American/Canadian Idol?

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,806
475
83
The Keebler Factory
I'm just curious.

Is this not the biggest load of tripe imaginable? I mean, it's a bunch of kids (most of whom have limited talent) who want all the glory but don't want all the hard work. Why spend years "in the trenches" of the music biz when you can become an instant celebrity on Idol, you ask? How about b/c even if you win you have ZERO credibility. Ask anyone who has won in the past. Kelly Clarkson? Please. The afro-guy? Forgotten. The big teddy-bear black guy? Forgotten. And Canadian Idol is even worse. The winners on that show are so pathetic it's painful to see them do interviews. And Ben Mulruney? What a loser! I repeat, loser!

Somebody, anybody, PLEASE kill these shows off.
 

2cent

New member
Feb 21, 2004
417
0
0
Why are the judges so enthused about this year's finalists. I don't see any talent at all.
 

shinyam

Guest
Jun 17, 2004
367
0
0
Toronto
The winners were chosen from a field of tens of thousands, so obviously they have some talent.

However, the only Idol I like is Kelly Clarkson, she has a great voice.
 

Geoffrey

Banned
May 11, 2004
35
0
0
gypsy said:
I wonder if Fantasia Barrino is going to be a star?
her and the velvet teddybear are both washedup after 15 minutes of fame ... aikens and kelly clarkson get more exposure .i hate canadian idol ,have no idea who the contestants are .
 

eleven

Member
Aug 16, 2003
114
1
18
So, let me get this straight, Keebler... if you had any musical talent, which these people do have, you would rather take the "trenches" route. And why would that be...?!

Exposure is not only the most promising tool for any artist, it is also the most difficult tool to acquire. And presented with the opportunity to have it fall within your lap, are you really telling everyone that you would just let it pass you by? For what... Commercialism? Selling out to the Man? Please... And don't even try to tell me that they're not working their butt's off, like you would otherwise have them do in some makeshift studio in their garage.

It's true... the winner's, let alone anyone else on the show, may not become stars. But how many true stars are made the old fashioned way, anyways? There are so many "here today, gone tomorrow" psuedo stars. Even Lionel Ritchie said that the best thing for these contestants would be not to win. And having finished third last year, Billy Klippert, who has obvious talent, is having a great time with his cd, which he helped co-write, and more importantly, has nothing to do with the hooks of E19, who control EVERYTHING regarding the winners of these competitions. A better assessment of the previous winners might be after they've been released from their contractual duties.

But at least the show provides countless people with the opportunity to be seen and heard. They probably won't become stars, but they can at least find a foothold or better as a working musician. And at the end of the day... I'd venture a guess that they would be very happy about doing that for the rest of their lives.

And by the way... do you truly think that Kalen doesn't have extraordinary promise? Are you sure you're listening...? The rest of the audience is.
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,806
475
83
The Keebler Factory
Boy, my post sure went right over your head. So let me clarify:

The contestants on American/Canadian Idol are selling out any hope of a future career for a chance to win a fleeting, momentary chance to be famous - something that is increasingly indicative of today's generation ("I'd rather be famous for a minute than a legend forever, b/c I don't have the persistence and discipline to work my way to the top the hard way"). Have you ever seen the people auditioning? Losers. People who don't know how to get into the music biz and think Idol is the path to stardom. But it's not. Oh, and let's not forget those incredible Popstars! What was their name again? Velvet Crap or something like that. Another bunch of losers who didn't know the boat was sinking until it had already hit rock bottom.

Here's a little secret that I'll let you in on eleven: the real musical talents out there aren't auditioning for Idol. Huh?!? Wha?!? That's right eleven, the real musical talent (you know, the one's with enough talent to get a real agent) know that Idol is the kiss of death when it comes to a career in the music biz. Idol will make you famous; at least until the next season starts. But then that's it. I call it the Survivor Syndrome: people so desperate to put meaning into their lives, to be recognized for something they're not, that they'll do next to ANYTHING to get on TV. And the networks eat it up as it's instant ratings. Why? Because people love a train wreck, and the Survivor Syndrome delivers that in spades.

Winners of idol have no cred. Zip, zero, bupkiss. As the show ends, so too does their career. I don't even know the names of the latest Idol contestants b/c they're so irrelevant they're meaningless. The real talent laughs at Idol winners b/c they know the Idol winners didn't truly earn it.

