$80 - $100 providers - any recommendations?

[Penelope@Mirage]

Penelope you have the right to blacklist anyone you want. But I can tell you that many people (including those who can afford very expensive escorts) will probably blacklist you. Not because of what you believe, but because of your bad-mouthing of escorts who charge reasonable prices. I think someone mentioned Rebecca (from the rosy board) that often charges 100hh and she provides one of the best services in Ottawa. I have never seen you but it wouldn't surprise me that she provides better service than you, even if she charges a fraction of what you charge.

p.s: you can blacklist me I don't care.

I feel that I've mentioned I already understand the repercussions of my actions, and am willing to face them. I actually wanted to post something a similar thread to a post you started ages ago about a girl who was easy to get so many services from. I refrained because I knew something like this because I knew of the repercussions and didn't want it to effect the agency I was with.
I have never said girls who charge less under perform. I have said many times a lot of them probably preform just as well as I do, if not better- if so, they deserve to be paid as much, if not more.
You can come to whatever conclusion you want about my services and time. I will not confirm nor deny my capabilities. I may be fantastic for someone else, and horrible for you, or the other way around. Not only are these things subjective, I get the feeling you may be making biased assumptions because we do not like one another.

To be honest and clear, you and Whiteman were already known to me, ages and ages ago actually. Neither of you are very well liked, and since we are on the topic, neither of you are permitted to see me. I am relieved we can make this clear here and now, despite how unprofessional it is. I was worried if either of you approached me and I said no, you'd do something to harm my reputation on this board. Now it is known that neither of you will experience my services.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

I always love when y'all try to figure out how much money we make. I don't know of a single person who sees anywhere near the number of bookings per day, consistently, that you all think we get.

But just for shits and giggles, let's look at expenses:
- Backpage ads are now up to $12 an ad. Some folks bump theirs more than once a day.
- Lyla pricing: ads are free, but to pay for a banner/ad space, it varies from $50-$150 per month.
- Terb: about $100 per month.
- Escorts-Canada: $60 per month.
- Hotels run about $100-200 per day, depending on city, location, time of year, etc.
- Incall spaces vary, depending on if the provider works from home (and if they have a second bedroom or host from the same space they live in) or if they maintain a space solely for hosting (and if they share said space).
- Lingerie, condoms, lube, sheets, towels, body wash, hair removal, nails, laundry, etc etc etc. These are ongoing expenses, not just a one-time expense. Lube can stain sheets. Condoms are not super cheap, although you can occasionally get not-shitty brands from public health/planned parenthood/etc.
- Photoshoots can range from $200-$500+++.
- Website design/hosting, costs vary depending on whether you pay for someone to do it for you or put the time in yourself.
- A secondary phone, depending on the plan, about $20-$40+ per month.

Yes, I make good money comparatively. However, I personally don't make a lot of money compared to what magic figures get concocted on these forums. Part of that is that I don't want to see multiple people per day; a good number for me is a few people in a week, although I do have school and a secondary job, and spend time volunteering (and I love that this allows me the time to do all of that AND have somewhat of a social life). That is also balanced by the fact that I don't have to spend a lot of money on advertising to get a higher number of bookings.
But WOW the numbers that get thrown out here make me laugh. And sure, especially if someone is new, it might be possible to see multiple people per day on a regular basis, but it would not be long-lived, either through burn-out (because if you're going to be high volume, you're going to either lower screening expectations, or just be physically/emotionally overwhelmed) or through the fact that the market can't support those numbers. Realistically, seeing 5 people a day x 7 days = 35 people per week = 140 people per month; let's just say that you get maybe a handful of repeat clients, that's 100 new clients per month. How many people in Ottawa (accounting for travelers) do you think see providers?

Exactly!

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

I personally do not like seeing more than 3 clients a day, and due to school, volunteering, and other obligations I work four days a week. What's the point of doing this if I cannot get into grad school?
I also like being refreshed, relaxed, and connected to my client- no matter the type of session. I could not stand being too tired at the end of the day for some clients, and I really preferred something more genuine and memorable. I love knowing my clients on a personal level, and having things to talk about, check in on, or excitedly talk about our triumphs at work or school. That's part of what makes this job amazing. My best clients are the ones that let me know when they excelled at work or get a raise, while I share my exam/assignment marks. Or talk about the pets, whatever! It's harder to remember details when you have a greater influx of people. This doesn't mean other SP's are bad, or worse. Some clients would HATE what I'm offering- so there are other girls for that. People run their business differently, and that's fine- it's a varied business for varied appetites But we should all be paid roughly in the same ball park, and all be able to make ends meet safely, while loving what we do.
I don't think many people truly enjoy making 60 to 90$ a half hour less for nothing, whiling working two to three times as hard. If you wouldn't, assume others wouldn't too.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

Wow Penelope, pls take it easy. I can't keep up with all your postings here and plus you are ranting in the wrong thread. People can charge whatever rates they want. Please respect that.

