A two state solution?

[tompeepin]

As Cobra1 accurately corrected me, both in 1967 and in the Lebanon invasion, Israel attacked first preemptively.

Now the only possible solution towards any possible peace is a two state solution with the creation of a sovereign Palestinian state. One that should be rebuild with aid from the international community. Will Israel allow this? God knows that we all want a sovereign Jewish state, and a sovereign Palestinian state only seems fair.

The way I see it the wall should be built at or near the green line in the west bank and then the west bank (and Gaza) should be given to the Palestinians.

I guess we will see if Israel even cares to have peace (http://gush-shalom.org/thewall/thewall.pdf); and if the Bush admin cares about anything other than it's own ambitions.

 

[onthebottom]

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) vowed on Friday to use the next four years to help establish a Palestinian state, and he and British Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) said they would help craft a post-Arafat strategy for making it happen. "

I hope he follows thru - I'm sure Blair is pushing him - would be an amazing legacy for all of us.

OTB

 

[midLifeCrisis]

Will Israel allow this?

Will the militias allow this? That's a harder question.

 

[strange1]

I believe that Israel is commited to there being a palestinian state. The big question will be how much land it will have. Israel has no interest in gaza besides stability but their religous right won't want to get rid of "samaria".

It's a shame that this wasn't all settled in '48

 

[Ross Eyerie]

Wow! Bush never ceases to amaze... but at least this time... he's doing something worth while. That was a pretty smooth move Dubbya!! Wait til AFTER you win the second election to put the moves on Israel. Get the Jewish population's votes and then stick it to 'em!! That was brilliant!!

 

[danmand]

Wow! Bush never ceases to amaze... but at least this time... he's doing something worth while. That was a pretty smooth move Dubbya!! Wait til AFTER you win the second election to put the moves on Israel. Get the Jewish population's votes and then stick it to 'em!! That was brilliant!!

I wouldn't hold my breath, the US may need Israel more than ever during the next while. This is geopolitics, gentlemen.

 

[Ross Eyerie]

I wouldn't hold my breath, the US may need Israel more than ever during the next while. This is geopolitics, gentlemen.

Are you talking about the US ECONOMY needing Israel? You're probably right. But somebody's gotta settle that fuckin dispute once and for all.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Let them kill each other. To be honest, I'm sick of the whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict and I think they're all a bunch of illigitimate, pseudo-terrorist states.

Whatever.

 

[Ross Eyerie]

Let them kill each other. To be honest, I'm sick of the whole Israeli-Palestinian conflict and I think they're all a bunch of illigitimate, pseudo-terrorist states.

Whatever.

Where do you live on?? The moon?!? Check the history books buster! That area was Palestine wayyyyyyy before it was Israel.

 

[ocean976124]

Where do you live on?? The moon?!? Check the history books buster! That area was Palestine wayyyyyyy before it was Israel.

Not an independent Palestine. The last independent state in that land was Israel in 70AD since then its been controled by several empires through history with the last being the British...

 

[danmand]

Not an independent Palestine. The last independent state in that land was Israel in 70AD since then its been controled by several empires through history with the last being the British...

The unfortunate fact remain that some palestinians were moved off their land to make room for the new state of Israel.

 

[Don]

Where do you live on?? The moon?!? Check the history books buster! That area was Palestine wayyyyyyy before it was Israel.

And before that the Hebrews were there (before they were forced out) if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Don]

I believe that Israel is commited to there being a palestinian state. The big question will be how much land it will have. Israel has no interest in gaza besides stability but their religous right won't want to get rid of "samaria".

It's a shame that this wasn't all settled in '48

Isreal was willing to give over 90% of the West Bank and Gaza for a Palestinian state but Arafat also wanted 100% control of Jeruselem(sp?) and Israel refused. So the issue isn't if Israel is willing to allow a Palestinian state but as strange1 pointed out - how much land and which land is it. When religion comes into play, rational thought goes out the door. Christ (no pun intended) I wish Arafat took that deal in 2000 offered by the Israeli's at Camp David. The Palestinian people would be much better off today.

 

[strange1]

The unfortunate fact remain that some palestinians were moved off their land to make room for the new state of Israel.

I addressed this in the dead at 75 thread. It's not the simple issue you think it is.

 

[ocean976124]

The unfortunate fact remain that some palestinians were moved off their land to make room for the new state of Israel.

See: http://www.factsandlogic.org/ad_80.html
On the very day that Israel declared its independence, five Arab states invaded the nascent Jewish state. In fiery broadcasts and confident of victory, their leaders urged the Arabs to flee the war zone, so as not to impede the invading armies. Once victory was achieved and after all the Jews had been killed or had fled, the Arabs could return, reclaim their property and loot that of the Jews.

Things didn’t turn out that way. About 600,000 Arabs followed the call of their leaders and became refugees. About 200,000 accepted the promises of the Israeli authorities that they would not be harmed and that they would become citizens of the new state, with the same rights as the Jews. Hardly any of the original refugees are still alive. But those who claim to be their descendants (who astonishingly number as many as five million), clamor to “return� to Israel. With the single exception of Jordan, none of their Arab brethren have allowed them to settle in their countries and to become citizens. They have confined them to squalid refugee camps, supported by UNWRA (a dependency of the U.N. and financed mostly by the USA). Those refugee camps are seething hotbeds of hatred against Israel and are the sources for terrorists and suicide bombers.

 

[onthebottom]

Wow! Bush never ceases to amaze... but at least this time... he's doing something worth while. That was a pretty smooth move Dubbya!! Wait til AFTER you win the second election to put the moves on Israel. Get the Jewish population's votes and then stick it to 'em!! That was brilliant!!

I think Kerry got most of the Jewish vote.

OTB

 

[Peeping Tom]

^^

Which is really surprising, since Jews are now white and their interests hardly represented by the party of anti semitism. Well, there's still a problem, in that even if the Jewish vote shifts Republican, too many are in New York for it to have much of an outcome. But heck, at least it boosts the popular vote ...

 

[onthebottom]

^^

Which is really surprising, since Jews are now white and their interests hardly represented by the party of anti semitism. Well, there's still a problem, in that even if the Jewish vote shifts Republican, too many are in New York for it to have much of an outcome. But heck, at least it boosts the popular vote ...

Both parties are very pro Israel.

OTB

 

[Don]

Well, there's still a problem, in that even if the Jewish vote shifts Republican, too many are in New York for it to have much of an outcome. But heck, at least it boosts the popular vote ...

John Kerry won NY State by 1.2 million votes.

There are roughly 2 million Jews in NYC. If they heavily shifted republican (though highly unlikely), that could make things interesting.

 

[onthebottom]

John Kerry won NY State by 1.2 million votes.

There are roughly 2 million Jews in NYC. If they heavily shifted republican (though highly unlikely), that could make things interesting.

In fact, I would bet if you looked at the states with large Jewish populations these would correlate well with blue states.

OTB