Air Canada is going down
- Thread starter korean
- Start date
hehe - sorry but buying stocks in airlines at a time like this - war, and all airlines stuggling especially when it was known last week they were doing major layoff is a HUGE F-up. Just hope you can break out without busting. Just curious wanna play a game of russian roulette while you are at it - you go first
Though not there yet, AC deserves to go belly up, because AC deserted their patrons long ago.
Try airlines which always make profit, e.g. Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific Airways, or Thai Airways, & you will be convinced that AC should never exist as an airline. It is almost like choosing between a SP who offers GFE & another one with all kinds of restrictions. There is simply no comparison.
It is a real shame that AC is Canada's flag carrier.
Try airlines which always make profit, e.g. Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific Airways, or Thai Airways, & you will be convinced that AC should never exist as an airline. It is almost like choosing between a SP who offers GFE & another one with all kinds of restrictions. There is simply no comparison.
It is a real shame that AC is Canada's flag carrier.
dragondick said:
You name three carriers that do not have any North American routes. Based on the carriers that operate out of Canada and the USA, I would much rather be on an Air Canada flight than a US Air or Continental. While it is true that international carriers are superior to AC, AC is probably the best of the rest here in North America.
AC’s situation is a real tale of woe.
It’s all because the Liberals forced AC to make really stupid business decisions for political reasons. AC is 13 billion in debt and they’re bleeding red ink. They’re under this crushing debt that they can’t support. AC was forced by the Liberals to buy Canadian airlines when they were about to go under. AC had to buy Canadian at top dollar, so no investor lost, assume all the debt, so no creditors lost, employ all the Canadian workers so no one lost their job and maintain all the flights so no one was inconvenienced. This is all warm, fuzzy liberal thinking all thought up by people who probably have never had a job in the private sector in their whole lives. These are the people who brought us the billion dollar gun registry. I’m blown away by the extreme stupidity of this government. They can’t even make a calendar and get it right and now they’re trying to run an airline?
What should’ve happened is AC should’ve been able to buy Canadian at a fair market value and merge the two airlines together. Yes, some investors and creditors would get burned and some people might loose their jobs but at least we would have a running national airline. Now, either we’re going to loose both or we have to fork out billions and billions to keep AC going. Some legacy Cretin.
I hope you can cash out with some of your investment instead of loosing it all.
It’s all because the Liberals forced AC to make really stupid business decisions for political reasons. AC is 13 billion in debt and they’re bleeding red ink. They’re under this crushing debt that they can’t support. AC was forced by the Liberals to buy Canadian airlines when they were about to go under. AC had to buy Canadian at top dollar, so no investor lost, assume all the debt, so no creditors lost, employ all the Canadian workers so no one lost their job and maintain all the flights so no one was inconvenienced. This is all warm, fuzzy liberal thinking all thought up by people who probably have never had a job in the private sector in their whole lives. These are the people who brought us the billion dollar gun registry. I’m blown away by the extreme stupidity of this government. They can’t even make a calendar and get it right and now they’re trying to run an airline?
What should’ve happened is AC should’ve been able to buy Canadian at a fair market value and merge the two airlines together. Yes, some investors and creditors would get burned and some people might loose their jobs but at least we would have a running national airline. Now, either we’re going to loose both or we have to fork out billions and billions to keep AC going. Some legacy Cretin.
I hope you can cash out with some of your investment instead of loosing it all.
Absolutely right Cinema Face.....bang on.
Another example of government stepping in a f@cking around with something they don't have any clue about. The government owned a majority stake in the airline at one time. After driving it into the ground they privatize it in the hopes of reducing Canadian's debt in the airline. Just when they started making money Air Canada is forced to buy Canadian and all its debt.
Where else in the world does crap like this go on.
Another example of government stepping in a f@cking around with something they don't have any clue about. The government owned a majority stake in the airline at one time. After driving it into the ground they privatize it in the hopes of reducing Canadian's debt in the airline. Just when they started making money Air Canada is forced to buy Canadian and all its debt.
