Acupuncture vs. Physiotherapy

[farquhar]

I have a pain in my left rotator cuff when I move my arm in certain ways. I developed it several weeks ago while weightlifting; and while it doesn't cause constant irritation, it will flare up again every time I lift weights (specifically Bench Press, Shoulder Press, Overhead Press, Rows, Lat Pulldowns).

I've done an X-ray and an Ultrasound; Family Doctor says they are both negative.

I suppose this is good news, as it means nothing too serious.

So now I'm looking at either Acupuncture or Physiotherapy. I wouldn't be covered for Physio under OHIP, and I have no Private Insurance.

I can get Acupuncture for $110/60 minute session; Physiotherapy, I'm not sure of the cost.

I'm leaning towards the Acupuncture option, but wonder what everyone else thinks?

I'm in West GTA.

 

[xix]

Pain can be cause by so many factors

Physical - try massage or physio
Emotional = talk to someone or yourself
Mental - meditate.

Spiritual - after the infection or pain has been there to long.

Acupuncture, then Thai massage, then deep tissue massage - repeat 2 times within 6 weeks.

See what happens and let us know.

 

[opieshuffle]

Phisio runs similar costs. I've had issues where I start with phisio and then hit acupuncture. In one case, the phisio even suggested seeing the acupuncturist first to "unlock muscles" so they could do their job better. Food for thought...

 

[Haggy64]

I have a pain in my left rotator cuff when I move my arm in certain ways. I developed it several weeks ago while weightlifting; and while it doesn't cause constant irritation, it will flare up again every time I lift weights (specifically Bench Press, Shoulder Press, Overhead Press, Rows, Lat Pulldowns).

I've done an X-ray and an Ultrasound; Family Doctor says they are both negative.

I suppose this is good news, as it means nothing too serious.

So now I'm looking at either Acupuncture or Physiotherapy. I wouldn't be covered for Physio under OHIP, and I have no Private Insurance.

I can get Acupuncture for $110/60 minute session; Physiotherapy, I'm not sure of the cost.

I'm leaning towards the Acupuncture option, but wonder what everyone else thinks?

I'm in West GTA.

I had extensive experience with both acupuncture and physio. In all likelihood you have suffered some micro tears in one or more the rotator cuff muscles, and or have some inflammation. In my opinion I would not waste money on either physio or acupuncture at this point. Take 200mg Ibuprofen 4x/daily and rest the shoulder for at least a week . Ice it 2-3 times a day for 10-15 min. After that, start with some low resistance exercises.. There are lots of exercises you can do at home with a resistance band you can by on Amazon or elsewhere.

if it persists, you could ask for an MRI although by the time you get in it’ll be better! If persistent pain after rest and limited resistance exercise, ask for a referral to a sports medicine clinic.

 

[jjz]

I had rotator cuff issues from playing tennis and I went with acupuncture, it helped.

 

[Hephaestus]

In this case because its a recent injury, you're better off with physiotherapy. The have tools like heat or ice and ultrasound machines and TENs to deal with the inflammation. They'll tell you which stretches and exercises to do to strengthen the area.

 

[reaper29]

I recommend seeing a sports medicine specialist. They can refer you to the right treatment. The last thing you wanna do is self assess as this may cause delays in your recovery.

I've had multiple rotator cuff injuries and have used physio, massage, and acupuncture for my rehab. Good luck man!

 

[angrymime666]

I currently see a chiropractor that includes in his service acupuncture and ems. It has worked well. However, it also could be that other muscles are over compensating because other muscles are under performing. A physiotherapist at least a good one should be able to detect unbalanced muscles movement/weakness and give you some exercises specifically to so work the failing area.

I have found that a multi therapeutic approach of physiotherapist to identify imbalances, recommend exercises, a massage therapist to reduce adhesions in the tissue and chiropractic has been very effective for me. It cost a bit more but if you are doing the exercises you should see quicker recuperation.

 

[Normscot]

I have similar symptoms. Started in my neck during my rowing exercise. Then other joints over time with other lifting exercises including what you’re describing and also at work. X-rays didn’t show anything at first. As time went on my joints started showing changes in successive X-rays. It was slow moving. I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis. Specifically it’s the degeneration of the cartilage between your joints. I was 35. I did a lot of heavy labour on the job and worked out in the gym since my mid teens. The condition for me I believe is genetic as it’s in the fam. More than likely my physical lifestyle sped up the process too said the doc. It can be managed to some degree but there is no safe fix. There are dangerous prescription drugs but you don’t want those. They’ll kill you over time. They do mask the pain though. You can move like a wet noodle on the shit. I’m much older now and live with pain everyday and have for many years because of my condition. I still exercise (not heavy, mostly calisthenics) because overall the pain is less than if I don’t. Everything ceases up if I do nothing. It doesn’t work. It hurts more. I use Aleve sparingly. Only on bad days usually when I’ve over exerted myself at work when I have to. I don’t use the prescription drugs anymore and didn’t for very long after a different doctor told me how dangerous they are. They sure worked good though. Heavy lifting and over exertion makes the condition worse. Resistance bands and calisthenics are part of my management routine to stay strong and fit now. Food choices are key as well they say but it’s not like I start limping after I have a steak. I do follow all the lifestyle recommendations to a certain extent to manage the condition. It’s all I can do. Hope it’s not the problem in your case but you may want to look into it because your issue seems persistent when you work out as you said. Neck, shoulders, and elbows are my worst affected joints. I did the same exercises as you. Everybody that lifts does. I still do but now it’s with resistance bands that are much lighter. And yes, like I said, it hurts.

