amateur electrical

[destillat]

so ya, i'm a bit of an amateur electrician... i know what i can do and i know what i can't do...

i've got a cottage that has regular power failures that can last from minutes to days...
i want to get a generator to support basic functionality...

i know that the 'right' way is to get a transfer switch installed, etc, etc...
but, since it is just a cottage, i don't want to invest too much into it...

my understanding is this:
-city power goes down
-i open main breaker to disconnect house from grid
-power up generator
-plug generator in to 120v house plug (this will light up one side of the electrical panel)
-or, plug generator in to 240v house plug (which will light up the whole electrical panel)

obviously, load and capacity is an issue, but right now i am just trying to confirm that my logic is correct or incorrect...
any electricians out there that can comment?

 

[finamart]

Being an Electrician...Do yourself a favour, and hire one...

 

[good to go]

Yes that will work.

 

[destillat]

Being an Electrician...Do yourself a favour, and hire one...

and i will if i have to!... i'm not an idiot, i know when i am out of my league...
but... from what i have researched, my plan will work

 

[good to go]

and i will if i have to!... i'm not an idiot, i know when i am out of my league...
but... from what i have researched, my plan will work

I am also an electrician, but if you screw up and make a mistake your insurance will not pay and you will be charged by the hydro company.

 

[fmahovalich]

Yes you are correct.

MAKE SURE YOU THROW THE MAIN BREAKER OFF.....

AND IF YOU WANNA LIVEN UP, say the plugs in your sitting room, also throw the single breaker for that.

Testt his out before you set it up.... Steal an outlet from a neighbors cottage ...run an extension cord to your house and test by evening up a circuit.

 

[Cruzer22]

so ya, i'm a bit of an amateur electrician... i know what i can do and i know what i can't do...

i've got a cottage that has regular power failures that can last from minutes to days...
i want to get a generator to support basic functionality...

i know that the 'right' way is to get a transfer switch installed, etc, etc...
but, since it is just a cottage, i don't want to invest too much into it...

my understanding is this:
-city power goes down
-i open main breaker to disconnect house from grid
-power up generator
-plug generator in to 120v house plug (this will light up one side of the electrical panel)
-or, plug generator in to 240v house plug (which will light up the whole electrical panel)

obviously, load and capacity is an issue, but right now i am just trying to confirm that my logic is correct or incorrect...
any electricians out there that can comment?

I think the problem with this is that you will be limited to a 15A breaker and whatever gauge of wire you connect to. This would limit your power input into your system. If you want to power your whole house I would get an electrician. If you just want one plug available when the power is out, make a heavy duty extension cord from the generator to the house.

 

[fmahovalich]

I think the problem with this is that you will be limited to a 15A breaker and whatever gauge of wire you connect to. This would limit your power input into your system. If you want to power your whole house I would get an electrician. If you just want one plug available when the power is out, make a heavy duty extension cord from the generator to the house.

No need to power you whole house. I would suspect you looking for an emergency electrical set up for more imperative hydro needs. Ie fridge, a couple lamps, maybe the furnace fan.

if you needed full circuit potential, you might be better running a separate very limited hydro circuit from a small secondary breaker box. That way. You only liven up that box, totally separate from your main box

 

[Flameguard]

electrician as well, unless the hydro was going to be out for days or weeks, best to just run 2 or 3 extension cords from the generator to what you really need running.

if you wanted to do it right you would need at least a length of # 8 conductor 4 wire or minimum # 10 4 wire and do as you said, shut off the main but ( if possible with your panel ) hook the open end of the wires to the load side of your switch,,,,,red and blk, for power, white for neutral and green for ground. after that is done fire up gen, plug in cord, reverse order when hydro comes on. now you can turn on what you really need to run, understanding you have roughly 30 amps of power to play with. but the first thing you need to do is make sure your generator has a 230volt connection, some don't.

 

[widescreen]

I am no electrician but I thought of doing the same thing as you but did not have the courage.

What I ended up doing was this;

I had decided to replace all the Drywall in my Lounge and when I did, I installed a second circuit of outlets, fed from a breaker outside. I ran a couple of lights to the same panel.

Now, if the Hydro goes out, which it does, all I do is fire up the Generator, throw the switch on the Outside Breaker Panel, 2 lights come on instantly and I move TV, SAT etc from one outlet to another.

Not the prettiest way but it works and I am not playing with a live Hydro system.

 

[larry]

this sounds like something a handyman could do. but the insurance company would think otherwise. i'm sure there's no way you would pull a permit to do this so it's "undercover". mr. mahovolich's advice seems sound. just run some extension cords.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Not an electrician, but I know more than most people about electronics and electrical.

I also have a cottage that has periodic power failure. Rather than hook it up to the house electrical system, I have the emergency power on a separate system that I can turn on manually if there is a power failure. I also have a battery backup for emergency lights. If there is a power failure the generator is only used about an hour during meal times or can be turned on as needed. I have emergency only electrical plugs in the wall with
12 v plugs for lights that gets power from a 3 battery back-up systems. Why run your generator continuously?