You seem very intelligent; however, most Johns do not like drama. We already have enough drama at home and work already. We just want to escape reality when seeing you girls.
Here is the Toronto thread for you to read and please feel free to make your comments here https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?436323-Poverty-Club-40-60

Everyone pls keep this thread on topic and clean.

Hello, thanks for letting me know. I will read it, though I don't think I will be posting on here or within that post. I feel as though I have said all that can be said. A big part of why I posted so much was to respond people who were speaking to me directly, as well as defend myself. Many personal shots were taken at me directly, regarding my personality and services. Everything has been fully clarified, and this is not a conversation you can 'win' or be commemorated for You're right- it has turned into a drama fest- something all of us try to escape.
I'll settle down. Again, thanks, I think for a lot of us emotions are running high.
-Penelope.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

Oh fuck do I have to get my crayons out and do the math for you ? Where is the TERB brain trust these days ? Obviously MIA. IF an SP charges $80 for a hh and she takes a 20 or 30 minute break between appointments she's making $40 an hour. Still with me ? That's gross. Still with me ? Ok then she has expenses she's had to incur. That comes off the $40 an hour. Her net is whatever her expenses are amortized over the number of hours she works so her net is going to be materially less than $40 an hour. Still with me or did I lose you ?

I agree with you, but if people aren't going to get it now they just wont. We've all explained it time and time over. When people are either really religious, have a really core set of beliefs, or really, really want to do something for themselves- they defy all logic and come up with any sort of justification to keep it so. Just look at Ken Cunningham and his creationist museum and attempt at building Noah's ark. He defies logic, and any sort of proof brought to him ( did you see his and Bill Nye's debate?). It doesn't really matter what's said, and I should have been mature enough to leave it at my first few posts. It's evident I wasn't going to change many people's minds. What I was saying was not revolutionary- I'm sure many Sp's have had debates like this time and time again, to various degrees on here.
I'm done with this. Thanks for getting it though. I'm sure a lot of people are happy to spend time with you.
With affection,
-Penelope.

 

[itd131]

Hello lovely. Thanks so much for being really logical, insightful, and interesting about your reply. Most of all, you didn't resort to childish self-promoting or bashing me as a person. While we are probably not friends just for talking on here, and you may dislike me- I've got to absolutely respect you. Reading your post gave me a lot to think about-.

1) You're right, and I forgot. It does seem like a lot of money. Especially when you assume someone can easily obtain 5-6-7 solid hours of work each shift. Then it seems like infinite amount of money. The reality is even busy girls at an agency,( I've been and seen other), or solo does not always mean many clients in a day. For myself and others I have seen as low as ) clients, and 9 or 10 clients in a day. (6+ clients seems to be an agency thing, but I could absolutely be wrong). Our money has to account for our expenses as well as days where is very slow. I know for sure in agencies it gets very slow around the holidays e.t.c You have to save money for those days and weeks. As well as for HPV/ hepatitis vaccines, and taking additional time off for STD tests too. Still, with all the risks this should cost a lot more than minimum wage. But you're right- I should understand that it is a lot of money for clients, just like an expensive dress or nice pair of shoes can be a lot for me too.

2) I think I clarified in a post that I absolutely do not think of myself as a high-end wallet and lower-charging escorts as 'shitty wallets'. I was comparing low and high end wallets to escorts being high-end luxuries to save for. "shitty wallets' were kind of like daily monotony or boring treats like food. I'm very sorry I came off unclear and more so if I've hurt anyone's feelings.

3) When you mentioned this I actually had no idea what to say- that's what makes you so smart and awesome. How was I, or anyone else actually going to say that? I feel the minimum charge should be what the lowest agency is charging, maybe a bit more because we have more daily expenses ( additional rent) and make less money than an agency because they have several girls working. This amount is much more likely to cover our working expenses, as well as our basic living expenses and allow us to have some savings. Going much lower than seems to cause too much variation in the market.