You could try an experiment. Take two Aleve 3 hours before your next workout. Don’t eat heavy beforehand to make sure the Aleve gets into your system but don’t fast either. Then do your regular upper body routine. If it’s pain free you might have a problem with arthritis because the drug in Aleve specifically targets your joints. If you have a muscle injury of some kind Aleve shouldn’t have any effect. It’s only a theory but it makes sense. If you suspect it may be arthritis you should see a specialist. Like I said though it moves slow and may take time to diagnose. An MRI might be more telling. You can go buy one in Buffalo or wait months to get one here.

Best of luck.

 

[billie69]

I know someone who had shoulder issues and went for an aggressive massage called Active Release Technique (not the MPA kind!) and it helped him a lot because it breaks up the adhesions in the muscle.

There are licensed massage therapists who do this and books that show you how to self treat.

 

[Muchadoaboutnothing]

In this case because its a recent injury, you're better off with physiotherapy. The have tools like heat or ice and ultrasound machines and TENs to deal with the inflammation. They'll tell you which stretches and exercises to do to strengthen the area.

I was going to also suggest a dr ho machine. It really helps and you can get a holder so you can wear it around too. Massage physio and accupuncture (Tcm china trained ) I believe will all help.
hot versus cold. look into k tape and watch youtube videos to get exercises and how to tape yourself

 

[Muchadoaboutnothing]

I have similar symptoms. Started in my neck during my rowing exercise. Then other joints over time with other lifting exercises including what you’re describing and also at work. X-rays didn’t show anything at first. As time went on my joints started showing changes in successive X-rays. It was slow moving. I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis. Specifically it’s the degeneration of the cartilage between your joints. I was 35. I did a lot of heavy labour on the job and worked out in the gym since my mid teens. The condition for me I believe is genetic as it’s in the fam. More than likely my physical lifestyle sped up the process too said the doc. It can be managed to some degree but there is no safe fix. There are dangerous prescription drugs but you don’t want those. They’ll kill you over time. They do mask the pain though. You can move like a wet noodle on the shit. I’m much older now and live with pain everyday and have for many years because of my condition. I still exercise (not heavy, mostly calisthenics) because overall the pain is less than if I don’t. Everything ceases up if I do nothing. It doesn’t work. It hurts more. I use Aleve sparingly. Only on bad days usually when I’ve over exerted myself at work when I have to. I don’t use the prescription drugs anymore and didn’t for very long after a different doctor told me how dangerous they are. They sure worked good though. Heavy lifting and over exertion makes the condition worse. Resistance bands and calisthenics are part of my management routine to stay strong and fit now. Food choices are key as well they say but it’s not like I start limping after I have a steak. I do follow all the lifestyle recommendations to a certain extent to manage the condition. It’s all I can do. Hope it’s not the problem in your case but you may want to look into it because your issue seems persistent when you work out as you said. Neck, shoulders, and elbows are my worst affected joints. I did the same exercises as you. Everybody that lifts does. I still do but now it’s with resistance bands that are much lighter. And yes, like I said, it hurts.

You could try an experiment. Take two Aleve 3 hours before your next workout. Don’t eat heavy beforehand to make sure the Aleve gets into your system but don’t fast either. Then do your regular upper body routine. If it’s pain free you might have a problem with arthritis because the drug in Aleve specifically targets your joints. If you have a muscle injury of some kind Aleve shouldn’t have any effect. It’s only a theory but it makes sense. If you suspect it may be arthritis you should see a specialist. Like I said though it moves slow and may take time to diagnose. An MRI might be more telling. You can go buy one in Buffalo or wait months to get one here.

Best of luck.

I just started trying aleve for the first time in my life last month and have found it works better than Advil and Tylenol for me. Not sure what the difference in ingredients is but it helps.
you’re the fourth person who has mentioned mri in buffalo. Is this a new thing ?!

 

[Normscot]

I just started trying aleve for the first time in my life last month and have found it works better than Advil and Tylenol for me. Not sure what the difference in ingredients is but it helps.
you’re the fourth person who has mentioned mri in buffalo. Is this a new thing ?!

It’s not a new thing. Health care is privatized in the US. It’s a business. Because of this, medical service “companies” offer every health service under the sun. Including MRI. Google MRI Buffalo. You’ll get several hits. Providers list services and fees online. Of course you have to pay. No Canadian insurance is going to pay for you to get an MRI in the US. Pricing is reasonable if you ask me. You can always wait months in Canada and get it free if you can get your doctor to give you a referral for the procedure. Down there you see a Doc at a clinic and tell him you want an MRI. Then go for the procedure. You pay both the Doc at the clinic and the MRI provider. You’ll have to check pricing but under $1000 all in is likely. You can do the same in Canada for several thousand dollars or free if you’re willing to wait to do it through insurance.

