Acupuncture, Cupping? It's all B.S.

Carrie Moon

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Unforunately, it is. I have read some of the textbooks they use at the Ontario College of Naturopathic Medicine, where they teach Ontario's naturopaths, and they read like a small child wrote them, they are not based on any kind of principles or logical consistency. And Naturopaths as a group are very resistant to studies that might prove or disprove their effectiveness.
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Now that is complete bullshit. Textbooks like Gray's anatomy and merck manual?

I failed biochemistry in OCNM intially (now called CCNM) and had to go to a PhD student at U of T for tutoring. She claimed what I was studying was 4th year university level biochem. Believe me it frustrated me to no end that I had to work that much harder to pass my boards for this one particular subject I had difficulty with.. but if you think you know the curriculum is child's play you're completely full of shit. Having attended Queen's university for my undergrad in pre-med I can fully attest that OCNM was a hell of lot harder.

Here's the course curriculum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathic_medical_school

As for studies to prove effectiveness and consistency.. again I call bullshit! That's a huge part of advancing the recognition of the program.
 
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Adrenaline

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Now that is complete bullshit. Textbooks like Gray's anatomy and merck manual?

I failed biochemistry in OCNM intially (now called CCNM) and had to go to a PhD student at U of T for tutoring. She claimed what I was studying was 4th year university level biochem. Believe me it frustrated me to no end that I had to work that much harder to pass my boards for this one particular subject I had difficulty with.. but if you think you know the curriculum is child's play you're completely full of shit. Having attended Queen's university for my undergrad in pre-med I can fully attest that OCNM was a hell of lot harder.

Here's the course curriculum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathic_medical_school
The next logical question is... how did you go from being a naturopathic doctor to a porn star and are there more people like you out there? :)
 

Carrie Moon

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The next logical question is... how did you go from being a naturopathic doctor to a porn star and are there more people like you out there?
long story... I was licensed and worked very hard to get my license.. but now frankly I'm a lady of luxury.

Actually there are!
I'll have to list them later.. but one is not so much a porn star anymore but still an escort. Just can't recall her name at the moment. She used to offer holistic treatments with her visits.
 

Carrie Moon

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To be frank, don't you agree it should be harder! An undergrad degree is NOT meant to qualify you as a primary practitioner who makes decisions and gives advice regarding people's medical health.
what part of undergrad don't you understand? Of course it doesn't qualify you to be a primary practitioner. It's the undergrad!!!

4 years of post-graduate medical school and passing NPLEX board exams qualifies me.
 

Carrie Moon

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The next logical question is... how did you go from being a naturopathic doctor to a porn star and are there more people like you out there? :)
I can't find her site now.. but after just being with one of my regulars for over an hour.. he helped me get my mind off of it and now I recall!

it was scandinavian blonde beauty or something like that. Kelly Simonsen. (not sure of spelling) but she was also a naturopath/porn actress/escort who came up from the US to Montreal regularly. We spoke on email some years ago and then never met.
 

C Dick

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Now that is complete bullshit. Textbooks like Gray's anatomy and merck manual?...
We will have to agree to disagree then. I also met some of the people that attended OCNM, some were smart people, but most were very, very wacky ones, lots of people with severe reality issues.
 

BoringBob

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I had accupunture many moons ago to releive pain from typing and holding a computer mouse all day. The treatment was a combination of assisting flow and also direct treatment in the area affected.

To this day, I no longer have that sort of pain.
 
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All folk medicine have some validity to it. There are medicinal properties in many plants in the forest and jungles. The active ingedient in many pharacuiticals are retrieved from nayure and many are now synthysized in the lab but are essentialy the same drug. Fifty years ago accupuncture was considered voodoo, but now is recognized as having real benefits.


wWw
 

djk

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the hobby needs more capitalism
Well, all I can tell you is that I had a friend who had severe arthritis. Severe. Crippling.

The ONLY relief they experienced was through acupuncture.

Yes, the possibility was discussed that it was a placebo effect. But the upshot was, for this person it was the only relief short of mind-numbing doses of pain killers.
I had a similar situation. The acupuncture worked for me until I got approval from insurance to use a drug. The person that did it worked at a hospital, in the physiotherapy department.

I don't view it as a "cure for all" like others but it definitely did work for me.
 

