might have another point to mention, according to my own experience...
I have had the wonderful opportunity to meet with 2 gentlemen that were taking care of their mental health using anti-depression drugs. Great guys, wonderful people btw... They both mentioned that some drugs affect sexual performance, and that they had to adjust what they needed with their Doctor to make sure their sex life wouldn't be affected by this. When you see your Doctor, ask him/her about this, so you don't get any surprises later They both mentioned that with the help of their Doctor they found great solutions that were satisfying at every level
Hope this helps,
Sophia
Sorry for barging in, but I might have another point to mention, according to my own experience...
I have had the wonderful opportunity to meet with 2 gentlemen that were taking care of their mental health using anti-depression drugs. Great guys, wonderful people btw... They both mentioned that some drugs affect sexual performance, and that they had to adjust what they needed with their Doctor to make sure their sex life wouldn't be affected by this. When you see your Doctor, ask him/her about this, so you don't get any surprises later
They both mentioned that with the help of their Doctor they found great solutions that were satisfying at every level Hope this helps,
Sophia
Many people (including yours truly) have had great success with cognitive behavioral therapy in dealing with depression, anxiety, etc - in a relatively short period of time you can learn how to become aware of negative thinking, and then to challenge and eventually change old and destructive thinking patterns and habits. Also, learning how to relax can also help you deal with depression - there are a few courses in the city called Meditation for Health, which are partially funded by OHIP.
More info - in my usually wordy style
First, excellent posts from both blitz and jwmorrice. Read them both again.
I stronly suggest starting with a full physical. Make sure there is nothing physicall wrong that could be keeping you "down" - like anemia. Second, check your diet, make sure you are eating balanced and well proportioned amounts, from all the food groups, escpecially fresh fruits. Get plenty of sleep.
Once these are checked and you still don't feel better, ask for a consult. There are specific crietira for deciding whether you are actually suffering a clinical depression or anxiety disorder. Even if you are, there may be enough other things going on in your life that are keeping things overwhelming for you. Talk to a counsellor of some sort -- ask for recommendations from friends, associates, or other professionals you trust. See if there is an EAP programme at work.
A little reframing, new ways of interpretting situations or help deciphering what you can and cannot control in your life may just alleviate the sense of being dragged under. You might also give consideration to a group approach if you are dealing with issues that seem to bog many down - addictions, adult children, assault, weight, etc. Check community centres, the Y, religious organizations, or call a helpline for a referral (see the front pages of the phonebook)
Talk to your physician, perhaps a psychiatrist, and the counsellor/therapist/coach about adding meds as a conjunctive therapeutic approach (that means you use the meds together with counselling). Then discuss which ones might be appropriate. It will take a number of tries, likely, if you are truly suffering profound clinical depression, which, just based on your communications, is unlikely. However, if you have a long term history that includes these types of episodes, meds might be appropriate. Make sure you tell your prescribing physician exactly what you put into your body - don't hold back, not telling them may cause severe interaction effects that will leave with more than just a depression to worry about.
In addition, a differential diagnosis must be made between depression (uni-polar) and bi-polar. The inclusion of paranoid or psychotic symptoms might indicate a different problem. Try not to "hide" symptoms about which you are embarrassed, or you might end up on the wrong meds. The physicians are not there to judge, only to diagnose and help decide if meds are an appropriate part of a therapeutic plan. But remember, psychiatrists are physicians and they MUST "diagnose" you and then treat medically - that is the model from which they work. Other mental health disciplines will follow different models, approaches, and practices.
SSRIs will be the first line of meds chosen. There is really no way to predict which will be effective. None of them may be and you may have some strage side effects. You will definitely have dry mouth, changes in appetite, and possibly sleep patterns. These should disappear in about 2 weeks.
If they are not effective, they will likely then move to the newer line which works in the dopamine system - Wellbutrin (also known as zyban). It could take a long time to find the right combination of diet, exercise, meds, counselling, social system and other lifestyle efforts to effectively deal with the problem on a long term basis. Be patient and allow that "failure" will be part of the process.
You must do what is best for you in consultation with real qualified professionals. Its good to seek advice here, but you don't really know who any of us are.
There are pro and anti meds people. Some are rightly concerned about the overuse of meds as a quick fix to problems that are really not severe or meeting the criteria. However, if you are one of those who truly suffer genetically based chemical imbalances, no amount of therapy in the world will stop episodes from happening. And don't let people who don't really know stick in their opinions on what is the best course of action for you.