And that's my point.
 

MojoRisin'

People Are Strange!!!!!
Jul 14, 2003
12,002
890
113
Paris
I think the people on the Idol shows arent really people that had planned on making it in the biz but thought, "well what the hell, i may as well give it a shot" Some come from bands, but most are dishwashers, choir singers, students...blah blah blah that get talked into auditioning by over zealous friends or family members. I dont like the shows that much but i sure dont blame the singers (who do have some talent) for going for their one and usally only shot at a contract. The judges do need to get excited over the talent or there would not be people jamming the phone lines to vote or watching the show. That being said...somebody please shoot Clay Aikens
 

eleven

Member
Aug 16, 2003
114
1
18
No... you misunderstand, Keebler. I got your point. My point is that I simply disagree with you. I never said that ALL of the talent out there is auditioning for Idol. But I also don't believe that ALL of the talent is doing it by the books, simply because they would lack credibility, otherwise.

Yes... there are tons of no talent singers out there who have tried out for the auditions. Yes... there are tons of people who have auditioned on a lark. Yes... there are many dishwashers, waiters, etc., who are trying to walk into the industry, given that they have no clue how to get in using the front door. And yes... I'll even give you the people who think that they can become a star without having to put in their dues (they never make it, by the way). But, there are still a small percentage of the people who are truly talented. Who come from musical backgrounds. And who have, and still do work their asses off to achieve something special.

As in the rest of the world, the percentage of people who can actually sing, perform, and still have that intangible which keeps you wanting more, is so very slight. And when appiled to the Idol concept, obviously the percentages become that much smaller. But... gems do appear. And if you really believe that the real talent have never tried out, then you're kidding yourself. The same goes for your theory of the true talent being those who are rep'ed by an agent. Are you kidding me?! Our Lady Peace is obviously rep'ed by an agent. They have multiple hits to their credit and I even love listening to some of their stuff... in studio sound. As a live band, they... are... a... horror... show. How far would Raine get in an Idol audition?

The bottom line on the "real" talent that you speak of, is all a matter of conjecture. The industry nowadays isn't as much about talent as it is about what is popular. And while the two can be synonomous... more than ever, it doesn't seem to be so. Which brings us back to the Idol shows...

You don't believe that the show serves as an outlet for real talent. You begrudge those individuals with talent for trying out, because it is either a sellout or an easy way for them to bypass the real work that goes into being a successful artist. And you believe that real, respectable artists would never audition because they would fear an instant lack of credibilty. I think that's about it... Obviously, I disagree with all of these points. And even though it may not sound nice, as an artist, although not a musician, I REALLY do understand where you're coming from with your pessimistic, narrow minded, yet singularly artistic point of view. So, it's all about agreeing to disagree... and that's fine.

Aside from the performers, your criticism of what the producers of the show try to deliver is pretty bang-on. But this is a completely different animal and not relevant to the question of talent v.s. no talent. Like Survivor, the producers obviously pick and choose what they want you to see during the auditions. You never get to see the possible talents who are nosed out because the show needs a few clowns to make the audience laugh. If you can get past this failed aspect of the format, then I still believe that it serves a higher purpose than the "scarlet letter" version of the show that you perceive it to be.
 

eleven

Member
Aug 16, 2003
114
1
18
You make some good points, Alexa. While much of your venom is saved for the production values of the shows themselves, all I can say once again, is wait until the winner's contracts expire. I believe they are on a 5-year deal. Remember, it has only been 3 years. It will take time for the hype to catch up to them, if it ever does.

And as far as superstardom goes... that's the show talking. As a viewer, and a believer of the system for the performer, I just look for them to one day be able to contribute to the industry. And whether you put the work in during the trials and tribulations of getting to "the show" or put it in while you're learning on the job, what's the difference?! As long as the work is applied, I'm not going to begrudge anyone the opportunity to succeed. Everyone has a fair and equal shot on the show... up to 26 years of age, anyways.

And if there are those who feel that this is an unfair opportunity for "real" talent, then don't you think that this is more about the issue of being petty? A lack of work and nice packaging will not win this competition, and the same will obviously not keep you there. And if one believes that hard work and good packaging can still not be good enough to make it through the regular channels, and then get to watch the product of Idol... then isn't this just about being bitter?
 