Protege

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For those that do believe in acupuncture...can you recommend a good practitioner, especially in the western gta (ie. Mississauga, Oakville, Brampton area)? I've been trying to find ways to fight my migraines, and "western medicine" actually make it worse sorry to say - and yes it's prescribed by a neurologist. Thanks-a-bunch.
 

d78

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Acupuncture & Cupping are effective providing that

the practitioner knows what she is doing. what I heard from my friend, whose grandpa was a traditional chinese doctor, those things takes minimum 10 years of practice to qualify someone as an independent practitioner, and you need keep doing this for at least a year to see the effect. not just one or 2 visits. however, the one you have visited, probably only pass some Ontario practice exam, just like a G1 writting exam. 99% of those chinese theraputic massage parlor here are simply BS, they will recommend you to do cupping and acupuncture whenever you go in for a massage, because in that way, they can sit down relax, they can do 3 - 4 people cupping/acupuncture at the same time, while if you go for massage, they can only do 1 at a time. you see the trick? time is money. besides, they get a break. so don't ever take acupunture/cupping here, just massage.

most of those places offer some side dishes, you know what I mean, which you can put on your insurance, which is not that bad, covered bj/hj, by covered I mean covered by your insurance :D
 

Carrie Moon

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We will have to agree to disagree then. I also met some of the people that attended OCNM, some were smart people, but most were very, very wacky ones,
so what? many regular physicians I've met are ''wacky''. What's your point? Know any ''Wacky" lawyers, mechanics or hairdressers?
Sorry once again to burst your bubble regarding the textbook issue.
It's not a matter of opinion. In fact it is libelous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

lots of people with severe reality issues.
Are you suggesting most are mentally ill? Because there you once again maybe considered to have a libel issue on your hands. Might have to check with a lawyer on that.. I'm not one so can't comment for certain.

I suppose I went through 4 years of pre-med at one of the most prestigious schools in the country and spent another 4 learning to color within the lines...
 

Carrie Moon

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Thus the fact that it SHOULD be harder. That's my point. You mentioned how much harder it was & to me that seemed as though it should be obvious.

When did I say you were unqualified as a primary practitioner within the scope of practice of a ND??? I in no way implied that, and that should be obvious if you read my initial post.
actually it wasn't obvious...and if you re-read it you could probably see how I misinterpreted it. I was being defensive so I wasn't reading it correctly. Thanks for clearing that up as well as being in my corner. I'm even more passionate about helping people get well than I am about getting them off.. so forgive my reaction.

Haters like the two jerks on here piss me off royally.. but I forget.. that



so off I go to enjoy my sunny day while it's still sunny.
 

Patch Adams

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Haters like the two jerks on here piss me off royally.. but I forget.. that

"Just pretend that I have hurled a suitable ad hominem insult at those who think differently, after all that is the terb way. :p"

The subject of health is so vast that there are overlaps into areas that have nothing to do with drugs and surgery.

In North America the best thing anyone can do for their health is the well known reasonable diet, some daily exercise, do not smoke, get sufficient sleep, reduce stress and eliminate any obvious problems such as drug or alcohol abuse. Those obvious steps would massively reduce illness, but they are still not done by a great many people.

In developing nations basic sanitation, food, water and public health education (use a condom even if the Pope says not to) would reduce a lot of deaths.

Are these natural cures or just what is now taken as common knowledge?

I have a different opinion than Carrie. That does not make either of us liar's or bad people. No matter what my opinion is of a specific treatment, drug, procedure or line of thought concerning medicine I will still treat Carrie's opinion with the serious thought it deserves since she has studied extensively in this particular field.

When I see sham cures sold to cancer patients who are grasping at straws to live another few weeks then I get flat out angry. Those are the charlatans that need to be gaoled. Some of them carry licenses from the mainstream medical community such as the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons (google is your friend for details). Those are vile members of our community that should be dealt with harshly. For example, a child is dying of cancer and Dr. X has the parents pay in cash for a treatment that is not any recognized health care organization. The child died and Dr. X was gaoled briefly (that happened here in Ontario).

There also needs to be a recognition of the difference between correlation and cause. For example, this week it was reported that the more a child eats candy while young the greater the chance that they will end up in prison. What is completely missing is the obvious question, "Well is it the candy, or is it having parents who do not control a child that are the cause."

Bottom line is the guy who is trying to sell me dried monkey testicles to make a tea to cure what ails me is full of shit. Western medicine is not perfect and some of the dr's are crap. And there is a grey area in between where people seem to have some benefit but no casual understanding exists.

Sometimes laughter is indeed that best medicine but you can't claim tickets to Carrot Top on your insurance.
 

C Dick

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Are you suggesting most are mentally ill? Because there you once again maybe considered to have a libel issue on your hands. Might have to check with a lawyer on that.. I'm not one so can't comment for certain.
Are you suggesting that you are going to sue me, because you think I implied that OCNM students are wacky? That by saying that in my opinion, many of the OCNM students I met were wacky, puts me in legal jeopardy?

My opinion, based on my experiences, is that homeopathy is a scam, with no scientific basis. I believe that it is designed to allow its practitioners to steal money from foolish people who basically pay for attention.

