Air Canada "Refunds"

[Dave in Phoenix]

Many VISA cards include cancellation insurance, so it should be straightforward to get a refund. Amex does not include cancellation insurance as a default.

Looking at some travel site discussions and reading the trip insurance for some VISA that have it- it seems YOU have to be ill. There is nothing that deals with the current situation if even is canceled or airline cancels. If you are given a voucher but it expires it may cover cost but again only if YOU are sick. And I read you have to generally make a claim within 20 days.

One site for example says: Unfortunately, when it comes to COVID-19, unless you actually come down with the virus or your doctor specifically instructs you not to travel, credit card travel interruption or cancellation insurance probably won’t cover any lost, nonrefundable costs.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Looking at some travel site discussions and reading the trip insurance for some VISA that have it- it seems YOU have to be ill. There is nothing that deals with the current situation if even is canceled or airline cancels. If you are given a voucher but it expires it may cover cost but again only if YOU are sick. And I read you have to generally make a claim within 20 days.

One site for example says: Unfortunately, when it comes to COVID-19, unless you actually come down with the virus or your doctor specifically instructs you not to travel, credit card travel interruption or cancellation insurance probably won’t cover any lost, nonrefundable costs.

Thanks Dave, appreciate the insight. While I am still a little optimistic blueray's guidance will work out (I am willing to try for $11K worth of vouchers we are receiving as a family, still waiting on the details via email) our current plan is to do our best to assess when we are getting close enough to feeling comfortable to travel and book 3-6 months ahead like we have before - noting it may be 2022 or 2023 before that time comes as we have an elderly family member included in this trip.

 

[boomer10]

I received a cash refund from American but it took 3 unpleasant phone calls, a complaint to customer relations at the corporate office and 3 weeks longer than they claimed it would take. Now travelocity is trying to push a voucher on me for a hotel that wasn't open during the dates of my visit (in violation of German consumer protection laws). At this time I'm planning on disputing the charge with AmEx. The hotel appears to be willing to do a refund but is requiring me to go though travelocity since it made the actual purchase.

 

[blueray]

If you are looking for help, guidance and advice on your situation, go the the air passengers rights Canada Facebook page and ask on there. The people who run the page are experts in this area, including Gabor Lukacs who is a lawyer and most well known and effective airline passenger consumer advocate in Canada. Gabor and his site helped me recoup $1400 in lost luggage claims the airline originally refused to pay. They are currently helping and advising hundreds of people navigating the refund process.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/AirPassengerRights/?ref=group_header&view=group

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Thanks Dave, appreciate the insight. While I am still a little optimistic blueray's guidance will work out (I am willing to try for $11K worth of vouchers we are receiving as a family, still waiting on the details via email) our current plan is to do our best to assess when we are getting close enough to feeling comfortable to travel and book 3-6 months ahead like we have before - noting it maybe 2022 or 2023 before that time comes as we have an elderly family member included in this trip.

You raise a good point - I usually book 3+ months in advance. I think the voucher expire means you have to book by the expire date so you could book a trip far ahead, hopefully when the virus is less risky. However, last week Air Canada announced as of June 1st and retroactively from March 1st - if I understand it right - the prior two-year credit can be converted to forever no ending date and be transferrable.

The problem is if, like me, you had discounted fares on sale, the new eventual trip may cost much more than the voucher value. I only used AC again because their discount was almost as low as American but liked their non-stop.

Airlines prefer not to pay out more cash than possible to keep their cash reserves or lines of credit available as they are losing money for probably at least the rest of 2020. So they prefer to use credits or vouchers unless forced to refund cash. Obviously folks like you may prefer the cash with a large fare - like for the whole family. On the aircanda social sites, some folks seem desperate for the fund as life conditions have changed, some may be out of work now, etc.

Forutuntely for me, its not that big of a deal since fare was only about $350 RT with the sale.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

You raise a good point - I usually book 3+ months in advance. I think the voucher expire means you have to book by the expire date so you could book a trip far ahead, hopefully when the virus is less risky. However, last week Air Canada announced as of June 1st and retroactively from March 1st - if I understand it right - the prior two-year credit can be converted to forever no ending date and be transferrable.

The problem is if, like me, you had discounted fares on sale, the new eventual trip may cost much more than the voucher value. I only used AC again because their discount was almost as low as American but liked their non-stop.

Airlines prefer not to pay out more cash than possible to keep their cash reserves or lines of credit available as they are losing money for probably at least the rest of 2020. So they prefer to use credits or vouchers unless forced to refund cash. Obviously folks like you may prefer the cash with a large fare - like for the whole family. On the aircanda social sites, some folks seem desperate for the fund as life conditions have changed, some may be out of work now, etc.

Forutuntely for me, its not that big of a deal since fare was only about $350 RT with the sale.

