All black school???

[islandman4567]

this seemed like the right thread to ask, seeing as its related to race issues.

My nephew's having a debate in his class about whether or not black history month is counterproductive to multi-culturalism.

he's concerned about his arguments because he doesn't want to come off sounding racist. kinda hard , since he's supposed to be debating against it.

so, how do you make an argument without being branded as such?

the only thing I could think of was that it singles out one particular segment of the population without concern for achievements of the rest of the ethnicities.

why isn't there a history month for all other races,

and, i'm trying to choose my words carefully , as I know some will surely take issue with what is said no matter how its said.

 

[shakenbake]

Thats some mighty powerful "medication" you're taking.

I believe that Insidious Von is NOT on meds. However, I feel that he is very wrong with his assumption that blacks are only good to learn trades. It is NOT the lack of trade school training that keeps these kids from staying in school and avoiding trouble. Insidious Von, where the hell do you get this misconception?

We as human beings, all races, are to be encouraged to rise to our own personal levels of accomplishment that are NOT defined by race or ethnic heritage. It would be the same as saying that Italians are only good for cosntruction work, or Greeks are only good for restaurant management, and so on. That is simply NOT the way the world is.

The problems that may keep the black students from achieveing their full potentials require a lot more than an effectively segregated school. It is a similar hair-brained, idea to that one that was hatched by left-wing morons for special, segregated math and science classes for girls. And I, in fact, have worked with a good many extremely talented women scientists and engineers who graduated from a mixed learing environment, many with Ph.D. level education and traning. I have also learned form blacks with Ph.D. degrees and worked with them, as well.

When the students complete their studies, they have to work in the real world, with men, women, blacks, whites, Italians, Poles, Hindi, Muslims, etc. So, what is the use of these special schools if they don't prepare the students for the real world? They would be doingf a tremendous injustice to the students by not giving them the benefit of learning in a culturally rich and diverse environment. Find the real cause for the drop-outs and solve that problem, thank you.

 

[Insidious Von]

I think you are pigeonholing my opinion shakenbake.

I was responding to the 40% drop out rate among blacks as justification for an Afrocentric school. In my line of work, I wouldn't survive if I was bigoted against blacks.

I was making the statement that, due to funding cuts, options for student that cannot cope with a public school curriculum are limited. It has nothing to do with colour - even though my post made it appear so.

Lancs, I'm on Crestor...but I quit drinking.

 

[shakenbake]

I think you are pigeonholing my opinion shakenbake.

I was responding to the 40% drop out rate among blacks as justification for an Afrocentric school. In my line of work, I wouldn't survive if I was bigoted against blacks.

I was making the statement that, due to funding cuts, options for student that cannot cope with a public school curriculum are limited. It has nothing to do with colour - even though my post made it appear so.

Lancs, I'm on Crestor...but I quit drinking.

O.K., sorry if I seemed to slam you, then. I misunderstood you.

On another note, I hope that you may agree, school systems have been contributing to the dropout rate by discouraging some students, worngfully so, to try to do their best and to challenge themselves more than they are right now. I know personally of two cases where the high school students were told that they would never amount to anything. Both of these kids went on to Ph.D.s and made great successes of themselves, despite the moronic guidance counsellors' words and admonitions. They were both whites, BTW. So, this issue that I mention now is not racially limited.

Maybe, Afrocentric schools might help, and maybe not. I somehow doubt it. Anotehr point taht I want to make is, I believe that there is a grave shortcoming with the present school system, a lack of morale within the teaching ranks and a genuine lack of role models for ALL students, despite what McSquinty says about it being rosy in schools. These role models must show how people of all races and walks of life are important to society. What am I trying to say, here? It is a problem with the amount of self-worth and mutual respect that students have for one another. I have seen this in the present secondary school system in some schools, and it goes far beyond it being a racial issue.

At the post-secondary level, where I have direct experience, as far as I can perceive, the problem does not exist. I wonder, if this is the case, why it is better at the post secondary level.

 

[Keebler Elf]

... school systems have been contributing to the dropout rate by discouraging some students...

Black culture has been doing far more to contribute to the dropout rate than anything the school system has done.

 

[C Dick]

A big part of the problem is that the public education system is so stupid, almost everyone hates it, not just black people. If they were teaching people what they wanted to learn about, and if you could learn with people of your choosing, in the manner of your choosing, you would be less likely to drop out.

 

[shakenbake]

Black culture has been doing far more to contribute to the dropout rate than anything the school system has done.

If that is true, which I do not believe is the major reason, it doesn't help matters when the very school system that is supposed to help educate them is failing to live up to its obligations. Ask yourself why, if the black culture is really the major contributor to such self-destructive atitude, why this is so.

