Advice needed for employment problem!

[train]

Re: You need a good C.A.

Good luck

You can still sue your boss.

Aslan is 100% correct on this . See a lawyer ( what do you have to lose ? ) , part of the settlement would include a letter of reference in case you need it . This sounds relatively complicated so best to get some professional advice but it sounds to me as if you could be intitled to severence pay of at least 6 months .

I have had to terminate middle to senior level employees for poor performance and unless you have documented their shortcomings over a period of time ( you almost need a lawyer to do this - lol ) there is always severence involved .

 

[papasmerf]

reality is ready
you need to learn that sometimes one needs do fire the first salvo

 

[BigGuy26]

Its your boss who was not honest with you about the details of the contract.

Its best to leave on good terms, train the new employee and walk away with a positive reference and find a new employer. Attempting to sue the company or boss for wrongful dismissal is not easy, and because of this contract situation, you probably don't have much leverage. Plus, are you prepared to pay up to a few thousand? to solve this? Its not worth it and worth the headache. Don't stir up trouble that could possibly tarnish your reputation for a very iffy case.

If you are as good as you say you are, you will probably find yourself a new job very soon and all of this will be behind you. Don't burn any bridges, what goes around comes around and it can be a small world in the IT field.

 

[papasmerf]

A contract may be best defined as the written affermation, of the metting of the minds, between two or more paarties. It will spell out what is expected and very often define performance. A contract must be agrieed to by, in this case both parties.

Either party have tre right of refusal in renewal and unless it is stipulated in the original contract, renewal is not an automatic event.

Most contracts when renewed bring about increased costs.

But in most casted you can get another contractor to work for the reduced rate carried in the older contract.

In an are where there is a glut of qualified applicants; this is an accepted and practical way of doing business.

That is why I stated to stay on at a substancual increse for a defiened period. Add a play or pay clause to that contract. You agree on 4 moths you get 16 weeks pay no matter if you work or not.

 

[aslan]

As far as you are concern, there is a life contract between you and your boss. You boss was not truthfulful when he hired you. That's the legal issue here.


As far as Smiles - you do not have a contract with them. You are an agent of your boss and your boss is an agent of Smiles and if you screwed up on your job, Smiles will sue Scum and Scum will steps into the shoes of Smiles and sue your boss.

Whether you want to take action against your boss or not its up to you. Mind you, your boss and Scum did make a profit from your service to Smiles.

Hope this experience can smarten you up. Taking your boss to court will not cost too much because most of these cases are settled out of court.

Call the Law society of Upper Canada where they can refer you to a lawyer for 30 minutes free consultation.

Again, print out my post and show it to your boss. He is in deep trouble.

 

[aslan]

I can't be wrong - legally

"Life Contract" is a legal term in Employment Law.

When there are no written contract and other verbal express agreement as to how long you will be hired. You have a "Life Contract".

I can't be wrong legally, but, you have to let your boss know that what he didn't tell you when you were hired was wrong on his part. Whether you want to take any action is up to you.

If you boss give you a pay check every week/biweekly/monthly and made all the payroll deductions, you are then his employee and you are working under a 'Life Contract".

Of course, you can forget the whole thing and walk. I am just giving you what you can do "LEGALLY".

 

[midLifeCrisis]

Aslan, I have a query.

It seems to me that the following facts will be agreed in any legal discussion:

• LoveThemGirls knew he was on a contract
• LoveThemGirls works in an industry where contracting is very common
• LoveThemGirls knew he was working for somebody who was also a contractor.
• LoveThemGirls has less than two years tenure in the position he is now losing.
• LoveThemGirls knew that his boss had exactly one client
• His boss has now, for whatever reason, lost his contract
• There is no more work

How much would you expect LoveThemGirls to pay in legal fees to pursue a claim?

How much would you expect LoveThemGirls to receive in settlement of his claim?