Thankfully while the $11K value is a good chunk of change it was $6,500 roughly in avion points - used a credit card for my business purchases and saved up the points for just over 2 years, leaving $4,500 out of pocket which knowing we at least have the vouchers makes it reasonable to deal with.

You are correct, from what I have read our tickets will roll over into no-expiry vouchers (we were supposed to fly out this week, what a change of life the last few months have been) which gives us more flexibility thankfully.

For us flying from Canada (3 different cities) to Europe does limit us in airline selections, at least when we booked in January, to Air Canada as the best option/value for direct flights, upgraded seats, etc. I suspect it will be much the same when we book again in future.


I also fear as you have eluded to - pricing is going up - so the same tickets that would have cost $11K for all of us to go this year could be much higher in 2022/2023 when we do go. Ultimately we will be going as this trip has been talked about for almost 10 years now and if it costs me an additional $5K on top of the vouchers to go, I will make it happen.

Thankfully I never married and never had children which helps I have learned.

I will come back to this thread and update when I have attempted to get the cash out of Air Canada, confirm when our vouchers have flipped to no-expiry (or not) and what ultimately I end up with by mid-summer.

Cheers everyone.

 

[Dave in Phoenix]

Thankfully I never married and never had children which helps I have learned.
.

Even without a wife and kids sounds like you have a great family and you are generous. I am old guy only child with relatives all dead other than a few long lost cousins and no children - that I know of

Even with frequent flier miles it seems fees in Europe or high. I went to Frankfurt last year fare paid by frequent flier miles but still had about $500 in fees for just me RT from Phoenix. I don't think AC code shares with many European airlines although they fly their from all over Canada and proposing to buy Transit Air which will may be an issue with the EU since they have competing flights especially Canada to Europe. My FF miles are with American but to Germany code shared with British Airways that I liked a bit better on a 747, I am frugal so always go coach... really bad to Europe since I am 6-1 and use to thnk 4 hours to Toronto was a long trip!

You, staring from Canada are a lot closer to Europe than me from Phoenx.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Even without a wife and kids sounds like you have a great family and you are generous. I am old guy only child with relatives all dead other than a few long lost cousins and no children - that I know of

Even with frequent flier miles it seems fees in Europe or high. I went to Frankfurt last year fare paid by frequent flier miles but still had about $500 in fees for just me RT from Phoenix. I don't think AC code shares with many European airlines although they fly their from all over Canada and proposing to buy Transit Air which will may be an issue with the EU since they have competing flights especially Canada to Europe. My FF miles are with American but to Germany code shared with British Airways that I liked a bit better on a 747, I am frugal so always go coach... really bad to Europe since I am 6-1 and use to thnk 4 hours to Toronto was a long trip!

You, staring from Canada are a lot closer to Europe than me from Phoenx.

Always appreciated your posts Dave, look forward to when you can travel again and hobby once again, sharing with us your reviews and experiences.

Didn't realize (but makes sense now I think of it) that with a round globe we all call home, Canada, especially eastern Canada, is considerably closer to Europe than you are in Phoenix. Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

The trip we had planned this year was a combination of celebrating a 65th birthday (not mine, lol) by visiting the towns in various countries our family came from. 15 day road trip around Europe - all mapped out, hotels books and flights locked in. I was fortunate to push over $300K of product purchases as a vendor to my clients through a points generating Visa which gave us 330,000 Avion points to offset more than half the airline costs and hence the $11K vouchers I have spoken of in this thread. As you can see this trip has been years in the making.

And now - it's on hold. I share a little more insight into what the trip's intention were to help understand when I say the sadness of when we knew we had to cancel everything was pretty intense...but has been dealt with and we now look forward to 2022/2023. As for the birthday lady, she's 65-until-we-go-to-Europe and no one is arguing it, lol.

Anyways, back to flight discussions - I did want to ask, anyone see themselves flying, well anywhere, in 2020? short flight, domestic or other? Work or Play or Both?

I'll answer my own question to share - normally I fly 4-6 times a year for work and play (often mixed). At this point I do not see any need being high enough and conditions being comfortable enough for me to fly again in 2020.

Cheers
G.D.G.

 

[Darts]

Question: Are those vouchers transferable? Maybe you can sell them on Kijiji. Of course, they would be worthless if Air Canada goes bust unless another airline is willing to honor them.

P.S. Just heard Air Canada is try to raise $1 billion in shares and debt.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Question: Are those vouchers transferable? Maybe you can sell them on Kijiji. Of course, they would be worthless if Air Canada goes bust unless another airline is willing to honor them.

P.S. Just heard Air Canada is try to raise $1 billion in shares and debt.

Non transferable.

 

[danmand]

Always appreciated your posts Dave, look forward to when you can travel again and hobby once again, sharing with us your reviews and experiences.