Most people misinterpret being down or blue or sad as depression. If you are really suffering a clinical depression, you will know that this doesn't even begin to describe the bottomless pit of hopelssness and despair, or the level of debilitation that is associated. Trust your own instincts here. Asking for input and doing some research is a good start to help you develop those instincts.
Good Luck
First, excellent posts from both blitz and jwmorrice. Read them both again.
I stronly suggest starting with a full physical. Make sure there is nothing physicall wrong that could be keeping you "down" - like anemia. Second, check your diet, make sure you are eating balanced and well proportioned amounts, from all the food groups, escpecially fresh fruits. Get plenty of sleep.
Once these are checked and you still don't feel better, ask for a consult. There are specific crietira for deciding whether you are actually suffering a clinical depression or anxiety disorder. Even if you are, there may be enough other things going on in your life that are keeping things overwhelming for you. Talk to a counsellor of some sort -- ask for recommendations from friends, associates, or other professionals you trust. See if there is an EAP programme at work.
A little reframing, new ways of interpretting situations or help deciphering what you can and cannot control in your life may just alleviate the sense of being dragged under. You might also give consideration to a group approach if you are dealing with issues that seem to bog many down - addictions, adult children, assault, weight, etc. Check community centres, the Y, religious organizations, or call a helpline for a referral (see the front pages of the phonebook)
Talk to your physician, perhaps a psychiatrist, and the counsellor/therapist/coach about adding meds as a conjunctive therapeutic approach (that means you use the meds together with counselling). Then discuss which ones might be appropriate. It will take a number of tries, likely, if you are truly suffering profound clinical depression, which, just based on your communications, is unlikely. However, if you have a long term history that includes these types of episodes, meds might be appropriate. Make sure you tell your prescribing physician exactly what you put into your body - don't hold back, not telling them may cause severe interaction effects that will leave with more than just a depression to worry about.
In addition, a differential diagnosis must be made between depression (uni-polar) and bi-polar. The inclusion of paranoid or psychotic symptoms might indicate a different problem. Try not to "hide" symptoms about which you are embarrassed, or you might end up on the wrong meds. The physicians are not there to judge, only to diagnose and help decide if meds are an appropriate part of a therapeutic plan. But remember, psychiatrists are physicians and they MUST "diagnose" you and then treat medically - that is the model from which they work. Other mental health disciplines will follow different models, approaches, and practices.
SSRIs will be the first line of meds chosen. There is really no way to predict which will be effective. None of them may be and you may have some strage side effects. You will definitely have dry mouth, changes in appetite, and possibly sleep patterns. These should disappear in about 2 weeks.
If they are not effective, they will likely then move to the newer line which works in the dopamine system - Wellbutrin (also known as zyban). It could take a long time to find the right combination of diet, exercise, meds, counselling, social system and other lifestyle efforts to effectively deal with the problem on a long term basis. Be patient and allow that "failure" will be part of the process.
You must do what is best for you in consultation with real qualified professionals. Its good to seek advice here, but you don't really know who any of us are.
There are pro and anti meds people. Some are rightly concerned about the overuse of meds as a quick fix to problems that are really not severe or meeting the criteria. However, if you are one of those who truly suffer genetically based chemical imbalances, no amount of therapy in the world will stop episodes from happening. And don't let people who don't really know stick in their opinions on what is the best course of action for you.
Most people misinterpret being down or blue or sad as depression. If you are really suffering a clinical depression, you will know that this doesn't even begin to describe the bottomless pit of hopelssness and despair, or the level of debilitation that is associated. Trust your own instincts here. Asking for input and doing some research is a good start to help you develop those instincts.
Good Luck
It is attitudes like those expressed in this thread that PERVENT people from going and seeking help with depression or other mental disorders. Yes therapy can work for some people, but for others it is an issue of brain chemistry that you can't just talk into not being there any more. Drugs help, they are quite honestly not for everyone, but not all mental disorders are caused by environment, there are genetic causes as well. I find that a lot of people can end up being "shamed" into not persuing the avenue of drugs because there is the theory that mental issues can be dealt with if you just work hard enough at them or because there is some sort of stigma attatched to needing help. I would like to just state a few things here. For exaple, would you tell a schitzophrenic or a manic depressive not to take medication?? No, because it is a proven fact that they can not function in day to day life without medication. So why, if a person has a chemistry imbalance would you ostricize them for taking a medication that will correct the imbalance?? There are a number of people in my life that are dealing with depression, or some other mental disorder, (myself included) and I would NEVER try to convince them that medication is the wrong way to go.