Given the non-monetary ramifications of pursuing a claim (e.g., he will never, ever work for that particular boss again; he will almost certainly never work for Scum Inc. again; his references from his boss and Scum will be as bad as they can legally make them) do you sincerely believe that commencing legal proceedings is a smart thing to do?

 

[Peeping Tom]

Not. I do contract work and in each case sign a clear document, often with the company laywer, stating what the assignment involves, the duration of the assignment and the mechanisms to extend it.

the boss can and will say..."this person was more than aware of the contract and give the dates"......now the employee has to prove it.....

yes verbal is a binding contract but bottom line is simply(and ill say it again) "he said, she said".......

 

[LoveThemGirls]

I like my boss, he has been very good to me and I consider him a friend, so any legal action is out of the question. I am still am employee of his, and we are trying to get other contracts, but this was our big one. From our conversations he was led to believe that our contract had a 99.9% chance of being renewed, as Scum USA has no limits on contract length and was doing their best to try to convince Scum Canada to make an exception in our case as both USA and Smiles were very happy with our work. Unfortunately it seems that the Canadian side runs things differently than the USA side, perhaps it's the tax differences or just the inefficiency of Canadian business, who knows, I'm not in a position to argue.

I know that it will very difficult to find two guys who have the mobility and desire to drive to the sites which have locations in Toronto, 1 1/2 hours west of Toronto, and in Montreal.

If anyone needs someone to set up a small office network or someone to perform periodic maintenance on computers (home and office) give me a call. Thanks for all the input.

 

[aslan]

Midlife- you made one assumptions on top of another.

Lovethemgrls has no idea about the 2 year contract when he was hired.

He may know it the next day.

Anna- what about he/she said. Have you seen any murder case where the defedent put things in writing ??

The truth can come out by examination. I still sauy more cases are settled out of court then ended up in court.

 

[midLifeCrisis]

Midlife- you made one assumptions on top of another.

Lovethemgrls has no idea about the 2 year contract when he was hired.

He may know it the next day.

I never said he did know about the "2 year" part ... I just said that he knew he was on "a contract" and that this fact would be agreed in the first exchange of expensive lawyer's letters.

Originally posted by aslan
I still sauy more cases are settled out of court then ended up in court.

I don't think that's in dispute. I'm just asking for your estimate of how much you think the settlement will be worth and how much it would cost to get it... two year's tenure in a contract position in the computer industry for a young guy when his employer has lost his own contract... c'mon, aslan, what'll that be worth? In dollars and cents!

 

[Mrs_Stiffler]

My new unemployment status was something similar. I was on contract for this company in the finance industry for close to two years. My contract termination was due to the downturn in the markets however. But when I was hired I was supposed to be on a 6 month contract, with an automatic status change to permanent. Companies seem to be moving in general to contract work - no benefits, no long-term commitment, less HR headaches. Society is becoming more and more temporary focused.

Anyone have need of a sexy administrator? My day's are wide open.

 

[learningtoplay]

Have you contacted labor canada about your working condiitons? I would fight the SOBs. If you are doing your job to your employers and client's satisfaction with no performance issues and they are replacing you with somebody else strickly because of some 2 year cap of contracts, that is not only unethical but to me unlawful.
I would challenge this.
Many companies are outsourcing their work to third party providers. To smooth over the transition, they say the new company will hire the outsourced employees. Bottom line, the employees are paid less, recieve less benefits and are subject to much harsher working conditions. The auto industry, insurance companies, banks, utilities and the government are all doing this and it is simply unethical treatment of the workforce

 

[aslan]

Midlife- another assumption again

He only knows he was hired by his boss. He thought he will be working for his boss. No lawyer in the world can disbute that.

As to the contract - well. his boss didn't tell him his contract is "CONTIGENT" or a "CONDITION PRECESSDON" (BOTH ARE LEGAL TERM} upon Scum getting a renewal of contract from Smiles.

Whether he knows he was working on a contract that was between who and who is irrelavant in this case. His only recourse is from his buddy boss. Which he has said he will not do.