Where else in the world does crap like this go on.
Cardinal Fang, you are off on the timing. AC was fully privatized by the time the Canadian thing came about. Remember it wasn't they but Gerry Schwartz who initiated the deal by offering to buy AC. AC counter offered to buy Canadian and the race was on to see who was the dumber buyer. Like most of Gerry's deals he had a limit and once the price was over this limit he dropped out. Most people don't remember for example he bid for Labatts and ended up being outbid by Interbrew. He did however make a nice profit on his offer and did the same on the AC deal.
Having said that I agree about the customer service thing. It has really gone downhill but when you remember that both Hollis Harris and Robert Milton, the last two Chairmen came out of US airlines you begin to understand the change in mentality. Back when we had Canadians running the company we had a truly unique airline that had made in Canada solutions to its problems. Now we have an imitation Delta airline that is going to shortly join Delta in bankruptcy. What we really need is fresh thinking in the airline and a return to customer service.
Having said that I agree about the customer service thing. It has really gone downhill but when you remember that both Hollis Harris and Robert Milton, the last two Chairmen came out of US airlines you begin to understand the change in mentality. Back when we had Canadians running the company we had a truly unique airline that had made in Canada solutions to its problems. Now we have an imitation Delta airline that is going to shortly join Delta in bankruptcy. What we really need is fresh thinking in the airline and a return to customer service.
WhOiSyOdAdDy? said:
They are fine!
Called Air Canada today to inquire about my tickets and was told that they would honour all tickets purchased.
I say that now and then........
After Worldcom filed for bankruptcy protection their stock was at an all time low. After thier resturcturing they imerged with a significant gain in thier stock assets. If you bought in at this time you would have found yourself with a net gain.
BY LOW SELL HIGH! What a concept.
BY LOW SELL HIGH! What a concept.
WhOiSyOdAdDy? said:
Hey I tried the same thing with Brex stock......
Still waiting for it to go up.....
Northyorkguy,
The problem with AC & other North American based airlines is that they tend to compare themselves with the worst & not the best. The world is getting smaller & smaller, as long as you have international routes, you must compare with international carriers.
If AC is as efficient & as profitable as the other money-making airlines, perhaps AC can even buy AA these days.
The problem with AC & other North American based airlines is that they tend to compare themselves with the worst & not the best. The world is getting smaller & smaller, as long as you have international routes, you must compare with international carriers.
If AC is as efficient & as profitable as the other money-making airlines, perhaps AC can even buy AA these days.
wooly110
Active member
Funny enough, i was thinking that it was time to buy some AC shares as well.
Thank christ i didn't. When it fell very quickly to 2 bucks i thought, uh oh, something is happening.
Now I am wondering about Bombardier. Could they be next?
AC will open tomorrow at about 20 cents.
Part of the problem as i see it is that they have to cut their labour costs. Pilots making 200 grand a year. Get real.
Try 50 or 60 grand a year, tops.
One thing is for sure, what emerges from all of this is going to be quite different.
It's no different than the railways faced 50 years ago. Back then, the idustry was dying and CN and CP both got out of it.
Eventually it finds its equalibrium.
I find it very HARD to believe though that the gov't would let them go broke.
Like it or not, this country is better with aC than without it.
There are just going to have to be alot of painful changes here and in the USA in the industry.
Thank christ i didn't. When it fell very quickly to 2 bucks i thought, uh oh, something is happening.
Now I am wondering about Bombardier. Could they be next?
AC will open tomorrow at about 20 cents.
Part of the problem as i see it is that they have to cut their labour costs. Pilots making 200 grand a year. Get real.
Try 50 or 60 grand a year, tops.
One thing is for sure, what emerges from all of this is going to be quite different.
It's no different than the railways faced 50 years ago. Back then, the idustry was dying and CN and CP both got out of it.