That said, I do recommend attempting therapy first, to see if it is a strictly environmental issue, but if that does not offer a solution, then there is no shame in taking medication. You don't tell a diabetic to buck up and not take insulin, so why tell someone who needs something to help brain chemistry balance to not take a med they NEED??
*sorry if that sounded a bit angry, but I have lost a friend because she was convinced my friends and family not to take medication and eventually killed herself*
Kisses
Emma
That said, I do recommend attempting therapy first, to see if it is a strictly environmental issue, but if that does not offer a solution, then there is no shame in taking medication. You don't tell a diabetic to buck up and not take insulin, so why tell someone who needs something to help brain chemistry balance to not take a med they NEED??
*sorry if that sounded a bit angry, but I have lost a friend because she was convinced my friends and family not to take medication and eventually killed herself*
Kisses
Emma
That's true. Speaking from personal experience, SSRI's are not to be triffled with lightly. Don't be afraid of them, but do consider them as an option of last resort. The first few weeks on them can be hell - as can trying to get off them. But I can say one thing - they do help.jimjam said:
Oh, and dudebox - it's probably for the best that you've decided to go for the non-drug route. After all, there's no cure as yet for Abrasive Jerk Syndrome.
An article in last week's Sun also mentions a possible suicide connection with children taking anti-depressant drugs. A large part of the problem is no-one told the patients that thoughts of suicide were a possible side effect or they could have stopped taking that particular type.
The FDA last week issued a public health advisory to be vigilant for signs of worsening depression or suicidal thoughts at the beginning of anti-depressant therapy or whenever the dose is changed.
Sometimes that which is meant to heal you can actually harm you.
The drugs of concern are: Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Lexapro, Luvox, Serzone, and Wellbutrin. Most are known to affect the brain chemical serotonin.
British authorities sounded the alarm last year, saying long suppressed research suggests certain anti-depresssants might sometimes incrrease the risk of suicidal behaviour in children and teens.
The FDA last week issued a public health advisory to be vigilant for signs of worsening depression or suicidal thoughts at the beginning of anti-depressant therapy or whenever the dose is changed.
Sometimes that which is meant to heal you can actually harm you.
The drugs of concern are: Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Lexapro, Luvox, Serzone, and Wellbutrin. Most are known to affect the brain chemical serotonin.
British authorities sounded the alarm last year, saying long suppressed research suggests certain anti-depresssants might sometimes incrrease the risk of suicidal behaviour in children and teens.
Look, I'm not trying to be a dick here and do realize that there are some cases where meds are indicated for the treatment of certain disorders. However, as other posters have stated medication should be a last resort, and even then in conjuction with appropriate therapy to get at the cause of the problems and train the mind to cope with them.
However, someone who means everything to me has gotten herself onto Paxil for generalized anxiety. Now, I do not deny that the problem exists, but this person got the prescription from a GP, and has made no real attempt to work on the underlying cause through therapy or other means. In fact, she rejects such ideas as exercise and diet changes and has even gone and had her dosage increased when the desired effects failed to materialize. I honestly worry about the long-term effects of these drugs.
All I am saying is that there seems to be a new "disorder" invented every week, and of course Eli Lily, Glaxo and the rest have a new wonder drug to treat it. There are corporations making tens of millions of dollars per day on the backs of people whose normal human insecurities and shortcomings have been labelled as "abnormal" and it is just plain wrong.
However, someone who means everything to me has gotten herself onto Paxil for generalized anxiety. Now, I do not deny that the problem exists, but this person got the prescription from a GP, and has made no real attempt to work on the underlying cause through therapy or other means. In fact, she rejects such ideas as exercise and diet changes and has even gone and had her dosage increased when the desired effects failed to materialize. I honestly worry about the long-term effects of these drugs.
All I am saying is that there seems to be a new "disorder" invented every week, and of course Eli Lily, Glaxo and the rest have a new wonder drug to treat it. There are corporations making tens of millions of dollars per day on the backs of people whose normal human insecurities and shortcomings have been labelled as "abnormal" and it is just plain wrong.
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Can you get Zyban w/o a prescription? I swirl into huge depressions which affect my life negatively and that aren't really dependent on circumstances necessarily. I'm not a believer in psycho-analysis or SSRI's and I'm only willing to try Zyban, so therefore I don't need or want the doctor involved in the decision making process.
Zyban is the same drug as Welbutrin, a well known anti-depressant that works very well for many, many people. It's NOT an SSRI, and it doesn't have sexual side effects either. The politics of the drug marketing biz are interesting, and sometime when I'm less depressed, I'll dig out a link to an article about how Welbutrin lost the chance to be what Prozac became.