Tiger Williams

Lemming like devotion....
Feb 27, 2004
172
0
0
Keebler Elf said:
And Ben Mulruney? What a loser! I repeat, loser!
Ain't that the truth. A bigger dork I defy you to find.
A friend of mine works for Clear Channel and tells me that there is a video floating around of various clips of Ben doing his thing.........and actually thinking he's cool and cutting edge if you can believe it.
Hysterical!
If he was better known he'd be perfect for a parody on SNL.
 

Chivas Regal

A Fine Lickor !
Jul 5, 2002
946
56
28
Omnipresent
www.chivas.com
A couple of points to add- we call him BenGay at our house.

Second, a Canadian record deal no matter how much talent you have is a kiss of death. My ex is into BMG for over 350k and she hasn't a hope in hell of recouping the money. This is merely a franchise to make Simon Fuller incredibly wealthy. Artist are slaves to the record companies, period! Ask Prince how he feels about the whole thing. Better yet, ask sass, she is doing the show just for the $$. Her last CD didn't sell sqat, before Idol came along.

In any event, I think that these kids work their asses of each week behind the scenes. What with all of the guest appearances, getting ready for the next show. I am willing to bet they are putting in 16-18 hour days. Thank god for adrenaline.

Chivas Regal
 

shinyam

Guest
Jun 17, 2004
367
0
0
Toronto
I think the Idol shows provide the opportunity for people from all walks of life to showcase their talent. Many people with talent do not know how to go about getting a recording contract. The show provides a straightforward way for individuals to enter a competition where the ultimate winner is the strongest and most popular singer among the entrants.

Of course, there are upsets and unfair eliminations, but ultimately, there is a reason behind it. Tamyra Gray, a top-notch singer, was eliminated because she didn't have the likeablity factor, she seemed rather off-standish. Kelly Clarkson, however, seemed more down-to-earth, and had that next-door-girl kind of charm.

Sure, many of the contestants are looking for a quick way to become facmous, but others are working their asses off. The truth of the matter is that hard work will only help you so much when it comes to becoming a singing sensation. As Randy Jackson said "You're either born with it or not." It's obvious that some singers, no matter how much they work, will never amount to anything. They have neither the voice, charisma, nor looks to become a star. Others are naturals, and the Idol shows are an excellent way of revealing these stars.

As for their fleeting fame of the finalists, that can be said of any singer or band. Where is Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, the Spice Girls, or even Jewel today? How many singers have simply vanished from the spotlight overnight? The few singers who have endured the test of time are the tiny minority who have craftfully managed their career (Is it no surprise that Madonna's IQ is 140 or so?)

Ultimately, the show is about providing entertainment and making money for those involved in the production of the show: the sponsors, FOX, the winner, the producers, etc. And it does both of those things pretty well.
 

train

New member
Jul 29, 2002
6,989
0
0
Above 7
Chivas Regal said:
A couple of points to add- we call him BenGay at our house.

Second, a Canadian record deal no matter how much talent you have is a kiss of death.
I have no idea about the Canadian record industry other than Canada does seem to have a disproportionate number of north america's female recording artists . Surely some , if not all , started with local record deals didn't they ?

As far as the show....geez if you don't like it don't watch . Can't say that I watch it all that often but I did see the American idol show where Fantasia(?) sang Summertime . I thought that performance was pretty freakin good actually .
 

Chivas Regal

A Fine Lickor !
Jul 5, 2002
946
56
28
Omnipresent
www.chivas.com
train said:
I have no idea about the Canadian record industry other than Canada does seem to have a disproportionate number of north america's female recording artists . Surely some , if not all , started with local record deals didn't they ?

As far as the show....geez if you don't like it don't watch . Can't say that I watch it all that often but I did see the American idol show where Fantasia(?) sang Summertime . I thought that performance was pretty freakin good actually .
They become big when they sign in the US, as does any major Canadian talent. And, my jab at Bengay was just that- a jab. I too watch the show and get caught up in the whole BS voting sytem.

BTW, it will be Kalan and Jacob in the final and Kalan will win.

Chivas Regal
 

Berlin

New member
Jan 31, 2003
11,405
5
0
train said:
but I did see the American idol show where Fantasia(?) sang Summertime .

I thought that performance was pretty freakin good actually .
I agree , that was a heck of a performance.

If they ever release that particular recording on CD, I'd actually buy it. Best of luck to that talented gal.
 
Toronto Escorts