 

[destillat]

Keep in mind that if your generator has more than 15A/120V available and you plug it into a regular receptacle, there is a very high risk of fire. All of the wiring, extension cords, etc., need to be rated for the capacity of the circuit on the genny. I wouldn't use anything less than a 12 awg extension cord for a 15A circuit in this case but I just prefer to oversize things a bit. a long cord, coiled up can result in voltage drop if the circuit is loaded up to maximum.
Backfeeding your system as described will work fine but can be dangerous, resulting in an explosion and/or fire should both power sources meet by neglecting to turn the main breaker off. A generator breaker panel uses a locking mechanism or bar to allow power in one direction only from either source and costs a couple of hundred bucks. It is pretty easy to install but I highly recommend using an electrician to do it. Best of luck!

Hmm... good point... if I use 240v, that will go across all my wires, even the 120v circuits.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

As I said, keep everything on a separate circuit only for emergencies. Easy to wire up with regular house wires and turned on only when needed. With the battery backup, you will also need less capacity. A 5000/6000 watt generator will do the job if not run continuously.

 

[destillat]

As I said, keep everything on a separate circuit only for emergencies. Easy to wire up with regular house wires and turned on only when needed. With the battery backup, you will also need less capacity. A 5000/6000 watt generator will do the job if not run continuously.

Once the walls are finished, not so easy.

 

[buttercup]

. . . . a bit of an amateur electrician.

Probably one of the more accurate epitaphs in the cemetery.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Once the walls are finished, not so easy.

If you have a basement it makes thing easier to run wires, if not you have to make a few holes. Ir try to keep things central so that wires go from the center of the house to the perimeter.

 

[destillat]

For SAFETY, you need a transfer switch / interlock device. Without that, there is a good possibility someone could turn the main breaker back on without disconnecting the generator. If you do not install one of these devices, you are an idiot as you could be putting your neighbours' electrical service at risk as well.

The simplest and most economical solution is to change the panel to a generator panel (to power whole cottage) or install one as a subpanel (to backup a couple of circuits). See below - these have the transfer switch / interlock built in.

http://www.siemens.ca/web/portal/en/ProductsServices/Documents/EQG-2-Pole_EN.pdf

Hire an electrician to install it... so that the panel and work is covered by warranty.. and in the event of fire, they will look at the panel & wiring. If there was something done wrong, your insurance may not cover you.

Also.. how will you know when the power comes back on??

What size is your generator??... If you are cheaping out on the safety aspect, chances are your generator is nowhere near big enough to power half, or all of your panel...

How will you be connecting the generator to the service?


As for considering yourself an "amateur electrician"... you are far from that.. you are what they call a "weekend warrior"... Electricians love getting paid to fix what guys like you have done.

Sooooo many things wrong with this post...

-Someone could turn the main breaker back on without disconnecting the generator? I don't invite idiots to my cottage. Maybe the people you hang out with walk around your house and randomly flip switches, but I don't associate with the likes of those.
-How will I know when the power comes back on? Ummm... when I see the lights in the many cottages around my cottage come back on.
-My generator is sufficiently sized for what I need. I never said I need it to power the whole house.
-If you read my post, you would KNOW how I proposed to connect the generator to the service.
-Lastly, and most hilariously... I am far from what you describe as a 'weekend warrior'... WTF is that even? I know what I know and I know what I don't know... no electrician has ever been needed to fix a mess of mine... I'm smarter than that... You, on the other hand, not so sure.

 

[destillat]

Probably one of the more accurate epitaphs in the cemetery.

yet i still live...
general electrical work is quite doable by most with a basic level of general competency... electrical work is predictable and safe, if you know what you are doing.

 

[fun-guy]

Sooooo many things wrong with this post...

-Someone could turn the main breaker back on without disconnecting the generator? I don't invite idiots to my cottage. Maybe the people you hang out with walk around your house and randomly flip switches, but I don't associate with the likes of those.
-How will I know when the power comes back on? Ummm... when I see the lights in the many cottages around my cottage come back on.
-My generator is sufficiently sized for what I need. I never said I need it to power the whole house.
-If you read my post, you would KNOW how I proposed to connect the generator to the service.
-Lastly, and most hilariously... I am far from what you describe as a 'weekend warrior'... WTF is that even? I know what I know and I know what I don't know... no electrician has ever been needed to fix a mess of mine... I'm smarter than that... You, on the other hand, not so sure.

I understand what you're saying but that doesn't mean you still shouldn't disregard code. Doesn't matter whether you invite idiots or not, point is you need to install according to code and if that means install a transfer switch or interlock or sub-panel, that's what you have to do, no option here. I'm also not an electrician have wiring a complete home and had it reviewed by an electrician. Doesn't hurt to run what you're trying to do by an electrician, I have many times, and still do although I do it myself.

See this video, it's quite simple but it helped me a lot about generators. Although it's American, the concept is the same and review what you plan to do with an electrician. I got a lot of help from retired electrician working at Home Depot or any of the other stores, or even manufacturers, they're quite helpful. At the end I would get an electrician to review your work have it tagged just in case, even get a city inspector to approve your work, never know when it comes to insurance claims, you need to be covered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-RPJ3qOKPs