4) I absolutely agree with this and I think I touched based on it a tad. Many people are upset and concerned with how BBBj's are the new standard. When super cheap, all inclusive fees are the standard it puts pressure on everyone else to lower their rates, not charge for extra's ( which I find help prevent catching something- fewer people wanting to pay for CIM means less exposure). Lower prices also pressure others to lower their price. Not charging for Greek as well pressures more people to include Greek in prices, or the girls who only did it because of the extra charge will no longer do it- it's not worth it. This is indeed a concern for myself and other ladies.

5) I understand that, but it really bothers me when people compare humans to Wal-Mart, Nordstorm, or look at it as strictly business and getting the best deal. Very dehumanizing. It's also hypocritical- many people get upset over SP's treating clients like business only. For good reason too, it is dehumanizing. I don't treat my clients that way ( I really hope not, and hope someone mentions it if I do). So why treat Sp's that way?

6) I think in terms of prices, people are all over the place because they are trying to adhere to the requests for specials, full service, no extra charge e.t.c. Some people charge super low to get you in, then increase by 'extra'. Some girls set a price that encompasses extras, but are low enough to undercut people and get noticed. Others like myself go by agency standards and try to get paid what they already know ' they are worth. Some people charge low because their self-esteem is low. Some charge a lot because their self-esteem is very high. There are all sorts of models- it's not to say they all work. Or the reasons for them working are not innocuous and just 'good business'.

Thanks for your two cents. Again, it gave me a lot to think about. My word isn't law. I'm sure more experiences Sp's have different things to say.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Penelope.

I would respond but the insults are starting to fly and it seems like the tone of this thread is degenerating quickly to the point that I don't want to ad to it anymore. You have made your points quite clearly. I think those who are willing to be fair minded, and think about what you have said, have gained some perspective and learned a thing or two.

You seem pretty cool to me. One of these days maybe we can continue the conversation in person.

 

[OnTheWayOut]

and... oh, right... she got banned from the Rosy board! I've never been on Rosy, but I'm willing to bet they don't bust out the ban hammer for nothing.

You would lose that bet. One can get banned over there if their silly "council" gets their panties in a bunch or you say something to or about the wrong person. It's like a badge of honour to be banned from Cerb, nothing to be ashamed of! LOL You should check it out sometime ..... it's so stupid it's hilarious!

 

[KathrynBardot]

You mean Tracy? She is one Sp not 'othr girls"
Hmm... looking at her profile she... shamelessly self-promoted on another post, and put her foot in her mouth.. resulting in her being told off....
hmm.... she's clearly brown nosing here;only saying anything that is insulting to me personally, and not the argument, while not giving any reason why she charges so low other than ' she is not mean and cold like me'.
Maybe she works from home and has no other office. Maybe she has no post-secondary ( that's not a problem, but it is less of an expense.)
Hmmm.. no mention of how she manages her expenses just fine, while having her own phone... website.... apartment. Gosh, I have no idea how she manages with her lower prices because she just chose to insult me on a personal level and conveniently not mention her expenses.
and... oh, right... she got banned from the Rosy board! I've never been on Rosy, but I'm willing to bet they don't bust out the ban hammer for nothing.
Hmm... analyzing things all in all.... Wow! What a credible source!

Well, I've been banned from there in the past, so I guess I am not credible either...

Seriously, was this post necessary? Why the need for all these insults?

 

[out4fun]

Oh fuck do I have to get my crayons out and do the math for you ? Where is the TERB brain trust these days ? Obviously MIA. IF an SP charges $80 for a hh and she takes a 20 or 30 minute break between appointments she's making $40 an hour. Still with me ? That's gross. Still with me ? Ok then she has expenses she's had to incur. That comes off the $40 an hour. Her net is whatever her expenses are amortized over the number of hours she works so her net is going to be materially less than $40 an hour. Still with me or did I lose you ?

Yes, I'm able to follow. Your intelligence is far from mind blowing. I think the statement that was made was simply that his cousin would be happy NETTING $40 per hour. I don't think there was a reference to gross rates. If there was, I apologize. I have a pretty decent business acumen, so I assure you, I'm able to follow along with your assumptions.

 

[LikeRedHeads]

Oh fuck do I have to get my crayons out and do the math for you ? Where is the TERB brain trust these days ? Obviously MIA. IF an SP charges $80 for a hh and she takes a 20 or 30 minute break between appointments she's making $40 an hour. Still with me ? That's gross. Still with me ? Ok then she has expenses she's had to incur. That comes off the $40 an hour. Her net is whatever her expenses are amortized over the number of hours she works so her net is going to be materially less than $40 an hour. Still with me or did I lose you ?

ok may be she gets $39.50 an hour then? is that what you had in mind after buying some lube? oh wait she has to rent a hotel also cause she can't do it from home....
you are blowing up SP expenses just to make a point.
The idea behind my post is that it is silly to assume making 40hh (net) is underpaid; you must agree with me, otherwise you are living in a different world than most of us.