Eventually it finds its equalibrium.
I find it very HARD to believe though that the gov't would let them go broke.
Like it or not, this country is better with aC than without it.
There are just going to have to be alot of painful changes here and in the USA in the industry.
if you want to buy an airline stock, forget air canada and go for one of the non-unionised canadian or american players - like southwest or westjet - but even then, airlines have always been bad investments. someone caluculated that since inception, the airline industry has lost more money than it ever earned in profits!
i don't blame government for the problems - except that de-regulation is a factor here. AC is in bad shape because of high debt from the canadian takeover, plus declines related to 911 and the iraq war, combined with high fuel prices, and the fact that it is unionised but its competitors are not, and thus can undercut AC.
allowing a US takeover is no solution, as eventually it would mean the best jobs would go to the US, and eventually some flights between canadian cities would end up being routed through US hubs!
i do think the government screwed up when it allowed aC to take over Canadian. this country needs an international carrier, to compete with european and asian airlines. for flights between most canadian cities, however, AC should get out of the way and allow smaller airlines to compete, without the threat of AC using predatory pricing. the key is to allow any canadian regional carrier to feed into aC without discrimination...
i don't blame government for the problems - except that de-regulation is a factor here. AC is in bad shape because of high debt from the canadian takeover, plus declines related to 911 and the iraq war, combined with high fuel prices, and the fact that it is unionised but its competitors are not, and thus can undercut AC.
allowing a US takeover is no solution, as eventually it would mean the best jobs would go to the US, and eventually some flights between canadian cities would end up being routed through US hubs!
i do think the government screwed up when it allowed aC to take over Canadian. this country needs an international carrier, to compete with european and asian airlines. for flights between most canadian cities, however, AC should get out of the way and allow smaller airlines to compete, without the threat of AC using predatory pricing. the key is to allow any canadian regional carrier to feed into aC without discrimination...
Re: aeroplan points?
I am on the aeroplan, but never bothered with an Aerogold Visa.
Any time ANY credit card has a fee associated with it, especially a big fee like Aerogold, I say pass.
Whenever someone tries to give me a card, I always say, "Is there a fee?"
If the answer is yes, I say forget it. It just rubs me the wrong way because I KNOW that it is a scam. There is no reason in the world to have a fee on that card other than to scam you. They get a cut of everyone of your purchases, and if you don't pay your bill like clockwork every month, they nail you with rediculous interest fees.
The credit card companies are evil.
Not only will you loose all your points, you have been paying $125.00 a year as well for the right to just accumulate those stupid points. Half the people out there by the time they added up their stupid fees could have BOUGHT a trip somewhere for less.
I have the CIBC Dividend card which essentially gives me cash back on Jan. 1 of every year. Cash is king in my eyes. No fuss, no muss, no worries about any company going broke.
I guess those annoying aerogold visa guys in the airport won't be too busy today.
xyphy said:
I am on the aeroplan, but never bothered with an Aerogold Visa.
Any time ANY credit card has a fee associated with it, especially a big fee like Aerogold, I say pass.
Whenever someone tries to give me a card, I always say, "Is there a fee?"
If the answer is yes, I say forget it. It just rubs me the wrong way because I KNOW that it is a scam. There is no reason in the world to have a fee on that card other than to scam you. They get a cut of everyone of your purchases, and if you don't pay your bill like clockwork every month, they nail you with rediculous interest fees.
The credit card companies are evil.
Not only will you loose all your points, you have been paying $125.00 a year as well for the right to just accumulate those stupid points. Half the people out there by the time they added up their stupid fees could have BOUGHT a trip somewhere for less.
I have the CIBC Dividend card which essentially gives me cash back on Jan. 1 of every year. Cash is king in my eyes. No fuss, no muss, no worries about any company going broke.
I guess those annoying aerogold visa guys in the airport won't be too busy today.