Once I had an MRI here where I waited about a month for the procedure. Some people would say that ain’t bad for Canada because there’s horrible stories of 3 month waits. I’ve waited months for Dermatologists up here as well which is another specialty you can get “on demand” in the US.

You can get whatever you want down there as long as you have the cash. And it’s not all crazy prices. That’s a misconception because there’s a major nuance. HOSPITAL care is crazy pricing. Yes absolutely it is. You want to avoid hospitals like the plague. But going to see a Doc at a clinic is not. There’s a very reasonable franchise type clinic operation in the US called Urgent Care. Very reasonable pricing. You can be in and out of one of those clinics in an hour with a referral in your pocket for $200. Then on your way to booking an on demand MRI for $500. Possibly all in the same day. Try that in Canada.

In OP’s case I would try his Doc again since he’s already been sent for other procedures. Maybe Doc will refer him an MRI to continue his diagnosis. Maybe he will receive it within a “reasonable” amount of time. Maybe Doc will refuse and say “I already sent you for two tests with no results”. Because he’s an average Doc that diagnoses with a text book instead of investigative medicine. Maybe that’s what a lot of Canadian Doctors are. Book smart but real world naive. Maybe he’s constrained by available services here. Or maybe he’s just overworked and playing the odds. Or maybe he’s just banging you in and banging you out of his office and he’s done and has moved on. Who knows. At the very least it will all be free no matter what happens.

I was ranting about Doctors here and I apologize. As I age I require more visits with Doctors and it’s become frustrating because they really come off as clueless sometimes. I’m positive they’re only half listening to me as they bang away on the computer waiting for AI to tell them what to do. It’s a shit show here these days. If you’re lucky you have a great Doctor and aren’t having the same experience. But I know many people are.

Anyways if the Doc craps out there’s Buffalo for a thousand bucks.Those are his two realistic options for MRI. Or he can plod along with different physio’s and treatments that some members have mentioned here and hope that one of them is the solution to his problem. I’m not saying they’re bad ideas. It will be trial and error. The MRI is the same. Trial and error. But it will offer a better look specifically at the cartilage in his joints rather than the X-rays or ultra sound. He may have to go more than once to gauge deterioration over time.

His problem is still undiagnosed. And that is what he truly needs. A diagnosis. It’s not an easy one. MRI might help to obtain one. He will have to continue pursuing that diagnosis if he wants to realize a solution whether the solution happens to be treatment or management.

 

[luvs2play]

When I had a rotator cuff injury Bench Pressing. I specifically looked for a Chiropractor that did ART (Active Release Therapy). Chiro also used acupuncture.

There are also some exercises you can do to tighten the shoulder. Will try to describe.

1.) Arm at 90 degree angle and somewhat parrell with shoulder. Push hand in against wall and hold.

2.) Same with elbow and arm raised Darrel to top of shoulder. Push elbow against wall or door jam and hold.

Door jams work. I would do them throughout the day as part of rehab.

 

[JackBurton]

I’ve done both at the same time for an injury. I find the acupuncture is a compliment to the physio.

 

[Jami77]

I had a fully frozen shoulder - couldnt move my arm up without shooting pains down my arm. Read a book by a US surgeon - I forget the title but basically throw a towl over a pull up ba, grab it and pull, keep doing this few days until you get the full deep stretch - it hurts but after a month my frozen shoulder had gone.

Surgeon said we were basically monkeys who should be hanging from bars or trees all day, but we dont hand so the muscles get all knotted up - someone mentioned ART earlier - I had that too from the local proper massage place - but Im sure it was the pull up bar that fixed everything

 

[billie69]

I had a fully frozen shoulder - couldnt move my arm up without shooting pains down my arm. Read a book by a US surgeon - I forget the title but basically throw a towl over a pull up ba, grab it and pull, keep doing this few days until you get the full deep stretch - it hurts but after a month my frozen shoulder had gone.

Surgeon said we were basically monkeys who should be hanging from bars or trees all day, but we dont hand so the muscles get all knotted up - someone mentioned ART earlier - I had that too from the local proper massage place - but Im sure it was the pull up bar that fixed everything

The pull-ups help big time.

Even if you can’t “hang” it will even help if you keep your feet on the ground and grab the overhead bar and hold for a while.

Then you can work your way up to regular hangs.

Joe Rogan talks a lot about the benefits of hanging.

 

[Jami77]

I found the book -

Shoulder Pain? The Solution & Prevention: Fourth Edition, Revised & Expanded Paperback – Illustrated, Nov. 15 2019
by John M Kirsch M D (Author)

I mean in a nutshell it says hang from a bar. But if you want the details get it. They were going to operate on me - this saved me.

 

[dirkd101]

I recommend both. While physio is covered, add some acupuncture in there. I've done this in the past with good results.

 

[Muchadoaboutnothing]

I recommend both. While physio is covered, add some acupuncture in there. I've done this in the past with good results.

Physio Accupuncture and massage usually share the same sad $300 max a year category. There are some community acupuncture places in the city you could check out Also try massage schools for discounted rates