That opinion is obviously different than yours, and that is fine. That does not make me a hater, nor have I libelled anyone. If you want to make your case about naturopathy, and convince people, go ahead, you were doing fine. But there is no reason to insult me, or threaten to sue me, because my opinion is different than yours. When you do that, it makes it appear that you have no valid arguement, so you are descending to threats and insults. If you stick with facts, such as your experiences at OCNM, it is more effective. I was starting to think that not everyone I had encountered from OCNM was crazy, because you were making some good points.
 

slydevil

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So my friend recommended that I try acupuncture. She claims that it makes her feel so incredibly relaxed, and it heals every ailment under the sun.

I went last week, and boy was I sorry. First of all, the needles did absolutely nothing, at all. Secondly, the cupping was just painful, and I had marks left on my back for days. All of this painful nonsense for $60. To top it all off, acupuncture is one of those professions where you're not really sure if the person doing it is qualified or licensed. I hope the person I went to was, otherwise my insurance won't cover it, that would be even more painful.

What a waste of time and pain that was. If you believe in that B.S. and the placebo effect does wonders for you, then kudos.
i believe accupuncture works better when you have something specific to be treated ie: smoking urges, arthritic pain, snoring plbm, etc.. my wife tweaked her back once, she went in unable to stand up straight and came out after one session problem solved. going in looking to feel more 'relaxed' or just better probably won't give you the desireed results.
 

luckyjackson

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Aug 19, 2001
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Whatever. According to what the original poster said, he tried acupuncture once, and decided it was b.s. That alone is enough to judge his comment as uninformed.
 

Adrenaline

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Are you suggesting that you are going to sue me, because you think I implied that OCNM students are wacky? That by saying that in my opinion, many of the OCNM students I met were wacky, puts me in legal jeopardy?

My opinion, based on my experiences, is that homeopathy is a scam, with no scientific basis. I believe that it is designed to allow its practitioners to steal money from foolish people who basically pay for attention.

That opinion is obviously different than yours, and that is fine. That does not make me a hater, nor have I libelled anyone. If you want to make your case about naturopathy, and convince people, go ahead, you were doing fine. But there is no reason to insult me, or threaten to sue me, because my opinion is different than yours. When you do that, it makes it appear that you have no valid arguement, so you are descending to threats and insults. If you stick with facts, such as your experiences at OCNM, it is more effective. I was starting to think that not everyone I had encountered from OCNM was crazy, because you were making some good points.
I agree with you completely. You know you don't have strong valid points when you threaten to sue someone for disagreeing with you and offering a different opinion.

There are plenty of websites, books, blogs etc. out there that bash homeopathy, chiropractic and other voodoo magic therapies. They present scientific fact along with personal opinions and of course there's harsh criticism against them by the quacks and charlatans, and I'm sure even threats of litigation, but they'd never win in court. Also, you'll see many of those charlatans "slander" western medicine, and drug companies. It seems that they love to dish it out, but cry foul when the same thing is done to them.
 

Carrie Moon

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Pointing out that something you wrote is libelous doesn't suggest I'm going to sue you. My point was that when you say textbooks are written so that they read like small children wrote them that is completely false as I said in the beginning and therefore libelous. Why in the heck would I sue you? You haven't personally said anything directly about me to threaten my career.

I really doubt the naturopathic school in Toronto or any in the US/Europe etc care what someone wrote on an escort review board either. I wasn't about to go alert them.

My point is that when you make statements like that that have absolutely no basis in fact you should be more careful.

Opinion is a completely different matter.
 

Carrie Moon

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Adrenaline and C Dick. I don't think I insulted either of you.

I did call you a 'hater' which by my understanding of the definition you are.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hater

as for the arguing on the internet joke that's as much a dig at myself as you.

Here's why...

My father (grew up in the war and felt the need to fight for everything) was someone who argued with me over everything and I work very hard on myself to stop getting into arguments with people who's minds are already made up.. but alas I fail sometimes and have fallen into that trap many many times. (hence why the joke.. it's a losing battle and neither wins in reality).

The silver lining in what some deem as useless arguments is that on an open forum such as this.. others who read it might actually learn something new. I wish I were as articulate in expressing myself in writing as Gen for instance.. but that's not my forte.

As well I'm not going to waste my breath trying to convince someone who is actually being a 'hater'.. when there are so many people I can share with that actually benefit from my knowledge.

The people I have been able to help are grateful and often ask me why I'm no longer in practice. Do doctors in regular western medicine get this same sense of gratitude and support? YES of course.. and many many are working in conjunction with holistic practitioners as well as being them!

Thank god for that.. Things have certainly changed in the last few decades and Canada is finally catching up to the rest of the world.
 
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