 

[LikeRedHeads]

I feel that I've mentioned I already understand the repercussions of my actions, and am willing to face them. I actually wanted to post something a similar thread to a post you started ages ago about a girl who was easy to get so many services from. I refrained because I knew something like this because I knew of the repercussions and didn't want it to effect the agency I was with.
I have never said girls who charge less under perform. I have said many times a lot of them probably preform just as well as I do, if not better- if so, they deserve to be paid as much, if not more.
You can come to whatever conclusion you want about my services and time. I will not confirm nor deny my capabilities. I may be fantastic for someone else, and horrible for you, or the other way around. Not only are these things subjective, I get the feeling you may be making biased assumptions because we do not like one another.

To be honest and clear, you and Whiteman were already known to me, ages and ages ago actually. Neither of you are very well liked, and since we are on the topic, neither of you are permitted to see me. I am relieved we can make this clear here and now, despite how unprofessional it is. I was worried if either of you approached me and I said no, you'd do something to harm my reputation on this board. Now it is known that neither of you will experience my services.

I thought you were smart enough to have understood that you were too expensive and therefore I will not see you anyway even if you begged me for it.
BTW neither me nor Whiteman is going to hurt your reputation because you already did it with this thread. I think Mirage are pretty happy you are not linked with them anymore, except your current handle name. You really should change your handle as you may be hurting their reputation as well with this thread.

 

[Hector17]

It appears that Penelopes' mentioning to Tolleman that:

"Thanks for getting it though. I'm sure a lot of people are happy to spend time with you.
With affection,
-Penelope. "

has really gone to his "white knight" head
As Shakespeare said "Methinks thou dost protest too much"

Sorry T if you dont like this take, but I have been a spectator on this thread and I clearly understood the broad strokes of the point O4F, and LRH werre making about after expenses income.
I think I did mention somewhere here that most other jobs include work related expenses (Cars, car repairs, gas, clothing, dry cleaning, parking etc etc)...big deal

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Penelope.

I would respond but the insults are starting to fly and it seems like the tone of this thread is degenerating quickly to the point that I don't want to ad to it anymore. You have made your points quite clearly. I think those who are willing to be fair minded, and think about what you have said, have gained some perspective and learned a thing or two.

You seem pretty cool to me. One of these days maybe we can continue the conversation in person.

I wouldn't mind that. Hopefully we would be compatible in other ways than this discussion though. Whether I see you or not , thanks for the thought provoking post. Again, you didn't attack me on a personal level, you didn't resort to straw-man arguments, completely twist my words, or cherry pick one thing out of a dozen points and blow it up as my main point.
It's really easy to see that things got very childish and unfair, but unfortunately you actually have to read a lot to notice it. Few people have time for that or will actually want too. I feel as though I apologized earlier for letting myself devolve to being terse and insulting. Apparently my small stint of one swear word, and indicating one person wasn't that reliable after she did nothing but insult me, makes me the biggest jerk on this board. Funny how that works.
Take care,
-Penelope.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

It appears that Penelopes' mentioning to Tolleman that:

"Thanks for getting it though. I'm sure a lot of people are happy to spend time with you.
With affection,
-Penelope. "

has really gone to his "white knight" head
As Shakespeare said "Methinks thou dost protest too much"

Sorry T if you dont like this take, but I have been a spectator on this thread and I clearly understood the broad strokes of the point O4F, and LRH werre making about after expenses income.
I think I did mention somewhere here that most other jobs include work related expenses (Cars, car repairs, gas, clothing, dry cleaning, parking etc etc)...big deal

He whitenighted long before that comment, and I made it clear it was unnecessary.
Alright, so we will have to agree to disagree then.
There is no 'winning of this argument, and there really isn't anything left to say.'

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

I thought you were smart enough to have understood that you were too expensive and therefore I will not see you anyway even if you begged me for it.
BTW neither me nor Whiteman is going to hurt your reputation because you already did it with this thread. I think Mirage are pretty happy you are not linked with them anymore, except your current handle name. You really should change your handle as you may be hurting their reputation as well with this thread.