 

[shakenbake]

A big part of the problem is that the public education system is so stupid, almost everyone hates it, not just black people. If they were teaching people what they wanted to learn about, and if you could learn with people of your choosing, in the manner of your choosing, you would be less likely to drop out.

Just what you said, too! And, maybe, that is also a sign of the lack of self-respect and mutual respect that I alluded to. But, we all have to work and live with people we do not necessarily love, don't we? We all have to get along enough to get teh job doen, don't we?

 

[frankcastle]

If that is true, which I do not believe is the major reason, it doesn't help matters when the very school system thatis supposed to help educate them is failing to live up to its obligations. Ask yourself why, if the black culture is really the major contributor to such self-destructive atitude, why this is so.

While I wouldn't call it black culture (because it's not exclusive to them) a high prevalence of

1)single parent/unstable families
2)minimal parental involvement in the child's education
3)lower socio economic background
4)"unengaged" students seeking each other out

is a recipe for disaster

 

[shakenbake]

While I wouldn't call it black culture (because it's not exclusive to them) a high prevalence of

1)single parent/unstable families
2)minimal parental involvement in the child's education
3)lower socio economic background
4)"unengaged" students seeking each other out

is a recipe for disaster

frankcastle;

I believe that you have zeroed in on the symptoms, if you will, and rightly stated that it is not restricted to black culture. So, do you believe that it is not really a racial matter, as I do not believe it to be?

 

[frankcastle]

frankcastle;

I believe that you have zeroed in on the symptoms, if you will, and rightly stated that it is not restricted to black culture. So, do you believe that it is not really a racial matter, as I do not believe it to be?

Most definitely I agree that it is not a racial thing. I predict that the project will be a short term success because the teachers will be under pressure to make it look like things are working but in the long run I don't expect there to be a true improvement on the state of affairs in black communities (unless other changes in and out of school are made).

 

[blackdog]

I think they should be able to paint schools any colour they want. As long as they dont paint the windows. Kids need light.

 

[LancsLad]

I think they should be able to paint schools any colour they want. As long as they dont paint the windows. Kids need light.

New Zealand is way ahead of us, they have segregated sports teams, ever heard of the " All Blacks".

 

[xarir]

I emailed my school trustee to ask what exactly is an Afrocentric curriculum. His reply:

There are parts of an AFricentric curriculum already been practiced in some TDSB secondary schools. This will be extended and will be added to depending upon the grade levels the school will address. But the curriculum must comply with eh principles of the existing Ontario government curriculum. But the content may differ.

So I emailed back thanks for the reply but that's actually my question - what content will differ.

His lack of spelling / typing skills and improper use of grammar do nothing to shore up my now crumbling expectations of excellence from a school trustee. But ... that's something I'll need to save for later. For the time being I pursue the quest for finding out exactly what the fuck they intend to teach (and how) at this new school.

 

[xarir]

I should add that I asked my friend who happens to be a school teacher (grade 3) what exactly an Afrocentric curriculum is. Her reply was that it would likely be a refocus of history - "black" history in lieu of First Nations perhaps. And also something along the lines of content sensitivity. So instead of learning what Billy and Jane did, kids would learn what Shaquille and Chenelle did or something like that.

While I can see certain value in teaching that way, I still don't see why a separate school would need to be setup. Surely the examples in the lessons can be broadened more naturally to include other races / ethnicities in a manner that mirrors the now commonplace usage "he / she" as opposed to "he"-only.

Or maybe I'm just being too narrow-minded?

 

[Herodotus]

If as much energy was spent on mentoring, encouraging and supplementing the knowledge base of African and Caribbean students as was spent on a half-cocked idea like this, I guarantee the dropout rate would be cut in half in less than a year. But wtf do I know?

As far as I can remember, cultural education took place on one's own time at little-to-no expense. I could go to Italian, Chinese, Ukrainian, etc., school on my own time to supplement my education and learn about things more relevant to my own (or other) cultures. The same held true for religious education - you know, like Sunday school... but that topic of discussion was beaten to death in the last provincial election, so I'll move on.

Why are we asking to set up a system that removes kids from a situation that they will eventually and inevitably have to face one day? I mean, there are no "all black" universities in Canada. There are few, if any, African/Caribbean-only workplaces. So why start with schools when learning to deal with others is a key part of the formative years?

Should we re-vamp the school curriculum? Absolutely. Should primary, secondary and post-secondary education be made more relevant for all kids in the 21st century? Definitely. But there is no way in hell that we should set up a system that segregates children and gives a false sense of security and entitlement. But like I said, what do I know?