I should have go for that not so hot chick and followed her to law school.

 

[midLifeCrisis]

Midlife- another assumption again

He only knows he was hired by his boss. He thought he will be working for his boss.
...
Whether he knows he was working on a contract that was between who and who is irrelavant in this case.

Originally posted by LoveThemGirls
I am not an employee of this company, but work under contract for the company that they outsourced their support to (let's call it Scum inc.)

Originally posted by LoveThemGirls
Despite many meetings etc. explaining how unprofitable it would be to bring in someone to replace me they have decided not to renew my contract.

My only assumption so far is that others are familiar with the original post.

According to LoveThemGirls, his contract is not being broken, it is simply not being renewed.

It might, just possibly, be remunerative to get lawyers involved and get, at the outside, a month's pay as severance. I strongly doubt that, however. It's my guess that getting lawyers involved would

• Piss everybody off and harm his future career.
• Get him no money whatsoever
• Leave him stuck for legal fees of about $1,000 for a consultation and one or two letters

Since you think legal action is such a good idea, aslan, you obviously have other ideas. What are they? How much do you think he could expect to get? How much would he be left with after fees?

You've accused me of making unwarranted assumptions and this has made me cry and caused irremedial damage to my self-esteem. Can I maybe sue you for a couple million?

 

[train]

[*]Leave him stuck for legal fees of about $1,000 for a consultation and one or two letters
[/list]
You've accused me of making unwarranted assumptions....

I think that the point of getting some legal advice is so one doesn't have to make assumptions . I doubt it would cost $1,000 for a simple "...do I have a case and if so what could I expect " consultation . You may even be able to get that for free .

No offense to anyone here but any advice derived here needs to be tempered with expert opinion .

 

[papasmerf]

I think that the point of getting some legal advice is so one doesn't have to make assumptions . I doubt it would cost $1,000 for a simple "...do I have a case and if so what could I expect " consultation . You may even be able to get that for free .

No offense to anyone here but any advice derived here needs to be tempered with expert opinion .

Pretty fair advice

But does one go for a contract lawyer or labor lawyer???


Contract empolyees here don't even have taxes with held. They are truely independant contractors.

One thing the labor department uses to determine status is that along with some other stuff like setting of hours.

 

[Rezdog]

Re: Contract Woes

PS. Been there, in December of '02 as a matter of fact. They hired several individuals after non-renewal of my contract. I suspect there was something deeper going on but got the BS and on my way I went. I did not stay to train others, nor would you be obligated to. It's you're choice to stay and train, but i'd be asking for a contract extension and the same salary rate for the term. If you want a lawyer to investigate, PM me and I'll suggest someone whose worked for me in the past.

 

[aslan]

But I am not in this situation

You read the thing wrong again

The company he mentioned is Smiles- yes under a contract between Scum /Smiles. His boss who hired him is not the Company. His boss may have his little company and hired him.

I read leagl documents and laws every day, I know what I had read. you don't have to copy it.

I had never suggest legal action is the best. But letting his boss aware what he did would help both understand the situation. At leaset his boss will come clean with any future employee and by the way, some one has learned a lot from these posts.


The issue can only be decided by the original poster, he wants to walk, then walk.

I am jsut stating the legal rights, but its not up to me to decide what to do. Everyone are born with a bundles of right in this society. whether you want to excise it is entirely up to you.


But I do not have all the facts to answer your question about what would you get from suing ??

I have to IMAGINE to answer your question.

What if he has another 10 year contract that he has to reject to take this job? ( he was not aware the implication of the contract when he was hired by his boss) Well, one imagination is enough.



If I am in this situation, I would just walk.

 

[Hollywoodladies.ca]

At best by suing, you could end up with a wrongfull dismisal settlement....and a nasty reputation in the industry that you works in. If there is no way to renegotiate your contract, start looking for new work immediately. The best revenge would be to be able to say "I'm sorry I can't train my replacement for you as I've found another position!"

Just my 2 cents.
Steph