Didn't realize (but makes sense now I think of it) that with a round globe we all call home, Canada, especially eastern Canada, is considerably closer to Europe than you are in Phoenix. Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

The trip we had planned this year was a combination of celebrating a 65th birthday (not mine, lol) by visiting the towns in various countries our family came from. 15 day road trip around Europe - all mapped out, hotels books and flights locked in. I was fortunate to push over $300K of product purchases as a vendor to my clients through a points generating Visa which gave us 330,000 Avion points to offset more than half the airline costs and hence the $11K vouchers I have spoken of in this thread. As you can see this trip has been years in the making.

And now - it's on hold. I share a little more insight into what the trip's intention were to help understand when I say the sadness of when we knew we had to cancel everything was pretty intense...but has been dealt with and we now look forward to 2022/2023. As for the birthday lady, she's 65-until-we-go-to-Europe and no one is arguing it, lol.

Anyways, back to flight discussions - I did want to ask, anyone see themselves flying, well anywhere, in 2020? short flight, domestic or other? Work or Play or Both?

I'll answer my own question to share - normally I fly 4-6 times a year for work and play (often mixed). At this point I do not see any need being high enough and conditions being comfortable enough for me to fly again in 2020.

Cheers
G.D.G.

I usually take 7 leisure trips a year, a couple adventure trips, a couple short trips to the beach and a couple to Europe. All during the winter months.

I do not plan to travel again before next fall.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

I usually take 7 leisure trips a year, a couple adventure trips, a couple short trips to the beach and a couple to Europe. All during the winter months.

I do not plan to travel again before next fall.

I'm on the same page as you. I realize I'm optimistic that August/September 2021 will work out for our big family trip to Europe, hence I have made sure the family knows we may be waiting until summer 2022 or beyond.

danmand - when travel is finally safe again, do you think you will enjoy more trips per year, to make up for lost time/opportunity caused by the pandemic?

 

[Darts]

I redeemed my Aeroplan points for gift cards.

 

[danmand]

I'm on the same page as you. I realize I'm optimistic that August/September 2021 will work out for our big family trip to Europe, hence I have made sure the family knows we may be waiting until summer 2022 or beyond.

danmand - when travel is finally safe again, do you think you will enjoy more trips per year, to make up for lost time/opportunity caused by the pandemic?

No, I have traveled extensively the last 15 years to the extend that I have difficulty finding new places to go to.

I always told my family that "I want to travel while I can. A time will come when I cannot travel anymore" I thought it would be because of some illness on my part, not a virus pandemic.

 

[Darts]

Transport Minister Garneau said there will be no cash refunds because the airlines have no cash.

 

[blueray]

Transport Minister Garneau said there will be no cash refunds because the airlines have no cash.

Some believe that the airlines giving vouchers instead of refunds is okay and an acceptable response given the hardships the airlines are gong through. I disagree, respectfully.

A lot of pressure has been put on Marc Garneau and JT on this issue, even from their own MP's, most notably Nathaniel Erskine-Smith a Liberal MP from Beaches-East York. He responds to a citizens concern here:

Thanks for your email and apologies for the delayed response.
I agree that our airlines should offer refunds to people who have had their flights canceled. It should not be left up to the consumer to keep these companies afloat.
I’ve written to Minister Garneau directly to express this view, and highlighted the fact that the EU and US have better protected consumers. I also noted that Air Canada has spent $800 million in stock buybacks since 2015, including over $300 million last year alone.
In the end, it makes more sense for the airlines to seek financing in the market, or to have the government step in with support directly, than have losses backstopped by customers.
If you or anyone you know is going through financial burdens at the moment and are not necessarily aware of any assistance they might be entitled to from the federal government please do let me know and our office would be happy to assist where possible.”


Good for Mr. Erskine-Smith.

Again, your best option for a refund for cancelled flights is opening a credit card chargeback dispute (after the airline has refused your request for a full refund). Some airlines have not be responding to the credit card chargeback disputes, because they have no legal basis too. So, after 45 days of them not responding you have won your dispute and your credit card will return your money.

 

[blueray]

Forgot to add the picture.

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[Darts]

If not cash, the airlines should at the very least be offering transferable vouchers.

 

[G.D. Gentleman]

Everyone, did you see this announcement?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandra...nd-policy-and-adds-more-flights/#4a237917620f

Option One: A fully transferable Air Canada Travel Voucher for the remaining value of a ticket that will have no expiry date or;

Option Two: Passengers can convert the remaining value of their ticket to Aeroplan Miles, Air Canada’s loyalty program, and enjoy a 65% bonus point value.

To validate this article I did a bit of quick digging and found:

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/202...ravel-this-Summer-and-Expands-Goodwill-Policy


I will be looking into these options this week (assuming I can get through on the phone to them them, lol) and will share how it works out.

Cheers
G.D.G.

 

[Darts]

"Option One: A fully transferable Air Canada Travel Voucher for the remaining value of a ticket that will have no expiry date or"

This is what I have been saying (above quote). It will give the passengers a secondary market to "monitize" their voucher. Of course, the big question is what is a voucher from an airline that currently have no revenue worth?