I never said I was 'too expensive' you are playing this up. I guess you really needed to add ' I wouldn't see you if you begged me Ho Ho!', which is typical. I expected it. but I also expected you to act better and just laugh it off and do something more important than reply. We are now mutually very happy not to see one another, let's leave it at that.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

ok may be she gets $39.50 an hour then? is that what you had in mind after buying some lube? oh wait she has to rent a hotel also cause she can't do it from home....
you are blowing up SP expenses just to make a point.
The idea behind my post is that it is silly to assume making 40hh (net) is underpaid; you must agree with me, otherwise you are living in a different world than most of us.

I am not blowing up Sp expenses, they are very obvious expenses that have been made by myself and another girl. It's very convenient that I am the only one attacked for this, while another Sp had a very extensive list of her expenses. While I do not want her attacked, it's clear this post has been very personal for some time now.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

Well, I've been banned from there in the past, so I guess I am not credible either...

Seriously, was this post necessary? Why the need for all these insults?

I said 'analyzing things all in all' because she had other actions that clearly indicate she might not be the best person to get this from. You just having bing banned from the Rosy board did not mean you were not credible. You mentioned your fees, and didn't attack me. While we have not been on the same page for everything, we were on the same page about just how many expenses there were. You are also a high charging SP- I believe one that charges more than myself. That is why I only included Tracy-I believe the OP i replied too mentioned Sp's who charge low and disagree with me. I have also mentioned that she did nothing but insult me, and gave no indication of what her fees actually were- as a low charging SP.

She mentioned that because I can get exhausted mentally and physically from time to time I am a poor SP and should quit my job. You too have mentioned being drained from time to time. I don't see you making comments towards her for indicating that you should not be working because you are clearly not capable of doing well.

I sayone swear word, and I mention someone may not be credible because of their actions on a few forums, being banned from a forum, and that they completely avoid the topic and resort to insulting me and I'm the ultimate jerk who had no points within this thread? I've been attacked on a personal level many, many times while keeping calm, and I say something terse and a bit condescending , and add one swear word to a bogus answer and all I get is flack? This is very unfair.

 

[Hector17]

He whitenighted long before that comment, and I made it clear it was unnecessary.
Alright, so we will have to agree to disagree then.
There is no 'winning of this argument, and there really isn't anything left to say.'[/QUOTE

Nice for you to come on and help T, but for the record, I also understood your points....my point is you can understand the points being made by anyone, even if you dont agree.

We've all likely been "White Knights" from time to time (and that includes me), whether we've posted our feelings or kept them to ourselves, but I dont think that needs to result in sarcasm and suggesting fellow "hobbyists" are imbeciles.
The guys here are mainly trying to just help each other out with honest recos, and /or warnings.
If T is unduly upset by my reference, then sorry....it was just an observation.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

If you haven't figured it out, then let me make it clear for you: I was referring to the "low-rate girls" (your words) as "high-value girls", because I think that's a less insulting term to call them.


You somehow seem to think that the ones who charge less than you, aren't escorts? So what are they, if they aren't escorts?


I've been nothing but polite to you in this thread, if a little bit of basic logic gets you all flustered, and then out comes the potty mouth!

All I can see here is that you somehow think girls who charge less than you are also less legitimate than you. It sounds like you're a snob, simple as that.


If your job is so dangerous, then why haven't you hired yourself a bodyguard? Is a bodyguard part of your expenses? I didn't think so.

You've been doing nothing but twisting me words, so there is no point in responding any further.
It's sad you think that is logic. Obviously your response was very childish and silly- which is why I said one swear word. Oh god, I'm such an awful little potty mouth.
How many body guards do you know for hire, and would work for an a quasi-legal profession? Where is the money going to come from for that? This is clearly already expensive to do.
Your whole answer is very silly. You do know this, right?
Say what you want after this. I won't be responding.

 

[Penelope@Mirage]

He whitenighted long before that comment, and I made it clear it was unnecessary.
Alright, so we will have to agree to disagree then.
There is no 'winning of this argument, and there really isn't anything left to say.'[/QUOTE

Nice for you to come on and help T, but for the record, I also understood your points....my point is you can understand the points being made by anyone, even if you dont agree.

We've all likely been "White Knights" from time to time (and that includes me), whether we've posted our feelings or kept them to ourselves, but I don't think that needs to result in sarcasm and suggesting fellow "hobbyists" are imbeciles.
The guys here are mainly trying to just help each other out with honest recos, and /or warnings.
If T is unduly upset by my reference, then sorry....it was just an observation.

I've agreed to disagree with some, not all. No client is being chastised for being rude, sarcastic, outright insulting. It's unfair that after several pages and being bombarded by personal insults I let off one swear word, and get a little condescending and all hell breaks loose.
Curious, why do you keep saying T?